cylinder deactivation vibration

[Gary Cash]

I have a brand new ford focus active x with the 1.0 litre 125bhp engine. When driving at a constant speed in the 60's I get intermittent vibration of the car. Took it back to garage and then are saying it is as a result of cylinder deactivation to save fuel? Surely a car shouldn't vibrate as a result of an engine management process. Anybody on here had this problem or aware of it. Garage are saying its normal. Thanks

[FocusPerth]

Not sure if you've had any resolution on this one Gary?

I've got a MY19 1.5L Ford Focus (demo), have a similar issue with a 'cyclic' vibration that occurs on decelleration with the accelerator slightly depressed at around 81 kmph down to 78 kmph, and again at the 60 mark.

Taken it to Ford twice now, first time they said they couldn't diagnose any issues, second time they said theres a normal droning which is characteristic of the Focus.

Not happy as its certainly an unpleasent 'misfiring' type of vibration, as if the engine is choking.

[Linds]

I know nothing about the technicalities but I was told I would not be aware of cylinder deactivation ... and I can't say i have noticed anything ... yet, anyway!

[MasterTechTip]

I've been quite involved with cylinder deactivation and it's come to the conclusion that not all cars experience the same thing. Some vehicles experience it quite badly, whilst others you can't even feel it. I've tried fixing one vehicle where the entire car shook badly and could not rectify it. Had the entire engine in pieces and replaced the cylinder deactivating parts as well as engine mounts and even the flywheel. Unfortunately it's just how it is with some. 

[ADR91]

On 9/24/2020 at 11:17 PM, MasterTechTip said:

I've been quite involved with cylinder deactivation and it's come to the conclusion that not all cars experience the same thing. Some vehicles experience it quite badly, whilst others you can't even feel it. I've tried fixing one vehicle where the entire car shook badly and could not rectify it. Had the entire engine in pieces and replaced the cylinder deactivating parts as well as engine mounts and even the flywheel. Unfortunately it's just how it is with some. 

Have you tried replacing the clutch disc on that car ? It has got integrated dampers that are involved in suppressing the vibrations when the engine runs on two cylinders.

My Focus vibrates pretty badly at highway speeds, and I'm suspicious about that clutch disc as I sometimes get a strange clunking noise when changing gears, depressing or releasing the clutch pedal.

How about checking the compression ratio in cylinder n°1 ? Cylinder deactivation relies on a pneumatic spring being created in the deactivated cylinder, so perhaps a leak in that cylinder could cause the system to malfunction.

 

[DaveT70]

Drive in Sport mode, cylinder deactivation cuts off in Sport mode

[ADR91]

7 hours ago, DaveT70 said:

Drive in Sport mode, cylinder deactivation cuts off in Sport mode

Yes, I noticed that. However driving in sport mode doesn't really seem like a proper solution to me.

From what I have read on the internet, it seems like only a few vehicles are experiencing the problem, and if this is truly the case, then those vehicles must have some kind of flaw which I am trying to identify.

I took my car to the dealer for it's two year scheduled service last week and mentioned the problem.

They were actually quite impressed at how badly the car shook. One of their techs had merely heard of the cylinder deactivation issue but never experienced anything like it.

What they did was to update the ECU as my car was an early model but hadn't enough time to test it out.

It didn't change anything so I'm taking it back on Thursday and will see what they say about it.

I might add that that my mother has got a Fiesta with cylinder deactivation and I wasn't ever able to notice cylinder deactivation occuring in that car, even in normal or eco driving modes.

[DaveT70]

Has Fiesta got cylinder deactivation?

[ADR91]

The 200 PS 1.5 L Ecoboost engine of the Fiesta ST was actually the very first Ecoboost engine to feature cylinder deactivation.

Since then, the new 95 PS Ecoboost engine that came out in November 2019 was equipped with that feature too (most likely to comply with WLTP regulations), as well as the new mild hybrid 125 PS engine that has recently been made available on the Fiesta.

My mother's Fiesta has got the 95 PS version of the 1.0 L Ecoboost engine. I tried it out again this morning on the highway so to be sure that it wasn't vibrating like my Focus does, and although you can hear a difference in the engine sound between sport and normal mode if you pay close attention to it, there is no vibration whatsoever to be felt, which is the way it should be in my opinion.

[Dark Andy]

Just to add, I also have an early mk4 (68 plate) with the 1.0 ecoboost 125. I've had more than my fair share of other issues with this car (I think it's been back 4 times now for different things) I've never noticed this problem despite being quite a regular motorway driver - so it definitely seems to be something which affects some cars more than others.

