MK2 1.8 TDCi coolant leak

[FatHead1979]

Hi all, I got a bit of shock today when without warning I got the "engine temp high" warning whilst on my way to Meadowhell.  Pulled over ASAP, engine off, checked the expansion tank, bone dry , look under the car and see a small amount of fluid dripping off the driver's side of the undertray.....SH*T

A 3 mile walk later to get some water (petrol station), filled it up, started the engine and kept topping it up.  Eventually the water level started to only decrease slightly and the rate the water was flowing off the undertray reduced.  So kind of good news seeing as the 4 litres of water hadn't all shot straight back out, oh and I didn't have any tools with me so I couldn't get the undertray off to get a better luck.

On the 25 minute journey home I stopped midway and checked the coolant level, which had only dropped a couple of inches so topped it up again and got home without any further dramas.  Checked the coolant level once home and it hadn't moved so I'm hoping the root cause is just the thermostat housing seeing as the leak only seems to happen when the engine is up to temp (I grandma drove it home to help keep the temps down).

I'm not in the mood to deal with it today but tomorrow I'm planning to get it up on the ramps, get it nice and warm and wait for the water show to start.  I'm really hoping it's just the thermostat housing because if it's the water pump (which I think runs of the timing belt) I not fancying paying for a cambelt/tensioner/water pump change 🤞.  She might well be off the scrappy if so , which would be a shame really as the car's only ever let me stranded once in 8 years (I'm not counting today seeing as I managed to get home 😁) and at 15.5 years old I really can't complain.

I'll post back with an update and pics once I've had a good look at it.

[williamweb]

On 10/10/2020 at 3:43 PM, 1979Damian said:

Hi all, I got a bit of shock today when without warning I got the "engine temp high" warning whilst on my way to Meadowhell.  Pulled over ASAP, engine off, checked the expansion tank, bone dry , look under the car and see a small amount of fluid dripping off the driver's side of the undertray.....SH*T

A 3 mile walk later to get some water (petrol station), filled it up, started the engine and kept topping it up.  Eventually the water level started to only decrease slightly and the rate the water was flowing off the undertray reduced.  So kind of good news seeing as the 4 litres of water hadn't all shot straight back out, oh and I didn't have any tools with me so I couldn't get the undertray off to get a better luck.

On the 25 minute journey home I stopped midway and checked the coolant level, which had only dropped a couple of inches so topped it up again and got home without any further dramas.  Checked the coolant level once home and it hadn't moved so I'm hoping the root cause is just the thermostat housing seeing as the leak only seems to happen when the engine is up to temp (I grandma drove it home to help keep the temps down).

I'm not in the mood to deal with it today but tomorrow I'm planning to get it up on the ramps, get it nice and warm and wait for the water show to start.  I'm really hoping it's just the thermostat housing because if it's the water pump (which I think runs of the timing belt) I not fancying paying for a cambelt/tensioner/water pump change 🤞.  She might well be off the scrappy if so , which would be a shame really as the car's only ever let me stranded once in 8 years (I'm not counting today seeing as I managed to get home 😁) and at 15.5 years old I really can't complain.

I'll post back with an update and pics once I've had a good look at it. 

 

 

[williamweb]

No idea what happened there to my little story😳

[williamweb]

 so to continue, I’ve had my MK 1 nearly 11 years and like you hasn’t really let me down ,although there was one time that I also don’t count😁 I drifted into a Ford garage with engine failure due to a blocked fuel filter.

[Ned_Mk2_1.8tdci]

2 hours ago, 1979Damian said:

Hi all, I got a bit of shock today when without warning I got the "engine temp high" warning whilst on my way to Meadowhell.  Pulled over ASAP, engine off, checked the expansion tank, bone dry , look under the car and see a small amount of fluid dripping off the driver's side of the undertray.....SH*T

A 3 mile walk later to get some water (petrol station), filled it up, started the engine and kept topping it up.  Eventually the water level started to only decrease slightly and the rate the water was flowing off the undertray reduced.  So kind of good news seeing as the 4 litres of water hadn't all shot straight back out, oh and I didn't have any tools with me so I couldn't get the undertray off to get a better luck.

