Timing Belt Idler Pulley Disintegrated... Timing Holes not Aligning... HELP!!!

[Stophen]

Hi All,

I'm really hoping someone can do me a huge favour and give me some sound advice!

For a while now i've been chasing down the fault which is causing my noisy engine sound on my Ford Focus Mk 2 1.6TDCi.

I finally decided to take a look at the timing belt and found that the belt idler had totally disintegrated (I'm surprised the belt hadn't snapped):

 

I'm going to replace this along with the belt, tensioner pulley and lower cover.

Unfortunately when I tried to align the timing holes on the camshaft and crankshaft they didn't:

 

The fuel pump sprocket also didn't align:

So what do I do when it comes to fitting the new belt? Can I just advance the two cogs that are out or is it as I fear more difficult?

I only rotated the crankshaft sprocket a few times so would rotating it more align all the holes?

Any and all help would be very much appreciated!!!

Cheers, Stophen.

[Stophen]

Oh, am I right in thinking that the timing marks on the fuel pump sprocket aren't vital?

[isetta]

I have done a timing belt on one of these. The camshaft turns at half speed of crankshaft. So the cam and crank should have the holes aligned once in every second turn of the crank. It won't change by rotating it more times. (assume you are rotating clockwise)

The diesel pump turns at a different speed and only alines the pin once in every three turns of crank, or is it 6.  can't quite remember. the fact that it turns at different speed and is just a pump to maintain a constant fuel pressure to the injectors (which have electronic valves on the tips) makes me think it does not matter about timing up the pump pulley. but why then does it have provision for a timing pin?   so I did time it up properly just in case.

to be more precise about your problem, the crank turns clockwise so is pulling the belt downwards where the idler wheel is. if you idler wheel has gone wrong and is not holding the belt far enough off a straight line it means it is allowing the crankshaft to be further clockwise from the camshaft than it should be. So if you push on the belt by the idler pulley pushing belt towards the tensioner it will bring the timing marks more into line. Hard to describe.  Or perhaps also it jumped a tooth where the failing idler wheel allowed some slack.  I don't think this indicates you will have a problem when you put the new parts on, just time it up properly. You might even notice it is running better if timing is corrected. 

Luckily this is an easier engine to do than the petrol ones as the cogs have woodruff keys to stop them rotating on the shaft.

[Stophen]

Thanks @isetta,

I did think that the fault of the misalignment was due to the disintegrated pulley.

I will try rotating the crankshaft to see if it aligns on its own but if it doesn't what should I do?

The alignment holes on the crankshaft aren't too far off so should I just turn that back (anticlockwise) until they align or turn a full circle clockwise to align them?

Thanks for your help!

Stophen.

 

 

[isetta]

Turn engine clockwise until you get cam and pump aligned. Take belt off and idler/ tensioner. Turn crank anti clockwise slightly to aline in. Put the new bits on. Turn the engine clockwise a few times and then check it is all still timed up properly. I don’t think you will have a problem.   The problem I had was getting the tensioner right . It kept turning when I did the bolt up even though I was trying to hold it with Allen key

[Stophen]

Hi @isetta,

Thanks for the instructions, I will give it a go and hopefully I will be able to align the pump and cam.

I am a little concerned as to why the idler disintegrated. It wasn't that old and was a genuine Ford part, any ideas?

@TomsFocus & @Albert27 , you guys have been very helpful and kind in the past, anything extra you add to @isettas advice?

Cheers, Stophen.

[Albert27]

56 minutes ago, Stophen said:

Hi @isetta,

Thanks for the instructions, I will give it a go and hopefully I will be able to align the pump and cam.

I am a little concerned as to why the idler disintegrated. It wasn't that old and was a genuine Ford part, any ideas?

@TomsFocus & @Albert27 , you guys have been very helpful and kind in the past, anything extra you add to @isettas advice?

Cheers, Stophen.

Sorry I missed this, I've been locked out my account for a while but thanks for the heads up 😄 

Nobody seems to know why there is a timing hole for the fuel pump, it's not part of the timing so don't worry about that.

