keyless on Focus mk3

[Maquina87]

Hi, was wondering if I can get some advice. Looking to put in keyless for my car I know what I need to buy to make this happen, however, not sure how or what I need to do with new key fobs I.e how to program them? Any help would be appreciated.

[Stoney871]

Forscan software with an extended licence is pretty good at calculating incode / outcode data.

You also need a tunnelrat obd module with the ms / hs can switch modification.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/312945560530

 

https://forscan.org/download.html

 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JW1982]

The European Focus MK3 has the latest generation coded PATS immobilizer system witch uses the latest more advanced INCODE/OUTCODE algorithm. Programming of this PATS system requires access to the Ford online FDRS diagnostic system. Access to the PATS programming functionality is only granted to Ford dealers and verified independent specialist.

Forscan or any other known Ford specific diagnostic systems do not have the ability to program the European Focus MK3 PATS system.

 

[StephenFord]

I'm just curious, have we really reached a stage in our evolution where pressing a button on a key fob has become that much of a hassle? 🤣

[Comares2001]

More people would probably like to have it removed than installed now especially when the thieves get their hands on the latest device nicknamed (The Game Boy)

Faraday pouches and sleeping key fobs will irrelevant as all that is bypassed with direct access to the security ECU.

[fiestaecoboostman]

37 minutes ago, Comares2001 said:

More people would probably like to have it removed than installed now especially when the thieves get their hands on the latest device nicknamed (The Game Boy)

Faraday pouches and sleeping key fobs will irrelevant as all that is bypassed with direct access to the security ECU.

 

I should probably say first I am not a fan of keyless start. The advantage is what? The potential disadvantage is theft, and sometimes other petty annoyances. (My brothers Dacia 🤬 gives a cheery hoot on the horn each time it locks and unlocks, unloading shopping in the drive for example, if he steps away from the car about 3ft too), the need for a Faraday bag or box, the issue where the passenger has the fob in their pocket for a shared family car and the passenger gets dropped off - then the car won't restart and the driver is stranded etc.

Electronic car theft is a too and fro battle with one side trying to stay ahead and the other trying to catch up. The problem is once you've bought your car you are stuck with a level of security that undoubtedly over time cyber criminals will crack. The manuactures might offer some upgrades or support, but generally enhanced security is offered on the "New latest model" to attract new buyers.

It probably comes across as a bit of jealousy from a none keyless start owner but I can honestly say it was a feature I actively avoided when I changed my car. I spent a lot of cash (by my standards) in the end, and to get a nice car WITHOUT keyless I had to choose carefully. I liked almost every other feature on the top of the range model I was looking at but I went for the lower spec car for that reason.

If I had keyless start I'd want a manual locking security device for peace of mind and to deter theft, surely that just negates any advantage offered in the first place?

The only positive about adding it when you already had a key start would be a thief seeing the keyway would assume it was not keyless with any luck. The last stat I saw on car theft was it is on the rise again, and 50% involve use of the key, either by taking it or electronic trickery on keyless.

I've probably ranted enough but I'd like to hear from anyone who loves it, some tech you think you don't want you learn to like, some you dont. I never bother using voice control in the car for example, but I do love Apple car play. I honestly didn't think I would, but the maps with live traffic updates in better than the built in nav.

 

[TomsFocus]

Keyless start is great...it's keyless entry that's the issue.  

Regarding the Gameboy, it's sold with a warning that it shouldn't be bought by anyone intending to use it unlawfully, so I'm sure that'll work!  

[StephenFord]

5 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Regarding the Gameboy, it's sold with a warning that it shouldn't be bought by anyone intending to use it unlawfully, so I'm sure that'll work!  

I've just checked mine, and dam, all I can get is that ***** Tetris!

[Wino]

I still use both the key fob mainly for locking the car but keyless option to get in partialy because it winds the OH up that she can't get in the car until I walk around to the drivers side to get in 😂

[fiestaecoboostman]

2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Keyless start is great...it's keyless entry that's the issue.  