[ADR91]

2 minutes ago, Dark Andy said:

Just to add, I also have an early mk4 (68 plate) with the 1.0 ecoboost 125. I've had more than my fair share of other issues with this car (I think it's been back 4 times now for different things) I've never noticed this problem despite being quite a regular motorway driver - so it definitely seems to be something which affects some cars mor than others.

Thanks for the info. Could you please specify whether you've got manual or automatic transmission ?

[Dark Andy]

17 minutes ago, ADR91 said:

Thanks for the info. Could you please specify whether you've got manual or automatic transmission ?

No problem - it's the manual and it's the one with the reverse at the bottom right (apparently there are two different manual gear boxes in circulation - one with reverse at the top left and one with reverse at the bottom right).

[ADR91]

So it's the same gearbox as mine. I asked the question as I was thinking that on automatic transmissions, the torque converter might help smooth out the vibrations.

I don't think I've ever heard of anyone with automatic transmission complain about having that problem.

May I ask what driving mode you usually drive in ? This problem never occurs in sport mode as you may already know.

[Dark Andy]

11 minutes ago, ADR91 said:

So it's the same gearbox as mine. I asked the question as I was thinking that on automatic transmissions, the torque converter might help smooth out the vibrations.

I don't think I've ever heard of anyone with automatic transmission complain about having that problem.

May I ask what driving mode you usually drive in ? This problem never occurs in sport mode as you may already know.

Most driving is done in Normal mode - I do occasionally use sport mode for driving around town (for better accelerator response) but 90% of the time is "Normal" as is 99.9% of motorway driving. I also sometimes use the cruise control on the motorway but not always (probably something like 30% cruise control and 70% my right foot) and again can say that I've never noticed any signs of the 3rd cylinder deactivate at any time, and I am quite demanding in what I expect from my car (hence it going back 4 times in a year and a half).

[ADR91]

OK. Thanks for all the background information. I guess I'll just see what my dealer says by the end of this week. At least last week they did acknowledge they were quite impressed with how the car vibrated (at first they thought my tires had to be misshaped), yet they only tested it at 110 kph. At 130 kph in normal mode it literally feels like the driver's seat is laid right on top of a spinning washing machine.

I bought it second-hand and I'm glad I paid for seven year warranty.

[MasterTechTip]

On 1/11/2021 at 5:10 PM, ADR91 said:

Have you tried replacing the clutch disc on that car ? It has got integrated dampers that are involved in suppressing the vibrations when the engine runs on two cylinders.

My Focus vibrates pretty badly at highway speeds, and I'm suspicious about that clutch disc as I sometimes get a strange clunking noise when changing gears, depressing or releasing the clutch pedal.

How about checking the compression ratio in cylinder n°1 ? Cylinder deactivation relies on a pneumatic spring being created in the deactivated cylinder, so perhaps a leak in that cylinder could cause the system to malfunction.

 

Yeah I tested compression and this was fine.

The clutch didn't get replaced and the springs wouldn't affect the drive of the vehicle whilst it is fully engaged (unless it is slipping). The springs would affect it during operation of the clutch especially take up of drive in 1st gear. 

I definitely agree that this affects some vehicles more than others and still haven't come across a fix yet although I haven't had any more customer complaints as of yet. 

[St_Ander]

Another Focus owner with the dreaded cylinder deactivation vibration issue. I thought it was tyres, as mine was delivered with summer tyres, and I had to wait 2 weeks for an appointment for winter tyres. I did not drive it far before the tyre switch. Then I did a 350km trip and got this intermittent vibration. Took it back for a balancing check, and was assured all OK. Next trip and there is still a vibration. Totally random, almost as if you have flat spots on tyres, and when the flat spots sync, then you feel a weird bumpy vibration.

So now I have escalated it with Ford. Surely to save fuel you should not have to live with a vibration?

[Zeeb]

On 2/23/2021 at 9:21 PM, St_Ander said:

So now I have escalated it with Ford. Surely to save fuel you should not have to live with a vibration?

Has anyone had any more response from Ford on this?

According to a new article from the Netherlands (translation):

Quote

The Ford Focus is no longer available as a lavishly decorated Vignale from mid-April. AutoWeek can report this exclusively. The Focus news does not finish there, as there are also changes for the 1.0 Ecoboost and 1.5 Ecoboost petrol engines.

Cylinder shutdown
The 1.0s and 1.5 Ecoboost will remain available in the Focus, but from now on without cylinder deactivation. According to the Dutch importer, this has to do with streamlining the range. These machines turned out to deliver less CO2 reduction in the WLTP method than previously during the NEDC measurement methods.

From: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.autoweek.nl/autonieuws/artikel/ford-focus-niet-meer-als-vignale/

 

(This has also been raised on the thread "Ford Saarlouis Factory Closed")

It seems possible that cylinder deactivation for the 1.0L and 1.5L engines will be cancelled everywhere (not just the Netherlands) - because the new European emission measurement means Ford can save money by not including it.

