Valve to piston contact - 2nd opinions needed please.

[RSpilla]

Hi guys, just a quick one, ive bought a 2009 fiesta 1.4 petrol off a friend, its been in his garden for a few months, broke down and it wont start, so i got it for 200, engine would lock after 180 degrees turn on the crank either way, so i checked the timing and it had jumped a tooth, retimed it and it span well, tested the compression, zero on all four, could see light through the inlet port from spark plug hole, so i have whipped the head off and hes managed to hit all 8 intake valves on the pistons, the valves close but are about 1mm off from seating correctly, theres some light damage to the piston crowns, now what i want to know is it worth me buying 8 new valves and filing the piston damage down smooth, do you think i will get away with it?

Also there is a slight bit of resistance from the crankshaft when all pistons are evenly halfway down the bores, if you spin it fairly quick its fine, is this normal?

Thanks guys. Stay safe!

[Tdci-Peter]

5 hours ago, RSpilla said:

theres some light damage to the piston crowns, now what i want to know is it worth me buying 8 new valves and filing the piston damage down smooth, do you think i will get away with it?

Also there is a slight bit of resistance from the crankshaft when all pistons are evenly halfway down the bores, if you spin it fairly quick its fine, is this normal?

My feeling is that the crankshaft and conrods are strong enough to take that sort of impact without damage. The forces they operate at at high revs and full power are immense, I would say much bigger than the bending of those inlet valves, and the dents in the soft aluminium.

The crankshaft turning force needed to move the pistons against the friction of the rings will be a maximum when halfway down the bores, but it should increase progressively, then drop progressively once past mid position.. If there is a distinct and sharp point where resistance is encountered, then that would likely be wrong.

The amount of slack in the conrod bearings (big & little) is most evident at tdc & bdc, though on an 11 year old engine there will be some, so it is a matter of judgement as to how much to allow.

I would carefully inspect the camshaft and bearings for any damage, or bending. This takes the same hit as the crankshaft, but is not as strong.

From the photos alone, I would say you have a fair chance of success. One route, if the valves are expensive, might be a second hand engine from a scrap car, to nick the valves or CH out of. I did this with a Triumph 2000 many years ago, swapping the heads to cure a very badly burnt & distorted inlet valve.

[RSpilla]

Hi Peter, thanks for the info, i agree, it looks saveable, i'll post an update once repaired. Cheers.

[Milkman]

Make sure that the valve stems and pushrods are not bent. If there is no other damage you just may be lucky.

[RSpilla]

Can anyone tell me if the valves are the same size on all duratec engines, i have read the inlet are 35mm and exhaust 30mm, as im finding it difficult to source valves for a 1400 specifically. If they are i could probably get some cheap from a breakers yard, possibly even a complete head. Thanks.

[Milkman]

You would probably be best to acquire a complete cylinder head rather than just the valves, if you did get just the valves you'd need new ones as second hand would probably go but you'd have to grind them in but a complete head, after you gave it a good decarbonise would go straight on, even new valves would need a little grinding in to make sure that they seat properly.

[Hostahousey]

On 4/20/2020 at 12:32 AM, Tdci-Peter said:

My feeling is that the crankshaft and conrods are strong enough to take that sort of impact without damage. The forces they operate at at high revs and full power are immense, I would say much bigger than the bending of those inlet valves, and the dents in the soft aluminium.

The crankshaft turning force needed to move the pistons against the friction of the rings will be a maximum when halfway down the bores, but it should increase progressively, then drop progressively once past mid position.. If there is a distinct and sharp point where resistance is encountered, then that would likely be wrong.

The amount of slack in the conrod bearings (big & little) is most evident at tdc & bdc, though on an 11 year old engine there will be some, so it is a matter of judgement as to how much to allow.

I would carefully inspect the camshaft and bearings for any damage, or bending. This takes the same hit as the crankshaft, but is not as strong.

From the photos alone, I would say you have a fair chance of success. One route, if the valves are expensive, might be a second hand engine from a scrap car, to nick the valves or CH out of. I did this with a Triumph 2000 many years ago, swapping the heads to cure a very badly burnt & distorted inlet valve.

 

I agree with Peter, I owned an Escort RS turbo years ago. had a timing belt go but just caught on switch off . When I removed the head one piston had similar damage to yours and one exhaust valve was bent. I cleaned the piston top, renewed the valve, replaced and tested . All went OK I do realise your damage is four fold to mine but depending on cost ( second hand engine ) it might be worth a try , good luck either way.

[RSpilla]

Hi guys, thanks for the replys, much appreciated. Im going to repair it and see if it holds. Im having difficulty locating the valves, or even a cylinder head for that matter, for my exact model. There are plenty of 2002-2008 1.4 16v heads and valves around for sale, but my car is 2009, Also when searching the part number on my cylinder head  ( 8A6G 6090 CA ) Alls that i find is romanian language websites for the cylinder head, its strange. What i want to know is: Will the valves (or the head for that matter) from a 2002-2008 1.4 16v fit? or does it have to be the exact part number, I am having trouble finding out what the differnces are. Theres not much info on them. Many thanks for the help. Nik.

[Milkman]

Contact Ford UK and ask them.

[Tdci-Peter]

21 minutes ago, RSpilla said:

Will the valves (or the head for that matter) from a 2002-2008 1.4 16v fit?

At a very brief first glance, they seem much the same. Have you tried this site:

For 2002-2008: https://ford.7zap.com/en/car/54/no/14/1550/15369/66747/

For 2009 on: https://ford.7zap.com/en/car/47/no/14/1550/15369/66747/

[Me140]

Ignore the part number on the head and go by the engine code to source a 2nd hand head. The bloke in our local Ford dealer said Ford change part numbers just for the fun of it .You may have a hairline crack in a valve stem and know nothing about it until it is too late. The cost of valves might not be that much difference from a cylinder head.

[bear666]

On 5/2/2020 at 10:47 PM, Me140 said:

Ignore the part number on the head and go by the engine code to source a 2nd hand head. The bloke in our local Ford dealer said Ford change part numbers just for the fun of it .You may have a hairline crack in a valve stem and know nothing about it until it is too late. The cost of valves might not be that much difference from a cylinder head.

Think hes got it spot on there. Try take a good head off a scrap yard donor. If possible a known running engine. If take I think 18mm socket ratchet with you to crank engine in yard u can feel if it's a good 1. Pop plugs out if not already to relieve compression. I've got a saved CH in my van that I rescued from a valve problem like yours and I wish I hadn't bothered as now I'm pretty sure its cracked inside but if had got 2nd hand head probably be well on the road by now. If your not good at mental pictures use your phone pics as references in scrap yard. You may even find a good head on the beloved eBay already detached from its donor. Roughly your valves will be approx 10 to 15 each and a set of new stem guides is about 30 so 16x valves plus 30 will cost 190 - 270 plus labour but sounds like it's a self job. Good luck matey

[unofix]

38 minutes ago, bear666 said:

Think hes got it spot on there.

Well you're a bit late to the party, that was almost 4 years ago !!! 🙄