AUTOMATIC gearbox or POWERSHIFT, you should understand the difference before buying.

[Alison Griffiths]

Unofix.  Thanks for your condolences.  I'm Welsh from Llanelli, South Wales.  Car is a diesel.  The service department gave me the transmission code.  

Thanks 

Alison

 

 

[unofix]

33 minutes ago, Alison Griffiths said:

Welsh from Llanelli

That explains 'Mam'

We also use the name Mam in the North East.

[TrevorB]

Hi Alison,

Sorry to hear of your sad loss, and now these car problems.

I needed the reg info so that I could 100% ensure what trans is in your veh. There are 2 types of powershift, basically small engine vehs have DRY clutch trans 6DCT250, larger engine vehs, 1.6 and above have WET clutch 6DCT450, which, Ford ETIS confirms, as yours is a 2 litre you have the wet clutch trans, the 6DCT450.

I know it does not help, but this is not just a Ford problem. Just for information the DCT250 is also used in Renault and Citroen small engine vehs and the DCT450 is used in numerous Volvo models.

I can't really comment what dealer should have said or did not say at time of sale, depends how much "they care" I guess. But that is in the past now and you have to move on.

The  3 year or 37,500 mile Ford Dealer service sheet states that the trans oil and filter should be changed. The service sheet also states the dealer needs to obtain a separate order number off the owner as it is an extra cost item, if the owner says NO, then so be it, it is not done, but one would expect dealer to advise owner of possible consequences. Cost to do job at dealer can be around £250. Labour time is low but genuine Ford oil is expensive. Hence I am sure that on many occasions these oil and filters do not get changed on these vehs.

As Dave has advised it could be the battery BUT, it could also be the transmission.

You can only follow the methodical route to find the cause - the cheapest and easiest route is to start with a battery first.

As you know dealer repair cost is crazy - best to try and find a specialist but if it requires trans overhaul still approx £2k plus.

Regards

Trevor B

PS, as there is nothing private in the above I have copied this message to this main thread so other members are aware of current status

I see you are in Llanelli, unfortunately I don't know of any specialists in you area. I am over in Warwickshire

[Dave May]

 

1). Anyone know if Alisons powershift gearbox is working again. I know she was advised to buy a new battery and clean all battery ground connections, also somehow to get new gearbox software updated etc. Hopefully it’s all fixed now.
If unfortunately it’s not fixed I would have asked Ford head office to trade in this car cost FREE, for any Ford AUTOMATIC car with a TORQUE CONVERTER gearbox to save Ford being subjected to the embarrissment of BBC WATCHDOG telling the world exactly what this gearbox is like.

2) Looks like I was right after all as the MONDEO has NOT disappeared. The new Mondeo for 2022 is definitely being built in China and at present time will be only be sold to the Chinese people, but will soon be available in Europe. There are no diesel versions or Estates at present time just petrol and electric saloons.

3) The battery on this Mondeo will be a BLADE battery which are cells 3 feet long and stacked on edges. This gives a very compact and fire safe battery, even Tesla are now using them. The battery is made by Chinese company BYD ( Build your Dreams) and go up to a 200 kwatt which gives a 600mile range.
English 240volt single phase mains can only give max 7 kwatts charging per hour that’s nearly 30 hours to fully charge. Special 30kwatt chargers can be obtained but thats getting expensive. 

I can see all English mains voltage being changed to the American 3 phase 440volt system, that 3 phases with 220volts on each and will easily fully charge a 200kwatt battery quickly.

Dave

[unofix]

1 hour ago, Dave May said:

The battery is made by Chinese company BYD ( Build your Dreams)

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

that will be handy when the west is almost reaching a point of conflict (possibly sanctions at the very least) with China.

[TrevorB]

Dave, I think you may have misread my above information thread. Alison's veh has NOT got the trans in that was a "TOTAL FAILURE" and cost Ford millions of dollars, that was the dry clutch 6DCT250

Alison's has the wet clutch 6DCT450. The car is over 10 years old with mileage and owners. Not a cat in hells chance of any goodwill from Ford.

