Expensive service?

[Lonedev]

Car: Ford Fiesta Titanium Ecoboost 1L 2014

I've just had a very expensive service from Arnold Clark Ford and, I'm wondering if this is normal? £405 for major service and MOT including roughly 50 for investigating an engine noise issue.

What I also found odd was, they didn't replace the brake fluid in that price, which... if it's not in a major service, what kind of service do they actually change it?

It gets worse.

They quoted me £1741.55 for repairs. This is... substantial.  Specially given the car has only done 3500 miles since its last MOT which it passed with flying colours, so this was a bolt from the blue. Essentially it seems the noise is from a hole somewhere in the exhaust, and they want to replace the whole thing for about 910. Another 130 for the final failing component (track rod).  The advisory brake fluid seems cheeky on a major service, given many places include it in a major service at a lesser price. They mentioned minor wear on rear arm bushes in the video supplied as a possible reason I had been hearing rear squeaks, and mentioned the brake pads are 60% worn (I do low mileage so, no sense replacing them any time soon). So this leaves me looking at 130 for a track rod, 910 for an exhaust including downpipe.

Are these prices realistic? Can't exhaust systems be repaired? Ignoring the advisories, how much would I be looking to get the car fixed elsewhere?  I'm curious to see what you lot say, maybe this is a perfectly normal price, and expected after a service and MOT. I'm a pretty new driver.

 

[Daggerit]

I’m not sure about the actual service cost and what’s involved but I know that you’d be able to get that work done for a lot less if you went to an independent garage.

The exhaust could likely be patched which would save you paying for the most expensive section (since it has the cats in it), and I’m not sure what exactly a ‘worn’ exhaust is and why the rear section would need replaced if it’s not working.

Track rod ends can be bought for £15 so the labour is pretty expensive on that.

Brake fluid change I’d expect to be around the £40 mark.

Again, rear bushes are about £20 so labour is pretty expensive on those, although I’m aware it takes some effort to get them changed. But still.

Overall I think if you took it to an independent garage that was fair, you should really be looking at less than £500 for it all to get fixed, but that’s just an estimate...


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[Lonedev]

1 minute ago, Daggerit said:

I’m not sure about the actual service cost and what’s involved but I know that you’d be able to get that work done for a lot less if you went to an independent garage.

The exhaust could likely be patched which would save you paying for the most expensive section (since it has the cats in it), and I’m not sure what exactly a ‘worn’ exhaust is and why the rear section would need replaced if it’s not working.

Track rod ends can be bought for £15 so the labour is pretty expensive on that.

Brake fluid change I’d expect to be around the £40 mark.

Again, rear bushes are about £20 so labour is pretty expensive on those, although I’m aware it takes some effort to get them changed. But still.

Overall I think if you took it to an independent garage that was fair, you should really be looking at less than £500 for it all to get fixed, but that’s just an estimate...


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That's more in line with what I was thinking. If they quoted thereabouts, I'd have happily paid. I'm content leaving the rear bushes for now. I'd actually asked them to just spray the d-bushes with silicon spray to see if it stops a squeak on road bumps (A tip I picked up on this forum somewhere) which is likely the only reason they've flagged such a minor piece of wear. I doubt they did the requested spray though, given they didn't replace a plastic internal screw cover I asked about either. I guess I can order one of those covers myself for a few pennies somewhere and replace it. 🙄 I'll ask whatever indie I find to do the silicon spray too if it's looking dry!

[Daggerit]

That's more in line with what I was thinking. If they quoted thereabouts, I'd have happily paid. I'm content leaving the rear bushes for now. I'd actually asked them to just spray the d-bushes with silicon spray to see if it stops a squeak on road bumps (A tip I picked up on this forum somewhere) which is likely the only reason they've flagged such a minor piece of wear. I doubt they did the requested spray though, given they didn't replace a plastic internal screw cover I asked about either. I guess I can order one of those covers myself for a few pennies somewhere and replace it. [emoji849] I'll ask whatever indie I find to do the silicon spray too if it's looking dry!

I imagine that unless they’re really quite worn that some silicon spray would certainly help. Hard to give a more useful answer without seeing them in person of course. Haha.

The brake cost made me chuckle too because the parts are ridiculously cheap for these cars so it looks like they’re just taking the mick with the labour.


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[Lonedev]

5 minutes ago, Daggerit said:

I imagine that unless they’re really quite worn that some silicon spray would certainly help. Hard to give a more useful answer without seeing them in person of course. Haha.

The brake cost made me chuckle too because the parts are ridiculously cheap for these cars so it looks like they’re just taking the mick with the labour.