Is there any chance you over tightened the idler?  What has actually happened to it - has the rubber outer wheel disintergrated? The belt looks in a bad way from it anyway!

If you line up the crank and pin it, then remove the belt and make a minor adjustment to the cam using a ratchet on the cog (clockwise or anti clockwise), line it up with the timing hole and pin it.  It's been two years since i did the job so please correct me someone if what I've suggested it not a good idea!!  I'm pretty sure that's what I did when I'd misaligned mine.

The cam and crank should line up every two revolutions iirc

[Stophen]

Thanks @Albert27, great to hear from you!

As i'm a DIYer I could have easily over tightened it, I will double check the readings for it this time!

Just to confirm you suggest locking the crank first and altering the cam sprocket? @isetta suggested doing it the other way around, does it make any difference?

Hopefully you can see from the picture that all that is left is the metal bearing, the outer plastic casing completely disintegrated!

Cheers, Stophen.

[isetta]

no idea why the idler wheel would have broken up. If i remember correctly they are hard moulded plastic outer part. Might have just cracked as a one off faulty one. Does the bearing spin OK?

I had a 1.6 petrol focus where the alternator drive belt tensioner wheel disintegrated. as far as I could make out the bearing seized so the belt was being dragged over the plastic wheel causing lots of friction which melted the plastic wheel and it all came apart. 

was the plastic part of the idler wheel found anywhere? 

[Stophen]

Hi @isetta,

Yeah I found the majority of the part inside the lower timing belt casing and it had ripped through a little bit of the casing as well.

I'm hoping it is just a one off, I will see if the bearing is still spinning. Maybe like @Albert27 suggested and i overtightened it!

Thanks for your help, Stophen.

[Albert27]

7 minutes ago, Stophen said:

Thanks @Albert27, great to hear from you!

As i'm a DIYer I could have easily over tightened it, I will double check the readings for it this time!

Just to confirm you suggest locking the crank first and altering the cam sprocket? @isetta suggested doing it the other way around, does it make any difference?

Hopefully you can see from the picture that all that is left is the metal bearing, the outer plastic casing completely disintegrated!

Cheers, Stophen.

I don't think it matters which way round you do it 🙂  

The surface of the belt looks badly ripped - has the plastic caused that then do we think? I think the idler is torqued to 25nm but check the haynes manual, it should have it in there.

[Stophen]

5 minutes ago, Albert27 said:

The surface of the belt looks badly ripped - has the plastic caused that then do we think

Yeah, I think the plastic shrapnel and the metal surface of the bearing caused the belt fatigue. I can't see anything else that was rubbing against it.

I guess, once I fitted all the new parts, checked the movement by hand I could start the car without the timing cover on to check to make sure there is no interference to the belt?

[Albert27]

15 minutes ago, Stophen said:

Yeah, I think the plastic shrapnel and the metal surface of the bearing caused the belt fatigue. I can't see anything else that was rubbing against it.

I guess, once I fitted all the new parts, checked the movement by hand I could start the car without the timing cover on to check to make sure there is no interference to the belt?

Yep, that's it, rotate the enging by hand 10 revolutions, check timing good. Fit new crank pulley bolt and you'll be good to start with cover off.

[Stophen]

8 minutes ago, Albert27 said:

Fit new crank pulley bolt and you'll be good to start with cover off

Cheers, I'll give it a go and see where I get too.

If I remember rightly there should be a bit of resistance when turning it over by hand?

[Albert27]

10 minutes ago, Stophen said:

Cheers, I'll give it a go and see where I get too.

If I remember rightly there should be a bit of resistance when turning it over by hand?

Yes there will be to overcome the compression.  You'll feel resisitance and then it should go easier and then the process repeats 🙂

[Stophen]

5 minutes ago, Albert27 said:

Yes there will be to overcome the compression.  You'll feel resisitance and then it should go easier and then the process repeats 🙂

That’s brilliant, exactly what I’m feeling at the moment!

Cheers, Stophen.