But I'm not clear whether the article is saying cylinder deactivation is being cancelled outside the Netherlands. Can anyone confirm or support this?

I have pre-ordered a new 1.5L ST-Line in Australia and I have seen 2 similar complaints (possibly cylinder deactivation-related) - so maybe the vibration/shuddering on the auto 1.5L is the same problem as on the manual 1.0L (Australian Focuses are all 1.5L 180hp automatics, except for the ST). In these cases it can also be stopped by selecting Sport mode.

As I understand, the dual mass flywheel (and damping clutch disc) is only with the manual transmission... If the same problem is occurring on some automatics, this could indicate the dual flywheel may not be related to the issue (or could make it worse?).

Here are Australian forum quotes:

Quote

when it's going around 75kmh – 80kmh, the car noticeably shudders a bit, as though it's going over some small bumps.
...
It feels like the car is massively underpowered, more a low-rev lugging. And the revs are around 1200=1500rpm.

Quote

I have a similar issue to what you describe, it has been slowly getting more noticeable over the course of the last 12-16months.

I wonder if it is the same issue ... I experience a cyclic vibration/shudder through the floor, most noticeable on a flat stretch of road travelling around 80km/h with the accelerator slightly depressed and maintaining / dropping speed slowly down to 77km/h. Vibration is non existant in sports mode.

I've taken it to the dealership numerous times, the answer is always "there are no error codes appearing, test drive reports car behaviour is normal".

from: https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/9yvzp553-2

And another similar complaint in a translated review from Feb 2020 of the Focus 1.0L Titanium (AutoWeek, the Netherlands):
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.autoweek.nl/reviews/artikel/ford-focus-wagon-1-0-ecoboost-125pk-titanium-business-2019-4/

Quote

There is one 'thing'. With a warm engine and at a constant speed of 50 or 80 km / h, the engine makes a disturbing humming noise and some vibration is noticeable. That is not how it should be. This is because the automatic gearbox selects too high a gear at these speeds. The engine will probably run in two-cylinder mode. The hum is between about 1500 and 1700 rpm, with the box set to 'normal'.
...The dealer indicates that he has heard this complaint more often and has also passed this on to Ford. ... Ford itself indicates that it is a product feature. My expectation that Ford will come up with an improvement in due course is not high.
...Or you put the box in the sport mode. That works fine. But ...the engine continues to rev up in sport mode. I don't want that in daily use.

[Zeeb]

PS. I read somewhere on this forum that Sport mode may turn off cylinder deactivation on the 1.0Ls (or some of them) but it does not turn CD off on the 1.5L (even if it is a workaround solution to the vibration issue).

[Tizer]

5 hours ago, Zeeb said:

Has anyone had any more response from Ford on this?

According to a new article from the Netherlands (translation):

From: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.autoweek.nl/autonieuws/artikel/ford-focus-niet-meer-als-vignale/

 

(This has also been raised on the thread "Ford Saarlouis Factory Closed")

It seems possible that cylinder deactivation for the 1.0L and 1.5L engines will be cancelled everywhere (not just the Netherlands) - because the new European emission measurement means Ford can save money by not including it.

But I'm not clear whether the article is saying cylinder deactivation is being cancelled outside the Netherlands. Can anyone confirm or support this?

I have pre-ordered a new 1.5L ST-Line in Australia and I have seen 2 similar complaints (possibly cylinder deactivation-related) - so maybe the vibration/shuddering on the auto 1.5L is the same problem as on the manual 1.0L (Australian Focuses are all 1.5L 180hp automatics, except for the ST). In these cases it can also be stopped by selecting Sport mode.

As I understand, the dual mass flywheel (and damping clutch disc) is only with the manual transmission... If the same problem is occurring on some automatics, this could indicate the dual flywheel may not be related to the issue (or could make it worse?).

Here are Australian forum quotes:

from: https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/9yvzp553-2

And another similar complaint in a translated review from Feb 2020 of the Focus 1.0L Titanium (AutoWeek, the Netherlands):
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.autoweek.nl/reviews/artikel/ford-focus-wagon-1-0-ecoboost-125pk-titanium-business-2019-4/

I'm not surprised that some people are having vibration problems if they are pressing the accelerator at between 1200 - 1500 RPM on a petrol car unless they are going downhill. It does not do the engine, drivetrain or fuel economy any favours.

All the problems that I have read about on here have been with the 1.0 engines, not the 1.5. I have never had problems with my 1.5 Manual.