Regarding the Gameboy, it's sold with a warning that it shouldn't be bought by anyone intending to use it unlawfully, so I'm sure that'll work!  

Keyless entry has been on every car I've owned since my 'F' reg Sierra came with a remote control key I think. F167URN

Or was it the Mondeo M16SSY ?  An awful lot of years ago either way. You could enter without using the key (or a bit of banding tape as on earlier Fords)

 

[TomsFocus]

1 hour ago, fiestaecoboostman said:

Keyless entry has been on every car I've owned since my 'F' reg Sierra came with a remote control key I think. F167URN

Or was it the Mondeo M16SSY ?  An awful lot of years ago either way. You could enter without using the key (or a bit of banding tape as on earlier Fords)

 

That's remote central locking...

Keyless entry is where you don't have to press the fob button. 

Keyless start is the push button on the dashboard.

They're not the same thing at all.  Most MK3 Focus' come with keyless start but not keyless entry which is actually pretty good.  Doesn't increase theft risk but means you don't have a bunch of keys smashing the dashboard over every bump and feels quite 'modern'...I know not everyone likes modern lol.

It's something I do miss from the Focus...especially as my Golf has a sticky ignition barrel when hot!

 

[StephenFord]

18 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

That's remote central locking...

 

I had that on my brand new 1984 XR3i. Wasn't standard, but I had fitted one of those new fangled LaserLine alarms which had a fob which activated the locking to activate/deactivate alarm., I use to be such a cool dude 🙄 Where did it all go so wrong...

[fiestaecoboostman]

1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

That's remote central locking...

Keyless entry is where you don't have to press the fob button. 

Keyless start is the push button on the dashboard.

They're not the same thing at all.  Most MK3 Focus' come with keyless start but not keyless entry which is actually pretty good.  Doesn't increase theft risk but means you don't have a bunch of keys smashing the dashboard over every bump and feels quite 'modern'...I know not everyone likes modern lol.

It's something I do miss from the Focus...especially as my Golf has a sticky ignition barrel when hot!

 

So I used a key? Keyless entry doesn't cover it really, but I know what you mean.

 

I would however find your view that it doesn't increase theft risk slightly at odds with the facts surrounding vehicle crime.

 

1st (none promoted) story when I searched - and the promoted were worse ...

 

Keyless car theft is now being described as an “epidemic” by the West Midlands Police and Crime Commissioner David Jamieson – and worryingly, car manufacturers appear to have little control over the rise in a technique known as relay crime.

“Thefts involving electronic devices are on the up and it’s clear that manufacturers could do more to make their vehicles secure,” said Jamieson.

But what is keyless car theft and how can you avoid being a victim?

Following years of a downward trend in the number of vehicle thefts, the so-called ‘relay attack’ is seen as a significant contributor to the 30 percent rise in car thefts in England and Wales between 2013 and 2016. 

[TomsFocus]

16 minutes ago, fiestaecoboostman said:

So I used a key? Keyless entry doesn't cover it really, but I know what you mean.

 

I would however find your view that it doesn't increase theft risk slightly at odds with the facts surrounding vehicle crime.

 

1st (none promoted) story when I searched - and the promoted were worse ...

 

Keyless car theft is now being described as an “epidemic” by the West Midlands Police and Crime Commissioner David Jamieson – and worryingly, car manufacturers appear to have little control over the rise in a technique known as relay crime.

“Thefts involving electronic devices are on the up and it’s clear that manufacturers could do more to make their vehicles secure,” said Jamieson.

But what is keyless car theft and how can you avoid being a victim?

Following years of a downward trend in the number of vehicle thefts, the so-called ‘relay attack’ is seen as a significant contributor to the 30 percent rise in car thefts in England and Wales between 2013 and 2016. 

You can't relay steal a car with keyless start.  Only one with keyless entry!  

The two are very different and don't always come together, as I mentioned about the MK3 Focus above.  