Being the MOT test fail probably found the engine noise issue anyway, the £50 labor for a half hour diagnostic was probably taking the mick as well. I've been laughing too, albeit half nervously... 😅

[TomsFocus]

2 hours ago, Lonedev said:

Being the MOT test fail probably found the engine noise issue anyway, the £50 labor for a half hour diagnostic was probably taking the mick as well. I've been laughing too, albeit half nervously... 😅

£50 for half an hours labour isn't too bad as this is technically a Ford dealer isn't it?  That's also the reason the prices are so high, especially for the exhaust.  Dealers can't repair anything, they're just fitters.  You might be able to get your cat pipe welded up for £50 at a local garage (assuming the pipe doesn't need removing to repair).  Brakes and TRE can be bought much cheaper than the genuine items they're quoting for.  I'd assume (hope!) they've also included wheel alignment in the TRE price, it's likely to be £80 or so if they've got a Hunter machine.

So overall I wouldn't say the price is too bad for a main dealer - but you will be able to get the repairs done much more cheaply elsewhere!

Regarding the screw cap, you'll probably find they don't sell them singly and you'd have to buy a pack of 50 or something!  

[Lonedev]

Exhaust repaired and track rod replaced for £190. That was quite a saving! I even ended up tipping. The flex pipe was the source of the leak so they cut out the old and welded in a new. I asked the mechanic if I needed to get it aligned now and he said no, straight as an arrow... Not convinced as he didn't have a hunter machine in his shop, but perhaps there was down the road where he taken it for the MOT. I think Kwik-fit do an alignment check for free (aligning costs), might do that after I get my new tyre fitted (elsewhere) next week. No idea if I've overpaid, I'm just happy I've a working car and didn't have to pay a grand for the privilege. 😁

[Daggerit]

I’d say that is a fair price for the work done. Good result.

As for the tracking, you can get a very good idea of tracking without something as fancy as a laser alignment setup so it’s not unrealistic that he checked it and was happy with it.

Glad you got it sorted though, and for a lot less than the original quote!


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[Ian Lanc]

On 8/27/2020 at 6:20 AM, Lonedev said:

 I'm content leaving the rear bushes for now. 

Don't ignore these bushes! It's telling you something is wrong! Our car was knocking/clunking very badly on the rear, after finding out what the problem was I fixed them both myself, on removal of the big nut & bolt and dropping the axle down, I could see full well what the noise was and the inner alloy bush had completely broken away from the rubber and was bashing on the axle support, also one bolt was being worn down as the inner bush was banging all over the place, it took me 3 hours to both sides but saved myself a ton of money.
 

 

[Ian Lanc]

On 8/27/2020 at 6:20 AM, Lonedev said:

 I'm content leaving the rear bushes for now. 

If the noise on the back is the bump/bang/clunk noise when going over rough ground or ramps, then I'm pretty sure it's the big bushes, the originals on ours had mushroomed on the ends and was smashing on the steel bracket, this noise gradually came on but within a year it was intolerable, what bothered me is our car is MOT'ed at a ford dealership and not once have they every put it down as an advisory or even fail them.

My old bush [changed both]

 

New bushes, note how the alloy centre section sticks further out than on our car, this is because they was loose and been to hell and back.  

[Lonedev]

5 minutes ago, Ian Lanc said:

Don't ignore these bushes! It's telling you something is wrong! Our car was knocking/clunking very badly on the rear, after finding out what the problem was I fixed them both myself, on removal of the big nut & bolt and dropping the axle down, I could see full well what the noise was and the inner alloy bush had completely broken away from the rubber and was bashing on the axle support, also one bolt was being worn down as the inner bush was banging all over the place, it took me 3 hours to both sides but saved myself a ton of money.
 

 

Oh if they were in need of it I would! My rear bushes are fine so far as I'm aware. I'd requested from the dealership silicone spray on the D ones as there was a squeak from them when over road bumps. That's a common enough fiesta issue, with that silicone spray fix mentioned a few places on this forum (can happen even with new bushes!). Being the ford dealership probably want to make a tonne of money they added the other bushes to the MOT report as a cheeky scare tactic I think, the mechanic in their video (screenshotted below) said they couldn't replicate the sound but that they thought there's a slight chance that wear on the rear bushing's are causing it. Bit of miscommunication between reception and the mechanics when I say "Squeak over road bumps please apply silicone spray on D bushings" turns into an investigation and road test where they can't replicate it and guess it's maybe wear on the other rear bushings. The squeak has been there since I got the car (2 years ago), and it's never shown up on an MOT before, nor the new one I got today after my repair work. Things wear on cars all the time, and reporting that the bushes essentially look used is akin to warning me the car's now 6.  If I ever get a clunk or knock the car'll be straight to a mechanic!  The D bushes have been sprayed now and there's no noise at all from them over bumps. I've added a picture of the ones you're talking about on my car; the ones that are the common cause of the squeak are the D ones (catalogue pic added to show them, they fit on the anti-roll bar).