I did have various PMs with Alison but no conclusions or knowledge of end result. It was still as described by her last posts, waiting to do battery etc, heard nothing since

[alanfp]

 

4 hours ago, Dave May said:

and go up to a 200 kwatt which gives a 600mile range.
English 240volt single phase mains can only give max 7 kwatts charging per hour that’s nearly 30 hours to fully charge. Special 30kwatt chargers can be obtained but thats getting expensive. 

I can see all English mains voltage being changed to the American 3 phase 440volt system, that 3 phases with 220volts on each and will easily fully charge a 200kwatt battery quickly.

 

There's clearer information on the internet than what's written here, if you are interested in charging rates etc.

[Dave May]

Trev I know she has the wet clutch type but this gearbox is still liable to have broken clutch plates and dirty oil with metal particles in that stick to the magnets to then stop the sensors operating the gearbox control.

You are probably right as usual and hopefully the gearbox is now in perfect working order with just the battery and software as the cause of the problem.

Let’s hope Alison gets back on and tells us all the result.

Dave

 

 

[TrevorB]

Hi Dave, yes I know all the ins and outs of the wet clutch 450 units - believe it or not, a guy in Sweden taught me loads about it some years ago. What I am getting at is the 450 is not as an horrendous trans like the 250 dry clutch one is.

Alison was thinking about another Focus auto but, although it was a 450 one I suggested it best alone after seeing it's dealer's advert.

It would be nice to know whats happened but invariably so many posters don't close down their threads with the final outcome/answer 

[Dave May]

Just to be clear.

UK use 415v 3 phase to get 240v

Europe use 400v 3 phase to get 230v

Be aware if you use a  French light bulb in England it will glow brighter, get hotter and not last long with 240v on it.

 

 

[Alison Griffiths]

Hi All.  A family member was recently admitted to intensive care unit, a worrying time for us all and afraid my car literally took a back seat!  Family member has since been discharged, and I hope to update you all again soon.  I will say this.  My car may be nearly 10 years old, but the mileage is low as on average mileage is should around 100,000.  At 67,000 I would not have expected the gear box to go.  Looking around on the internet there are quite a few vehicles for sale with this gearbox and I pity the person who buys one!!  I am currently writing to the dealership to see what they say.  From the history of the car, they knew the gearbox was going to fail sooner rather than later.  So, the full service history was not worth the paper written on, and if the transmission had not been serviced then the warranty they sold me was likely void with regard to gearbox failure.  How many other people have been affected?  What reflection would this be on Ford's reputation?  Bear with me while I sort out family illness, work part time, and deal with the diagnosis that I have the same condition as my mam but at least diagnosed much earlier.  I will keep future posts limited to comments on my car, but perhaps the background to my hectic life explains my lack of regular updates.  Thank you for your interest, advice and patience.  Alison.

[TrevorB]

Hi Alison, really sorry to hear about your family member being very ill. worrying times for you.

Hope things improve going forward

Take care 

[DaveT70]

17 hours ago, Alison Griffiths said:

Hi All.  A family member was recently admitted to intensive care unit, a worrying time for us all and afraid my car literally took a back seat!  Family member has since been discharged, and I hope to update you all again soon.  I will say this.  My car may be nearly 10 years old, but the mileage is low as on average mileage is should around 100,000.  At 67,000 I would not have expected the gear box to go.  Looking around on the internet there are quite a few vehicles for sale with this gearbox and I pity the person who buys one!!  I am currently writing to the dealership to see what they say.  From the history of the car, they knew the gearbox was going to fail sooner rather than later.  So, the full service history was not worth the paper written on, and if the transmission had not been serviced then the warranty they sold me was likely void with regard to gearbox failure.  How many other people have been affected?  What reflection would this be on Ford's reputation?  Bear with me while I sort out family illness, work part time, and deal with the diagnosis that I have the same condition as my mam but at least diagnosed much earlier.  I will keep future posts limited to comments on my car, but perhaps the background to my hectic life explains my lack of regular updates.  Thank you for your interest, advice and patience.  Alison.

