Peugeot engine in a fiesta???

[mramplin]

This might sound bizarre, but after some investigating in my 2012 1.6 zetec s tdci I've found it has a Peugeot 207 (1.6) engine in it, with all the ancillaries swapped over

 

I bought the car as a non-runner (not getting enough fuel) and with all the fuel parts checked, I'm wondering if the engine is the issue and it's just not compatible with the car and/or ecu

 

Any help would be appreciated

[alexp999]

The 1.6 TDCi is the same engine as the 1.6 HDI.

They are both PSA (Peugeot) DV6 engines.

I believe Ford helped pay towards the R&D, or some other such contributions, but it is the same engine.

That said, I'm sure each company makes their own little alterations/tweaks, it will just be the actual main mechanicals which are the same. Although I've seen a lot of parts under the bonnet with Citroen Ford and Peugeot logos on them, so there are some other parts they also share.

There have been a few different revisions of the engine, I wonder if perhaps the revision doesn't match what the ECU expects?

[isetta]

The 1560cc engine came as 16valve twin cam (earlier) and 8 valve single cam(later)I would expect 2012 fiesta to be 8 valve single cam. If it had 16v put in it afterwards I assume it would be a problem for ecu maybe, but not certain.If you are looking at it, the twin cam only has one cam pulley on timing belt (other cam is driven by chain from first cam out of sight) so don’t just go by that.

[mramplin]

9 hours ago, alexp999 said:

The 1.6 TDCi is the same engine as the 1.6 HDI.

They are both PSA (Peugeot) DV6 engines.

I believe Ford helped pay towards the R&D, or some other such contributions, but it is the same engine.

That said, I'm sure each company makes their own little alterations/tweaks, it will just be the actual main mechanicals which are the same. Although I've seen a lot of parts under the bonnet with Citroen Ford and Peugeot logos on them, so there are some other parts they also share.

There have been a few different revisions of the engine, I wonder if perhaps the revision doesn't match what the ECU expects?

I thought they were the same but from looking online at at hdi engines they all seem to be 16v in the 1.6 engines, when mine is meant to be 8v

 

This might be the cause of my problem😅

[wordchild]

Hi Michael and all,

This may not help...but do you know if your car has a Ford or Peugeot engine management module? Wondering if the electronics aren't compatible... had a Fiesta mk6.5 1.6tdci some years back and took it to my local Peugeot dealer for some reason (can't recall, but probably frustration with Ford dealer over minor engine trouble...). They acknowledged that of course the engines are largely the same mechanically, but said they couldn't help as the electronics and calibration etc are by Ford. 

Apologies if that's a red herring...

[TomsFocus]

12 hours ago, mramplin said:

I thought they were the same but from looking online at at hdi engines they all seem to be 16v in the 1.6 engines, when mine is meant to be 8v

 

This might be the cause of my problem😅

The 8v engine is the newer version - fewer valves made it easier to control the emissions.  Known as a DV6C engine and was used in both PSA and Ford cars from around 2010 onwards.

I really don't think this is the issue, the actual engines are the same, but the wiring loom, injectors, turbo and ECU is different on the 8v version...you can't just simply drop a 16v in an 8v bay without a lot of messing.

11 hours ago, wordchild said:

They acknowledged that of course the engines are largely the same mechanically, but said they couldn't help as the electronics and calibration etc are by Ford. 

They use their own diagnostics so can't access each others modules - IDS for Fords and PP2K/Lexia for Peugeots. 

[mramplin]

23 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

The 8v engine is the newer version - fewer valves made it easier to control the emissions.  Known as a DV6C engine and was used in both PSA and Ford cars from around 2010 onwards.

I really don't think this is the issue, the actual engines are the same, but the wiring loom, injectors, turbo and ECU is different on the 8v version...you can't just simply drop a 16v in an 8v bay without a lot of messing.

They use their own diagnostics so can't access each others modules - IDS for Fords and PP2K/Lexia for Peugeots. 

So do you think it's possible to reprogram the ecu to accept the Peugeot engine, or do I need to get a ford engine so that ford can diagnose it?

[alexp999]

As I said, they are the same engine. Each manufacturer just has their own ECU and some unique ancilliaries.

But you need to have the correct revision/version. The 16V and 8V are examples of two different versions, of both "Peugeot" and "Ford" engines.