Keyless start is the actual engine start button.  This makes the car no easier to steal as you'd have to physically break in still.

Keyless entry uses a proximity fob.  The fob sends out proximity signals all the time.  It's these signals which you can relay from a house easily - this is what makes car theft easier!

A normal fob for keyless start only doesn't send signals out so can't be relayed.  So buy a MK3 Focus' with keyless start, bit not keyless entry!

 

[richardc1983]

4 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

You can't relay steal a car with keyless start.  Only one with keyless entry!  

The two are very different and don't always come together, as I mentioned about the MK3 Focus above.  

Keyless start is the actual engine start button.  This makes the car no easier to steal as you'd have to physically break in still.

Keyless entry uses a proximity fob.  The fob sends out proximity signals all the time.  It's these signals which you can relay from a house easily - this is what makes car theft easier!

A normal fob for keyless start only doesn't send signals out so can't be relayed.  So buy a MK3 Focus' with keyless start, bit not keyless entry!

Is it true if you put your keys in a metal box the signal will not get out? 

[Comares2001]

Sometimes they can work its easy enough to test. Best bet is to get a proper" Faraday pouch " they do work and are cheap 

[Guy Heaton]

19 hours ago, StephenFord said:

I'm just curious, have we really reached a stage in our evolution where pressing a button on a key fob has become that much of a hassle? 🤣

Keyless entry one of those things that I very much don't want but will have to have.

[billyboy]

On my Focus I can switch the keyless entry off but I prefer to use it and use a Faraday pouch to keep my keys in at home.

[StephenFord]

1 hour ago, Guy Heaton said:

Keyless entry one of those things that I very much don't want but will have to have.

Guy, I look forward to your future post of, "My car has 'keyless entry', how do I disable it?" LOL

[richardc1983]

Any metal tin will work to block the signals, I tried it last night. I wrapped my key in tin foil and then the keyless entry did not work it did not pick up a signal, I even tried pressing the unlock button on the remote through the foil and it still didn't work.

A toffee tin or tobacco tin would do the same... https://www.johnlewis.com/farrah's-original-harrogate-toffee-tin-350g/p158446 

[StephenFord]

Other metal tins are available LOL

 

[Waggy]

25 minutes ago, richardc1983 said:

Any metal tin will work to block the signals, 

Sorry, that's just not true. You'd be surprised at how those pesky little waves can leak out through the tiniest of gaps. I tried an ordinary tin box and it made less than 6 inches difference to when I could open the car. It needs to be a properly sealed "Faraday" cage, but as you said, carefully wrapping the keys in tightly closed tin foil will work just as well.

[richardc1983]

6 minutes ago, Waggy said:

Sorry, that's just not true. You'd be surprised at how those pesky little waves can leak out through the tiniest of gaps. I tried an ordinary tin box and it made less than 6 inches difference to when I could open the car. It needs to be a properly sealed "Faraday" cage, but as you said, carefully wrapping the keys in tightly closed tin foil will work just as well.

I have tried it and it worked, I have put it in the tin which has a tight fitting lid, then went out to my car the keyless entry did not work. Take the keys back out and the work. 

To be extra safe though I may shut a layer of foil in the top of the lid for extra seal.

[StephenFord]

4 minutes ago, richardc1983 said:

 

To be extra safe though I may shut a layer of foil in the top of the lid for extra seal.

Sounds a great security system, this 'keyless entry' lark 🤣

[Guy Heaton]

1 hour ago, StephenFord said:

Guy, I look forward to your future post of, "My car has 'keyless entry', how do I disable it?" LOL

Oh yes, I'll be researching that before I get one.😀

To be fair I am too much down on modern tech, I realise that.  I just see a huge gap between useful stuff like ABS, or where the car applies the brakes harder than you can with your foot, and badly thought out fluff like keyless entry which to me has completely negated the progress in car security.  Back in the 80s I needed a krooklok.  Then things improved and I didn't.  Now I do again.  This to me is just stupid.