On the 25 minute journey home I stopped midway and checked the coolant level, which had only dropped a couple of inches so topped it up again and got home without any further dramas.  Checked the coolant level once home and it hadn't moved so I'm hoping the root cause is just the thermostat housing seeing as the leak only seems to happen when the engine is up to temp (I grandma drove it home to help keep the temps down).

I'm not in the mood to deal with it today but tomorrow I'm planning to get it up on the ramps, get it nice and warm and wait for the water show to start.  I'm really hoping it's just the thermostat housing because if it's the water pump (which I think runs of the timing belt) I not fancying paying for a cambelt/tensioner/water pump change 🤞.  She might well be off the scrappy if so , which would be a shame really as the car's only ever let me stranded once in 8 years (I'm not counting today seeing as I managed to get home 😁) and at 15.5 years old I really can't complain.

I'll post back with an update and pics once I've had a good look at it.

1.8 tdci water pump is driven by an auxiliary belt, unlike 1.6 tdci. There's a bit of work to remove the water pump but I would say it's worth it. Suggest to get SKF water pump as a replacement.

[FatHead1979]

23 hours ago, Ned_Mk2_1.8tdci said:

1.8 tdci water pump is driven by an auxiliary belt, unlike 1.6 tdci. There's a bit of work to remove the water pump but I would say it's worth it. Suggest to get SKF water pump as a replacement.

So it's only driven off the aux belt, if so that's not as bad as expected.  I'll see how I get on but if I do decide to have the pump/cambelt/tensioner etc done it will definitely be a decent brand such as Gates/SKF etc.  I 100% don't believe in fitting cheapo  parts, it's just false economy.

[FatHead1979]

Okay so here's the not very cheerful update.  I fitted a good quality replacement thermostat and housing (Febi Bilstein) without any major problems and took the car for a spin to see if the issue was fixed.  Once the temperature gauge was just below the middle i.e. up to temp I pulled over and checked under the car for any coolant leaking off the undertray.  There wasn't any leaks so I thought we were sorted, then remembered the thermostat on the Lynx engine doesn't open until about 98'C so give it a bit of boot for 5 mins (3.5K RPM in a lower gear), checked for leaks.....and yup, we had a leak.

 

I've just dropped it off at my local garage so they can get it up on ramps and work out where the leak is coming from (Frankly I'm not ***** about on my street with the car on ramps when it's less than 10'C outside!).  Fingers crossed it's not p***ing out of the engine block! 

 

I didn't take any pics because I needed to get the job done before it started slinging it down with rain and to be honest, there's a better vid/guide than I could have done here.

 

[TomsFocus]

98c stat on a diesel!?  Heaters should be good on the 1.8 TDCi then!

My guess is radiator if it's only leaking once the stat opens...

[charliewade71]

Hi i had a similar issue with a 2008 1.8TDCI that one lost coolant and seemed to be around the expansion tank the previous owner had replaced the expansion tank, thermostat and housing but to no avail. After some disasembly it turned out to the be the gasket on the water pump !!! this was a paper or fibre one and had degraded and was leaking coolant. so a new gasket and pump were fitted and bingo no leaks its a bit of a tight squeeze to change but worth the hassle did the good old wet belt at the same time too 

hope that helps 

[Ned_Mk2_1.8tdci]

7 hours ago, charliewade71 said:

Hi i had a similar issue with a 2008 1.8TDCI that one lost coolant and seemed to be around the expansion tank the previous owner had replaced the expansion tank, thermostat and housing but to no avail. After some disasembly it turned out to the be the gasket on the water pump !!! this was a paper or fibre one and had degraded and was leaking coolant. so a new gasket and pump were fitted and bingo no leaks its a bit of a tight squeeze to change but worth the hassle did the good old wet belt at the same time too 

hope that helps 

This is why I advise to use SKF water pump, not any other. Engine block is made of cast iron and original Ford water pump is aluminium. Original gasket is made of metal to compensate for different thermal expansion btw iron and alu. SKF part is identical as Ford pump (except of the impeller color) and is sold with new metal gasket.

[FatHead1979]

Okay, so the latest update from the garage isn't good news.  The water pump is leaking, as already noted it only leaks when the coolant get really hot so the increased pressure must be just enough to force it's way past the gasket.

 

With the car driving as well as it currently does (always starts 1st time and stops, goes and corners like a Focus half it's age) I've instructed my local (trusted) indi to go ahead and do the whole job (cambelt, tensioner, pump etc).  It "was" overdue for the cambelt so I'll console myself with the knowledge that I won't have to worry about the engine lunching itself in the remaining years I keep the car.