Alison, I'm really sorry for your troubles.

Like I said to you before, the fault codes you showed point to power failure only.

The dealer even stated to you that, they don't know where it's gone, it's just gone????

The gearbox will throw up the relevant codes for any of the monitored systems within it, there weren't any codes, just power failure.

Just change the battery and reset the modules, it's lost it's settings due to power failure.

Even if you DO end up needing a new transmission, you will still need a new battery, so PLEASE, change the battery first and RESET the TCM before you do anything else.

[Dave May]

Message for DaveT70 
Your post on 13th March states Alison’s 2.0L diesel has a DRY CLUTCH and you have advised her to change the battery and get software installed at her expense.
Not sure if this is necessary as Trevor states it is a WET CLUTCH.
Please confirm that you still advise to change the battery and renew software as if it is not required it should save her a few quid.
Dave

[DaveT70]

15 hours ago, Dave May said:

Message for DaveT70 
Your post on 13th March states Alison’s 2.0L diesel has a DRY CLUTCH and you have advised her to change the battery and get software installed at her expense.
Not sure if this is necessary as Trevor states it is a WET CLUTCH.
Please confirm that you still advise to change the battery and renew software as if it is not required it should save her a few quid.
Dave

Yes, David.

At First we presumed it was a DCT250 (Petrol, Dry Clutch) as she wasn't giving us much information.

It is a DCT450, wet clutch.

Wet or dry clutch, they both work the same, just one is stronger than the other.

The diagnosis from the dealer was, we don't know where it's gone, but it's gone, you need a new transmission.

The only codes present were power issues, which point to either:

The battery is knackered (which it was)

The earth points on the body are not performing (she was advised to get the paint removed from and to grease the earth points)

There may be a broken wire somewhere.

A new battery, cleaned earths and a full reset will probably fix the issue.

If not, then investigate a broken COMMS wire somewhere in the harness between the transmission to the TCM and from the TCM to the PCM.

BEFORE you think about changing the transmission

15 hours ago, Dave May said:

Please confirm that you still advise to change the battery and renew software as if it is not required it should save her a few quid.

Save her a few quid in regards to what?? Been told she needs a new transmission?

[Dave May]

Had a message from Alison, she decided to sell her car for £1800 to a salvage company as a non runner. She did not bother to get the main dealer to obtain and install new software as there was no guarantee it would fix the gearbox and the cost of that and to find broken wires etc would be too expensive. I think she has done the right thing.
I have always said POWERSHIFT is computer operated WHO NEEDS THAT ? and now we have a definite LOSS OF SOFTWARE. This could cause loss of drive and a big accident on a smart motorway.
All I have tried to do is to let car buyers know the difference between POWERSHIFT and TORQUE CONVERTER gearboxes. There should be enough info on this post now for car buyers to make the right decision. 
If Sadiq Khan gets his way and bans all ICE cars inside the M25 at the end of next year I will expect a scrap value on my old Mondeo and be able to buy the New Electric Mondeo from China hopefully an estate version would be available by then.
Best Regards
Dave

[unofix]

21 minutes ago, Dave May said:

If Sadiq Khan gets his way and bans all ICE cars inside the M25 at the end of next year

I would agree to that, so long as the rest of the UK can ban Sadiq Khan from being outside of the M25 👍

[DaveT70]

9 hours ago, Dave May said:

Had a message from Alison, she decided to sell her car for £1800 to a salvage company as a non runner. She did not bother to get the main dealer to obtain and install new software as there was no guarantee it would fix the gearbox and the cost of that and to find broken wires etc would be too expensive. I think she has done the right thing.
I have always said POWERSHIFT is computer operated WHO NEEDS THAT ? and now we have a definite LOSS OF SOFTWARE. This could cause loss of drive and a big accident on a smart motorway.
All I have tried to do is to let car buyers know the difference between POWERSHIFT and TORQUE CONVERTER gearboxes. There should be enough info on this post now for car buyers to make the right decision. 
If Sadiq Khan gets his way and bans all ICE cars inside the M25 at the end of next year I will expect a scrap value on my old Mondeo and be able to buy the New Electric Mondeo from China hopefully an estate version would be available by then.
Best Regards
Dave

That's just pure lack of knowledge and lack of trust of people who actually have the knowledge.