A 2012 would have had an 8V engine. The earlier models were 16V.

[TomsFocus]

10 minutes ago, mramplin said:

So do you think it's possible to reprogram the ecu to accept the Peugeot engine, or do I need to get a ford engine so that ford can diagnose it?

It's not a 'Peugeot' engine, they're literally the same!  Why do you still think it's the wrong engine?  

Can you post a pic of the actual engine, and the reg of the car?  Then we can confirm what it is, and what it should be!  

[mramplin]

I think it's the right engine for the most part, I'm just unsure of what the issue is, whether it's the engine itself of just a miscommunication with the ECU that won't let it start

 

I'll attach a pic of the engine and the reg is FE12 VNW

 

And the engine code is 10JBEJ

[TomsFocus]

Yep, that's an 8v engine, it's the correct one for the car.

The engines are physically the same, the PCM (engine ECU) won't care where it's from.  Might be a little rough with the wrong parameters for injectors etc but should still start.

Have you got Forscan to check for fault codes?  Which fuel parts have you checked?

[mramplin]

I don't have the right adapter for forscan but I tried a friends machine on it and it came up with all sorts of codes to do with ECU and bcm not receiving data from other modules, instrument cluster not receiving data, and some do to do with the abs module, fuel rail pressure sensor and crankshaft sensor

 

However, we cleared the codes and tried to start it up but it still won't crank properly and it didn't start and no more codes came up

 

So I'm at a loss at what could be preventing it from starting or even cranking constantly

 

I've changed the fuel filter and housing, tested injections and replaced fuel pump sensor

[TomsFocus]

I really would recommend getting Forscan, it's been invaluable for me over the years.  

It won't crank if you're not getting a connection to the cluster as the immobiliser system runs through it - I suspect it's the immobiliser stopping it cranking unless you've got a dodgy starter motor.

Did you prime the fuel system after replacing the filter?  These don't have an electric lift pump so you have to manually prime the system with a hand pump after the system has been open.

[mramplin]

I thought that too but I wasn't too sure, as the immobilizer light comes on for 3 seconds and goes off as it should

 

Yes the system was primed after messing with it

 

Been down to ford today and they basically had no idea what was going on 😅 said they could try a diagnostic to see if they could find an issue but no guarantees since it has that engine in it

[TomsFocus]

Ford's diagnostic will cost you much more than Forscan to do the same job.

[mramplin]

2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Ford's diagnostic will cost you much more than Forscan to do the same job.

Yea I've ordered the adaptor for it today because ford won't be able to see it for a month so I thought ***** it😂 

 

I just wanted to see if they had any idea what the issue might be and they were scratching their heads lol

[dovski]

I'm facing the same problem here bud, did you get it started? Mine cranks for 2 or 3 secs..never fires.. thx if youve time to reply..My engine is a BHY from a citroen, 8v into 8v...ancillaries swapped over, brackets etc and new fuel filter etc...

[tomshepp]

Throwing in an uneducated guess. Injectors are coded and calibrated to individual engines. If the car's ECU is seeing Peugeot  manufacturer's code when it interrogates them, it may not speak French and give up. If that is the case you may need Ford ones. Phone a diesel specialist and pick his brain to find out if that is the case, if just to rule it out.

[dovski]

Thanks Tom, I coded the injectors in and had just one letter out of 45 of the whole code wrong and forscan wouldnt proceed until I corrected that one letter/number..once corrected, the ecu accepted the codes.. I may however refit the original injectors over the weekend as I cant get it to fire at all, fuel pressure isnt building, despite bleeding with pressure bulb and syphoning return with syringe....thx tho

[anon]

No fuel pressure. Get some. The high pressure pump is mechanical, the lift pump electric. Hardwire that to a battery until you are sure that there really is fuel  there.  Be aware that the system is supposed to be self priming but isn't! Although it is strongly cautioned against, slacken an injector union and cover it with a rag before going through a start attempt. If it remains dry, try again until there is fuel in the high pressure rail, without which it obviously will not run. Once it does fill, , it will stay running.

[dovski]

Thanks  Anon, Ill do this after pump replacement..

 

[CMaXUK]

Hi guys, did you manage to resolve this issue?

 

I have just swapped over a 1.6tdci and having exactly the same issues you guys are having. 
 

out 1.6 16v Peugeot

in 1.6 16v Ford.