[Stophen]

13 hours ago, isetta said:

no idea why the idler wheel would have broken up. If i remember correctly they are hard moulded plastic outer part. Might have just cracked as a one off faulty one. Does the bearing spin OK?

I had a 1.6 petrol focus where the alternator drive belt tensioner wheel disintegrated. as far as I could make out the bearing seized so the belt was being dragged over the plastic wheel causing lots of friction which melted the plastic wheel and it all came apart. 

was the plastic part of the idler wheel found anywhere? 

I've just given it a turn (with the belt still in place), it moves but by no means spins, maybe this is where the problem lies..

[TomsFocus]

2 hours ago, Stophen said:

I've just given it a turn (with the belt still in place), it moves but by no means spins, maybe this is where the problem lies..

Sorry, just catching up with posts now.  I've never seen a new belt idler fail like that before...  Didn't Ford check the belt a few months back?  

You'll need the belt off to spin it, and there should be some resistance to it, if it spins like a rollerskate it's knackered as well.  But I agree with Isetta, that's almost certainly a stiff bearing causing the plastic to overheat and fall off, you'll probably see burn marks or melted plastic on the remnants.  I don't think you can cause it with a little overtightening, maybe if you'd been jumping on the ratchet handle!   I reckon it was a faulty part from the factory and just luck tbh!

[Stophen]

5 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Didn't Ford check the belt a few months back?

I'm pretty sure when they carried out their 'engine investigation' all they did was plug it into the computer and see if there was any error codes, it seems undoing the top timing belt cover was too much to ask for...

5 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

I reckon it was a faulty part from the factory and just luck tbh!

This sounds about right for me, first big job I do and I get faulty parts 🤦‍♂️. Hopefully next week when the new parts arrive I will have better luck.

Cheers, Stophen.

[Stophen]

Hi @isetta, @Albert27 & @TomsFocus,

I just wanted to check a few things with you guys before I start up my car.

I have replaced the timing belt, tensioner pulley & idler pulley. I torqued the tensioner to 30Nm and the idler pulley to 35Nm. These are the settings I found in Haynes, do they sound about right?

I managed to get all the timing pins and the tensioner pulley aligned (with the old belt on). I rotated it 10 tens as stated in Haynes and it looks still in place, do you guys agree? Just a query, when I rotated the engine the tensioner pulley was not torqued up, was this correct (Haynes isn't clear about this)? 

When I rotated the engine some of the 10 rotations were easier than others, does this sound right?

Oh, and finally here is a comparison of the old and new pulley, I'm hoping this was just a faulty part...

Cheers, Stophen.

 

 

[TomsFocus]

The tensioner should have been torqued before turning the engine over.  But as long as it was tight and all still lines up then it's fine.

Not all rotations include a compression stroke so some will be easier.

 

[Stophen]

Thanks @TomsFocus, I did put some tension on it and by my eyes it look likes it has stayed in place, would you agree?

Cheers, Stophen.

[TomsFocus]

1 hour ago, Stophen said:

Thanks @TomsFocus, I did put some tension on it and by my eyes it look likes it has stayed in place, would you agree?

Cheers, Stophen.

In all honesty, it looks a little off to me...sorry... 

May not be enough to make any difference though.  It will move a bit with use anyway, so difficult to say really.  

@iantt would be the best one to ask really.

[Stophen]

Just now, TomsFocus said:

In all honesty, it looks a little off to me...sorry...

Fair enough, i'll give it another go and torque it this time (I think I had it right in the 'before' picture). I guess all I need to do is loosen of the bolt, adjust with the hex key and then tighten to torque and carry out the same 10 revolutions as before?

Cheers, Stophen.

[TomsFocus]

2 minutes ago, Stophen said:

Fair enough, i'll give it another go and torque it this time (I think I had it right in the 'before' picture). I guess all I need to do is loosen of the bolt, adjust with the hex key and then tighten to torque and carry out the same 10 revolutions as before?

Cheers, Stophen.

Yeah it looks perfect in the before picture.  I would wait for Ian's input (editted mine above to tag him) as it might be alright.