A new battery and a relearn would have cured the issue, but now she's sold the car at a loss because she can't be bothered to fit a battery and reset the modules.

Her loss.

It's enough to make you consider stopping giving people advice

[unofix]

1 hour ago, DaveT70 said:

and a relearn would have cured the issue

Yes I think you are most probably correct. Having recently had major problems with my daughters Ecosport caused by damaged wiring to the TCM, I was at first very concerned after repairing the wiring that the gearbox had a mind of it's own. Second gear was not available and reverse gear could only be used once per ignition cycle. However after doing the full relearn including the drum, the gearbox is better now than it has ever been, and works perfectly (or as perfect as an Ecosport ever can).

[DaveT70]

1 hour ago, unofix said:

Yes I think you are most probably correct. Having recently had major problems with my daughters Ecosport caused by damaged wiring to the TCM, I was at first very concerned after repairing the wiring that the gearbox had a mind of it's own. Second gear was not available and reverse gear could only be used once per ignition cycle. However after doing the full relearn including the drum, the gearbox is better now than it has ever been, and works perfectly (or as perfect as an Ecosport ever can).

I doubt she even had a wiring fault TBH, the fault codes was just showing power issues.

And the dealers are just as useless.

A new battery and a reset would've fixed it, guaranteed

Someone has bought a bargain there

[LiamPope]

Hello powershift experts!

Soooo, is there any failure mode with the DCT450 that results in a chirping noise almost exactly like a faulty bearing on an item of the accessory belt? So much like it that I initially thought it must be the accessory belt, so I'm in the process of changing that, plus timing belt, water pump and all engine and gearbox mounts as that all needs doing anyway.

My fear this could be the gearbox comes as I was unable to get the chirp at idle to try to identify exactly which item on the belt was worn, and when driving and thinking about it it seems the chirping happens mostly when pulling away - i.e. when a clutch will be operating.

The box is also due an oil change which I'm doing asap too.

So I'm hoping all this fixes the noise, but will be back in here crying if not! Just wondering if anyone has heard of this as a failure mode? I don't think I have in my limited experience - normally problems seem to have performance symptoms like juddering, poor gear change, missing gears, etc etc. I have none of that - smooth operation and good behaviour.

Cheers.

[DaveT70]

2 hours ago, LiamPope said:

My fear this could be the gearbox comes as I was unable to get the chirp at idle to try to identify exactly which item on the belt was worn, and when driving and thinking about it it seems the chirping happens mostly when pulling away - i.e. when a clutch will be operating.

The box is also due an oil change which I'm doing asap too.

So I'm hoping all this fixes the noise, but will be back in here crying if not! Just wondering if anyone has heard of this as a failure mode? I don't think I have in my limited experience - normally problems seem to have performance symptoms like juddering, poor gear change, missing gears, etc etc. I have none of that - smooth operation and good behaviour.

I believe, but I may be wrong, the "chirp" on pull away is the driveshafts, not the transmission.

Change the oil in the transmission ASAP

[Awright101]

Sorry to resurrect this thread but could do with some advice.

my Mondeo 2L diesel powershift is all good except when cold first gear tends to lunge into 2nd. If I put my foot down it’s ok fairly smooth and if  it’s warm it’s ok. My dealer said it works on pressure which builds when warm. Do you think it’s anything to worry about. It’s been like this for 18 months. Thanks

[alanfp]

My advice, Andy, would be to get a gearbox oil and filter service. Ford recommend every 37500 miles. 

[Awright101]

1 hour ago, alanfp said:

My advice, Andy, would be to get a gearbox oil and filter service. Ford recommend every 37500 miles. 

Thanks Al, it was done in May 21 so due again next May. I did think about getting it done early but as it’s been doing it for such a long time wondered if it was something else