 

Here's a video of someone replacing the D-bushes, but, I have read of people replacing them and the squeak still being there so seems silicone spray is the way to go!

 

Thanks though for the feedback and effort! It's good to know, even if it's not quite the issue this time, so I appreciate it.

[TomsFocus]

12 hours ago, Lonedev said:

Exhaust repaired and track rod replaced for £190. That was quite a saving! I even ended up tipping. The flex pipe was the source of the leak so they cut out the old and welded in a new. I asked the mechanic if I needed to get it aligned now and he said no, straight as an arrow... Not convinced as he didn't have a hunter machine in his shop, but perhaps there was down the road where he taken it for the MOT. I think Kwik-fit do an alignment check for free (aligning costs), might do that after I get my new tyre fitted (elsewhere) next week. No idea if I've overpaid, I'm just happy I've a working car and didn't have to pay a grand for the privilege. 😁

If you have a National Tyres near you (I mean, presumably they have centres nationally!) they offer a half price alignment voucher online.  It's just a Supertracker rather than Hunter, but only the fronts can be adjusted on the Fiesta anyway.  They also do the free check and it only cost me £15 to have adjusted!  Think the price differs slightly with location but the voucher should work anywhere.

[Ian Lanc]

I'm at a loss here! On the price list it mentions the 'rear suspension bushes worn' and not the front anti roll bar bushes ?

The garage must have spotted the rear worn bushes to come up with that and work out the price, our local dealership quoted me £345 plus parts to fix our car!

Changing the front anti roll bar bushes isn't hard, just awkward,  I did these last year, the silicone temp' fix isn't a good idea if you ask me,so would never do it, I've seen such bushes blasted with silicone and the noise is gone, but what many don't realise is the silicone is lubbing everything up and on one car one bush had moved that much it had actually slid/popped out the bracket, resulting in the most frightening banging noise I'd ever heard.

Our Fiesta is a 10 plate, never abused it and it's only done 50,000 miles from new.

I've fitted two new shock springs [both broke] - Rear anti squeal spring shims broke up & replaced - New springs on the rear suspension - Rear suspension arm bushes - Anti roll bar bushes - Both front wishbones - New discs & pads [warped] - Two alloy wheels........ Suspension on a Ford is the bestest going for quality and sometimes wished we'd never got the car, but I suppose the terrible roads don't help, next thing on the 'fix list' is the exhaust, it looks terrible with bad rust but that's what I'd expect to see on any car for being 10 years old.

[Lonedev]

8 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

If you have a National Tyres near you (I mean, presumably they have centres nationally!) they offer a half price alignment voucher online.  It's just a Supertracker rather than Hunter, but only the fronts can be adjusted on the Fiesta anyway.  They also do the free check and it only cost me £15 to have adjusted!  Think the price differs slightly with location but the voucher should work anywhere.

Oh, seems I do! That sounds worth a go! Good shout.

10 minutes ago, Ian Lanc said:

I'm at a loss here! On the price list it mentions the 'rear suspension bushes worn' and not the front anti roll bar bushes ?

Yes, they also sent a video of the mechanic talking where, I quote "...couldn't hear a noise on the road test, if there is, a slight change of wear on the rear bushing might be causing an outside noise".  So I legitimately think the mention of it on the MOT was a scare tactic by the manager above. Or covering their rears.

The garage must have spotted the rear worn bushes to come up with that and work out the price, our local dealership quoted me £345 plus parts to fix our car!
They didn't. I told them I wanted a spray on the REAR d bushes to fix a squeak, there are two roll bars on the car so far as I'm aware. 'Rear D bushes' is what I'm parroting from the other places I read. The miscommunication between reception and workshop turned it into an investigation of a problem instead of doing my request.

Changing the front anti roll bar bushes isn't hard, just awkward,  I did these last year, the silicone temp' fix isn't a good idea if you ask me,so would never do it, I've seen such bushes blasted with silicone and the noise is gone, but what many don't realise is the silicone is lubbing everything up and on one car one bush had moved that much it had actually slid/popped out the bracket, resulting in the most frightening banging noise I'd ever heard.

If a bang happens it'll be straight to a mechanic, as new D bushes can also squeak I'm happy to risk the silicone spray for now. 

Feline contribution to replies -> ;/'[;#]

Our Fiesta is a 10 plate, never abused it and it's only done 50,000 miles from new.