I have done some Live Monitoring on my 1.5 and in real life Deactivating only occurs for very short periods on time because it only activates at light and steady Throttle openings and the smallest twitch of your right foot either way switches it off until your foot is steady again and at a light opening.

I have seen it working at all speeds between 30 and 70 MPH and on my 1.5 Sport Mode makes no difference but I believe it may do so on the 1.0.

I don't know this for sure but one of the reasons that Ford may have decided to save money and ditch it in Europe is because the real life savings in Europe  are so small because the roads are not flat and straight everywhere and are very busy, so it is not activated for a meaningful amount of time in this part of the world. That is just my thoughts, I don't have any inside info.

If anyone is having vibration problems then either get set up with FORScan and do some Live Monitoring, preferably with someone else driving the car, to see if it only vibrates when the Cylinder has been cut, or just move your right foot slightly and if the vibration is still there it is not because of Cylinder Deactivation.

 

 

  

[Zeeb]

Right, cylinder deactivation turns on in about 1/100th of second and should only occur while cruising.

I guess some complaints in the manual cars might just be people not knowing not to lug the engine in high gears... but I guess it could be annoying if eg., you have cruise control set on a flat highway just above lugging point, and then a cylinder deactivates putting you into a lugging state unless you tap the accelerator to reactivate or drop down a gear. (I've never used cruise control on a manual before so maybe I'm missing something.)

For manuals, is it just a matter of getting used to using a lower gear at certain speeds?

But the ~1200-1700rpm complaint is mostly with auto transmissions I think. In autos, could it be a matter of the cylinder deactivation on/off state not being programmed properly to work with the Normal Mode gear ratios? (taking into account turbo boost level etc.)... I wouldn't think so because most people with the auto don't seem to be having the problem.

But I guess there could be a certain stress state that only turns into a shuddering/concerning vibration if there is an extra issue in the engine, transmission or somewhere else in the drivetrain (?) (I guess even wheel size or suspension type could change stresses.)

That's a good suggestion about FORScan live monitoring to see if cylinder deactivation is a factor in your particular case. I'll suggest it on the Australian forum.

 

On cylinder deactivation being discontinued - I will keep my eye on a few international Ford sites to see if any new brochures get released at the beginning of April which have deleted mentions of cylinder deactivation, and I have google alerts set up. But if anyone sees news about this, please post it.

[Zeeb]

For the record, two more reports from comments under the review article (Feb 2020, Focus 1.0L Titanium) I posted:

Quote

[1] Starter

I don't have an automatic transmission but the manual 100hp version. I also suffer from the "thing" or just say the THING. Somewhere between 2200 and 2700 rpm the engine switches off a cylinder. The whole engine starts to vibrate. The vibrations disappear when you accelerate or reduce the speed further. During a normal highway ride, the speed is typically between 2000 and 3000 rpm. As a result, you often suffer from these vibrations. The comfort of the otherwise quiet engine disappears completely. Are there more riders who recognize these problems?

[2] Alex

Dear Starter, Here also a Ford Focus driver with a 125hp SW manual transmission. Between 2000 and 2800 rpm the cylinder also switches off with me, with the result that the car starts to vibrate annoyingly.

Note the RPM range is in the 2000s on both their *1.0L manual* transmissions when this happens, but the review author has the *1.0L auto* transmission and has the lower RPM range problem (1500-1700).

So if all these people are describing the same problem, this is some data...

AUTO TRANSMISSION - for BOTH the 1.0L and 1.5L engines : ~1200-1700 RPM at around 80kmh (50mph) or just below.
MANUAL TRANSMISSION - for the 1.0L (not sure about the 1.5L) : ~2000-2800 RPM at various highway speeds, eg. in the 60s (mph I think) and 130kmh (80mph)

(note: one of the manual drivers says when they go below that rev range in the same gear the vibrations stop, indicating that it's not a lugging issue but may be related to cylinder deactivation - this could be tested with FORScan live monitoring)

If these drivers are all describing the same problem (serious shuddering/stressed vibration, described by one as felt through the floor), it:
- occurs in 2 engine sizes, 1.0L and 1.5L
- occurs in both auto and manual transmissions (buy maybe not in 1.5L manuals)
- doesn't occur in Sport Mode
- only seems to occur on some cars (several people have tested these conditions and don't have the problem)

What could that mean? A problem with cylinder deactivation being aggressive in high gears COMBINED with another issue, or something else?

[steve67]

when was CD introduced?

i have the 2019 active x and have not felt any vibration?

im just hearing a knocking noise at tickover and the thrum seems very loud..

 

[Zeeb]

CD has always been on the SA engines I think (since 2018) (except the diesels and the 2.3L ST?)

[steve67]

the ford salesman must have forgoitten to tell me..  😏