 

With my engine being the older "lower chain" version, at least I don't have the additional cost of renewing the lower wet belt.  (I'm attempting to take the glass half full approach 😭)

[Ned_Mk2_1.8tdci]

3 hours ago, 1979Damian said:

Okay, so the latest update from the garage isn't good news.  The water pump is leaking, as already noted it only leaks when the coolant get really hot so the increased pressure must be just enough to force it's way past the gasket.

 

With the car driving as well as it currently does (always starts 1st time and stops, goes and corners like a Focus half it's age) I've instructed my local (trusted) indi to go ahead and do the whole job (cambelt, tensioner, pump etc).  It "was" overdue for the cambelt so I'll console myself with the knowledge that I won't have to worry about the engine lunching itself in the remaining years I keep the car.

 

With my engine being the older "lower chain" version, at least I don't have the additional cost of renewing the lower wet belt.  (I'm attempting to take the glass half full approach 😭)

When I did my wet belt also did the water pump as well. 

When changing the cam belt, inspect and replace the gasket at the fuel pump as well. 

In the half full glass add some ice cubes and say 'cheers'!!! This is the best one.

[Tdci-Peter]

On 10/16/2020 at 1:28 PM, FatHead1979 said:

it only leaks when the coolant get really hot so the increased pressure must be just enough to force it's way past the gasket.

The stat on my 1.8 opens at 80C, and that seems fine for the car. It only goes above 80C when pulling a heavy load up a steep hill.

A temp. change might get you through the Winter. There is a big difference in the pressure needed to hold in the water at 80c vs 98c

I did not know you could change user name & keep the profile etc. I have thought about changing mine from time to time, it was chosen in a hurry, a long time ago now. It did confuse me for a few minutes - Though that is pretty easy to do!

[TomsFocus]

1 hour ago, Tdci-Peter said:

I did not know you could change user name & keep the profile etc. I have thought about changing mine from time to time, it was chosen in a hurry, a long time ago now. It did confuse me for a few minutes - Though that is pretty easy to do!

You're not the only one!  I read a couple of posts on other threads earlier today...seemed to be in Damian's 'accent' and very similar profile picture but with a different name...  'What a strange coincidence' I thought...have only just realised!!

 

[FatHead1979]

Apologies to @Tdci-Peter and @TomsFocus, I fancied a change so went for my nickname when I used to work on the tools (not the 1979 part obviously).  I couldn't find the facility to change it within the site so emailed the admin and to be fair I got a very quick AND helpful response, once I'd confirmed what I wanted it to be it was changed promptly.  On a vaguely related note, I can't imagine there are many 2005 MK2 saloon Focus still kicking about and I suspect my "distinctive" avatar rather gave the game away!

 

Good news (famous last words) regarding my car, I picked it up from the garage today and no more leaks.  I even gave it a 20 minute 3-4K RPM beasting  to REALLY get it hot and thankfully it didn't leak.  Surprisingly the "old" Ford cambelt that came off my car looked almost new, even the teeth didn't really show any signs of wear so credit to whoever the OEM was that manufactured it.  I don't think I'd fancy the chances of a wet belt making it to a similar mileage!

 

@Tdci-Peter I double checked and my new thermostat is supposed to open at 88'C not the 98'C I mentioned previously.  Incidentally, the car's had it's final warning (not that it's ever really caused me a lot of problems but at 15 years old stops making sense if it starts costing £££ on a regular basis.  Despite driving superbly now, as I've gradually chipped away at tired suspension bushes/shocks etc over the last 2 years, any more big bills and it's off to the scrappy.  Ironically, due to Covid I've been working from home since the middle of March, so dropping down to 1 car wouldn't be the end of the world.  Problem is, it drives so well now I'd loath to see it go. 

 

All's well that ends well, oh and cheers for the various pointers/suggestions that people have made! 

[Tdci-Peter]

24 minutes ago, FatHead1979 said:

my new thermostat is supposed to open at 88'C

I looked back at the email data from when I bought mine, in 2013 (yes, I still have them!) It was also rated at 88c. My temperature indication system always says about 80c when I can detect it opens, but there could be a few degrees error there. I seem to recall doing the old saucepan test with a thermometer, but can't recall the result. It was 7 years ago though!

