New Focus Engines

[Nimrodmk8]

I want to buy a Ford Focus ST-Line, I've been driving a 125ps courtesy car for a few months because of lock down, I prefer the driving experience to the Fiesta, my question is worth paying about £2000 more for the 1.5 Ecoboost with 150ps so 25ps more than the 1.0 and roughly 70Lb of torque, I know the insurance will be slightly more, my thinking is that an engine a third larger would be under less stress especially when fully loaded, your thoughts would be much appreciated

[Eric Bloodaxe]

No right and wrong answer to this one, I suspect everyone will have their own take on it. If you prefer the driving experience of a 125ps Focus to a 140ps Fiesta it sounds as if you're not that interested in the performance?

Personally, if I could have a 1.5 Fiesta with more torque than my 1.0 but without having to have the seat and suspension of the ST, I'd jump at it, so in a Focus I'd definitely go for the 1.5. Incidentally last time I looked at the Focus price list I think the gap between a 125ps 1.0 and a 150ps 1.5 ST-Line was £1,000? And the torque difference between the two is only 70nm, iirc, so only about 50 lbs more, but still worth having I think.😀

 

[Nimrodmk8]

Sorry I think I have posted in the wrong forum, it's the Ford Focus I will be buying as I had an issue with the Fiesta.

 

[JW1982]

The 150 HP version of the 1.5 ECOboost with manual transmission will be replaced by the new 155 HP 1.0 ECOboost Hybrid in most European countries. In many countries the 150 HP version of the 1.5 ECOboost already disappeared from the brochures. 

The 150 HP version with automatic transmission however remains available. 

[alexp999]

It's worth mentioning the 1.5 ecoboost at 150PS is de-tuned.

The engine normally makes about 180PS.

It's a bit like the 100PS 1.0 is a de-tuned 125PS 1.0.

And when I say de-tuned, it's only at the top end passed about 4-5k. From low revs, to 4k, the 1.5 ecoboost has the same torque in both 150 and 180 versions, noticeably more than the 1.0.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

26 minutes ago, JW1982 said:

The 150 HP version of the 1.5 ECOboost with manual transmission will be replaced by the new 155 HP 1.0 ECOboost Hybrid in most European countries.

Interesting! I was wondering if that would be happening.

[Guy Heaton]

They should stick a mild hybrid 200bhp version of the 1.5 into the Focus STX

[Nimrodmk8]

57 minutes ago, alexp999 said:

It's worth mentioning the 1.5 ecoboost at 150PS is de-tuned.

The engine normally makes about 180PS.

It's a bit like the 100PS 1.0 is a de-tuned 125PS 1.0.

And when I say de-tuned, it's only at the top end passed about 4-5k. From low revs, to 4k, the 1.5 ecoboost has the same torque in both 150 and 180 versions, noticeably more than the 1.0.

I think you have my thoughts to, go for a third larger engine and de-tuned, surely better when loaded with passengers and hills, I'm old school I can not get my head around a 1000cc engine my last motorbike had an engine bigger than that, I'm assuming it's less demand on the 1500cc and probably worth the extra. 

[Guy Heaton]

I test drove a 1.0 125bhp Focus STLine, it was not quick but it didn't feel underpowered.  They really do feel like a bigger engine.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

46 minutes ago, Nimrodmk8 said:

I think you have my thoughts to, go for a third larger engine and de-tuned, surely better when loaded with passengers and hills, I'm old school I can not get my head around a 1000cc engine my last motorbike had an engine bigger than that, I'm assuming it's less demand on the 1500cc and probably worth the extra. 

As Alex and I have mentioned, the 1.5 has more torque than the 1.0 so if that's your issue with the 1.0,  the 1.5 would seem to be the answer. The new 1.0 155ps mild hybrid mentioned by Wilco above has similar torque to the 1.5 (when it appears, it was supposed to follow on from it's introduction in the Puma but things are no doubt delayed due to coronavirus.) I would think there may be a chance of a deal on a 1.5 at the moment, though.

[Nimrodmk8]

59 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

As Alex and I have mentioned, the 1.5 has more torque than the 1.0 so if that's your issue with the 1.0,  the 1.5 would seem to be the answer. The new 1.0 155ps mild hybrid mentioned by Wilco above has similar torque to the 1.5 (when it appears, it was supposed to follow on from it's introduction in the Puma but things are no doubt delayed due to coronavirus.) I would think there may be a chance of a deal on a 1.5 at the moment, though.