I've fitted two new shock springs [both broke] - Rear anti squeal spring shims broke up & replaced - New springs on the rear suspension - Rear suspension arm bushes - Anti roll bar bushes - Both front wishbones - New discs & pads [warped] - Two alloy wheels........ Suspension on a Ford is the bestest going for quality and sometimes wished we'd never got the car, but I suppose the terrible roads don't help, next thing on the 'fix list' is the exhaust, it looks terrible with bad rust but that's what I'd expect to see on any car for being 10 years old.

I wish I had a place I could work on my car like that, I'd love tinkering to keep things pristine. It'd be quite expensive though for me to go to garages to replace things with normal wear and tear, so unfortunately the economical thing is usually to wait for a fault or for things to be near end of life. The brake disks are safe, but show signs of corrosion right now. It was sitting for four months barely driven (Yay covid!) which means normal rust wasn't getting taken off through braking. I know they'll need replaced eventually because of this. The pads are also 60% worn. Perfectly safe, and they'll do a lot more miles still, nowhere near the pin of squealing doom. If I had means to tinker the lot would probably be swapped in a weekend job!  I bought this car knowing it wasn't as reliable as a toyota, the drive for buying it was the combination of nice handling, cheap readily available parts, decent performance (ecoboost), economical to run (I can get 40ish in the city, my last long journey (part winding country roads, part motorway) averaged 58.5 mpg).  Thankfully I've not had any issues up until this exhaust leak and track rod end!

 

 

[Guy Heaton]

Trouble with any main dealer is they can only go by the book.  A good independent can segment the job and only do what really needs doing.

[Lonedev]

Got a couple of pics of a front brake disc today whilst the tyre was being changed. Do they look all that worn as advised on the MOT?  The back seems to have a bit of rust on it but, is that too deep to come off through normal braking at this point? Even then, how long would it take to become 'an issue'? The disks look plenty thick so I'm doubtful they've lost much braking capacity. Maybe I should drive more spiritedly for a bit, make the brakes work harder to get that rust off?

[MarksST]

They measure the thickness of the disc, that’s how they give a % wear figure, if they are genuine ford discs they measurement when they would be replaced is on the rim next to,the centre bore.

Ford dealers are only going to use Ford parts, you can get cheaper parts elsewhere but they may be cheaper for a reason. 
 

Ford dealers labour rates are more than an independent garage, that’s because their running costs are a lot higher.

 

why did you go to a dealer for a service and MoT? service plan? 
 

Find a MoT tester that only does MoTs, IMO they are then not trying to make work for themselves.

[isetta]

I wouldn't replace them. can't see how much thickness left on pads but assume you looked at same time. Main ford dealer said my front pads were in 'urgent' need of replacement at 22k miles. They gave me hard sell. I flatly said No. I knew it was a lie as I had checked them myself not long before that. I did another 30k before I replaced the pads and even then they had a bit more left on them.  On my previous Fiesta the front pads lasted 77k  but they were very thin at that point. 

If your discs/pads were not perfectly safe it would not pass the mot. 

Of course pads/disc wear is not just down to mileage, also includes type of roads and style of driver, but also if rust forms in between every journey then you lose some disc and pad every time it clears the rust. Not much but it all adds up. 

 

[Lonedev]

7 hours ago, MarksST said:

They measure the thickness of the disc, that’s how they give a % wear figure, if they are genuine ford discs they measurement when they would be replaced is on the rim next to,the centre bore.

Ford dealers are only going to use Ford parts, you can get cheaper parts elsewhere but they may be cheaper for a reason. 
 

Ford dealers labour rates are more than an independent garage, that’s because their running costs are a lot higher.

 

why did you go to a dealer for a service and MoT? Service plan? 
 

Find a MoT tester that only does MoTs, IMO they are then not trying to make work for themselves.

The car was due a major service so figured I'd get it all done there since it'd guarantee the right oil, OEM parts. My last MOT was a council place, of course as I wasn't so certain this one would pass I figured I'd get it done at the same time as the service. I'd love to find a nice trustworthy garage in Glasgow for MOTs that will use OEM parts at a reasonable price, but no idea where to go! Maybe hard to have my cake and eat it too when it comes to that?

[MarksST]

1 minute ago, Lonedev said:

The car was due a major service so figured I'd get it all done there since it'd guarantee the right oil, OEM parts. My last MOT was a council place, of course as I wasn't so certain this one would pass I figured I'd get it done at the same time as the service. I'd love to find a nice trustworthy garage in Glasgow for MOTs that will use OEM parts at a reasonable price, but no idea where to go! Maybe hard to have my cake and eat it too when it comes to that?

Buy the service parts yourself and ask them to fit them.

[Lonedev]

2 minutes ago, MarksST said:

Buy the service parts yourself and ask them to fit them.

Yeah I might try that. I'd heard 'mechanics worth their salt won't accept parts from customers' but, I'm sure I'd find someone to do that easy enough.