My cambelt is due for a change too, I must book it in! Too cold for me to do it outdoors now, and I haven't got all the tools and stuff I need. It has been on 9 years, though its only done about 62,000 miles. I would be very sad to see this car go to scrap, it has served me better than any car before, despite numerous little problems.

 

[FatHead1979]

AAAAAAND................now my front wipers don't work (never had an issue with them before).

 

All other stalk functions work normally i.e. the screen washers but even when I use the screen washers it doesn't trigger the automatic wiper sweep.  When I try to trigger the wipers using the stalk, I can hear a tick/click from the GEM so it seems that the stalk is working.  I've checked the fuse (20 amp) all good, pulled each of the connectors off the GEM and resat them, also checked for corrosion but everything looked nice and dry.

 

Looks like tomorrow's job will be taking the wipers/scuttle panel off and get the old multi-meter out and tomorrows weather forecast is for rain (obviously)! 🤬 

[FatHead1979]

Okay, so a quick update.  Me being me I couldn't let things lie, so I fired up good old Forscan and checked the GEM section for any PIDs relating to the wipers.  Thankfully there way a PID for each of the available settings and each PID displayed the expected value when checked, so the good news is the GEM is getting the correct signals from the stalk.

 

Tomorrow's questions will be IS there a signal getting to the motor and if not is there a signal coming out of the GEM/BCM (at a push there could be a break in the loom between the GEM and the wiper motor).

 

Does anyone have any idea which cables on which multiplugs are for the various wipers settings so I can put a multimeter on them?  (I'm really hoping it's just the motor that  itself, I'm not sure I can do with the hassle and expense of replacing the GEM).

 

Before I forget, Forscan did initially pick up 2 DTCs that took 3 attempts to clear, once cleared I had the ignition on/off a few times and kept rescanning but couldn't get them to reoccur, the codes were:

• U0423 - Invalid data received from instrument panel control module
• U0422 - Invalid data received from body control module (Status: malfunction is expected to be confirmed)

Obviously I thought "oh crap" (not quite the words I used), it's either the infamous cluster solder issue or the GEM, I guess I'll find out more tomorrow!

[TomsFocus]

Did the garage have to remove the scuttle for access at all?  Might just have left the wiper arms loose?

[FatHead1979]

13 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Did the garage have to remove the scuttle for access at all?  Might just have left the wiper arms loose?

Not as far as I know, I saw it before it was reassembled and the scuttle panel was in place along with the wipers.  I also can't hear the wiper motors but you make a good point, I'll make sure I check whether the spindles are turning from OUTSIDE the car just in case they're just really loose and slipping. 👍

[mjt]

It could possibly be the wiper relay in the GEM. Unfortunately this is a PCB relay soldered in. I've never had a GEM opened up so can't say if it's practicable to replace it.

 

[FatHead1979]

Quick update, I've removed the wiper linkage and multi meter confirms 12V signal across multiple pins on the connector block.

 

My current part number is 4M51-17504-BB I don't suppose anyone happens to know what the difference is between my part and a part ending BC i.e. is it like a BCM/GEM where as long as the part number is equal to OR greater than the original it'll work fine?

 

Once I could see the wiper motor I wasn't surprised that it looks like the motor is the culprit, 4 of the clips that holder the plastic cover for the motor in place were NOT seated and there was a gap that at it's widest was at least 8mm, so plenty of space for moisture to get it.  Fingers crossed that a cheap used replacement is the fix!

 

*Edit - Replacement (exactly the same part number) should be here for Saturday, I'll update once it's fitted 🤞*

Edited October 21, 2020 by FatHead1979
Confirmed replacement part ordered

[FatHead1979]

Hopefully my final update for a while!  The replacement wiper assembly came today so obviously I sacked work off to test it........Good news, it's all working! 

 

Although whilst I was putting everything back together I noticed that when putting the 1st part of the scuttle panel back in place (the part that screws in place at each end), the rear edge comes rather close to the black plastic cover on the wiper motor, so if the garage DID remove the scuttle panel when they did the cambelt they could easily have accidentally knocked the motor cover way off when refitting the scuttle panel.

 

The replacement part only cost £12.50 so I'll take that over having to source an appropriate GEM and have a go at reprogramming it.  Now for a celebratory thrash!