Thanks one and all, think I've now made up my mind now and go for the 1.5 petrol, it's nice to have that extra torque, obviously I would like the ST or RS but trying to keep running costs down as it will be mainly used for commuting and probably better longevity with  the slightly larger engine

[Tizer]

1 hour ago, Nimrodmk8 said:

Thanks one and all, think I've now made up my mind now and go for the 1.5 petrol, it's nice to have that extra torque, obviously I would like the ST or RS but trying to keep running costs down as it will be mainly used for commuting and probably better longevity with  the slightly larger engine

A wise move. After driving diesels for years I love my 150bhp petrol. Once you get out of town and switch sport mode on it is very responsive.

Also the 1.5 does not seem to have had the same problems with GPF Regeneration required notifications and runs smoothly under cylinder deactivation. Some people have complained about these things with the 1.0.

Hopefully the flywheel is bigger too, so it may not suffer from the clutch problems the MK3 1.0 engine cars did. 

[Alex.S]

2 hours ago, Nimrodmk8 said:

Thanks one and all, think I've now made up my mind now and go for the 1.5 petrol, it's nice to have that extra torque, obviously I would like the ST or RS but trying to keep running costs down as it will be mainly used for commuting and probably better longevity with  the slightly larger engine

At least test drive a 182 AUTO. I think it’s only vignale and ST Line X have that engine. 

[ianincheshire]

11 hours ago, Tizer said:

Also the 1.5 does not seem to have had the same problems with GPF Regeneration required notifications 

That's because the 1.5 uses a combination of port and direct injection rather than fully direct as in the 1.0 and so doesnt produce the same level of particulates. Also the gpf is located closer to the engine and so passive regeneration probably happens more effectively

[JW1982]

Last week I read on multiple forums that Ford cancelled orders for the 182 HP version of the 1.5 ECOboost because of emission reasons.

If that is true it may be just a matter of time before the 1.5 ECOboost will be no longer available at all.

[alexp999]

4 hours ago, JW1982 said:

Last week I read on multiple forums that Ford cancelled orders for the 182 HP version of the 1.5 ECOboost because of emission reasons.

If that is true it may be just a matter of time before the 1.5 ECOboost will be no longer available at all.

Surely with its combined port injection it should be one of the better engines. 

If they can make the direct injection 2.3 in the ST pass emissions?

[Tizer]

2 hours ago, JW1982 said:

Last week I read on multiple forums that Ford cancelled orders for the 182 HP version of the 1.5 ECOboost because of emission reasons.

If that is true it may be just a matter of time before the 1.5 ECOboost will be no longer available at all.

I wonder if it was done to reduce Ford's overall emissions or to comply with the WLTP regulations.

When Ford changed the tyre specification for my model from 205 to 195 it could only have been for emission reasons because V rated 205 60 16 are more expensive than 195 65 16 tyres.

[Guy Heaton]

I'm not sure I beleive that.  It is still used across the whole range of Ford cars and exists in current price lists.

I can see them hybridising it as they have the 1.0 but not ditching it completely.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

I'm Interested to see what happens. As we know, the mild hybrid 1.0 has now appeared in the Fiesta as from the 2 June price list and it was due to come to the Focus so a new list could be imminent.

One of the reasons cited for the Bridgend closure was reduced demand for the 1.5 Dragon (as well as loss of the Jaguar Land Rover business). Ford are using a 2.5 in the full hybrid versions of the Kuga, for example, so it could be the 1.5 is not long for this world.

[alexp999]

The 1.5 dragon is literally their latest engine using all their latest developments like combined injection to reduce emissions. I find it really hard to believe they wouldn't use it.

I half expected it to get a hybrid option itself for larger/performance versions.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

2 hours ago, alexp999 said:

The 1.5 dragon is literally their latest engine using all their latest developments like combined injection to reduce emissions. I find it really hard to believe they wouldn't use it.

I half expected it to get a hybrid option itself for larger/performance versions.

Yes, I was surprised they re-engineered the 1.0 when the Focus came out, rather than using a detuned 1.5 in lower power applications. MINI for example have done this with a 101ps version of their 1.5 in the One, but 134ps in the Cooper.

There was originally talk of an uprated 1.5 being used in the Focus ST I think, but they went for the 2.3.

Read a review of the Mountune 235 conversion for the Mk 8 Fiesta ST the other day. This suggested 235ps was the practical limit without major reworking but there are various packages available taking the old Mk 7.5 1.6 to 300ps + with standard internals which made me wonder if  the 1.5 has not turned out to be as good an engine as was thought? I think Pumaspeed even do a conversion to install the 1.6 into the Mk 8 Fiesta because of better power potential.

These are very strange times though, so I guess we'll just have to see what happens.

 

[Guy Heaton]

Eric that could be because the older 1.6 is 4-pot and there's only so much power you can get from each cylinder, so a 3-pot will always be less?

I read JW's post wrong.  Yes I can see the 182 version being phased out, but hopefully in favour of a 200bhp mild hybrid version.  The 150bhp version is used a lot but not the 182.