[MK3] Upgrading instrument cluster

[Steevo25]

I will hazard a guess here based on previous experience. The key word here is FoCCCus. 

I have had many problems with FoCCCus using it on a MK3.5. Since the IPC is from a MK3.5 then it doesn't surprise me that FoCCCus could possibly have issues. It just wasn't developed for a MK3.5 unfortunately. 

Probably the best way if you want to use FoCCCus is only write to the BCM with it, then to copy the BCM config to the IPC use something like Forscan. 

[jlawes20389]

Would agree with Steevo. I would imagine focccus is most likely not compatible with the MK3.5 IPC. Forscan or ucds will be your best bet. 

A MK3.5 Module should bring back the the chimes as I understand it

[Steevo25]

I just started a thread regarding a MK3.5 Upgrade in a MK3 but maybe more appropriate to post here rather than having multiple threads.

What are the other issues associated with putting a MK3.5 cluster in a MK3?

I understand the parking chime issue and on mine it isn't going ti be an issue as I will have a MK3.5 PAM. 

But what are the issues other than parking beeps and are there solutions to them?

[jlawes20389]

The only other issue I'm aware of is that the interior and instrument cluster light dimming will no longer work but other than that I'm not aware myself of any other issues.

One of the other things is the colour scheme will be different and won't match the radio displat but having read your thread I see that you've upgraded to sync 3 so that won't matter.

[Steevo25]

I take it there is no solution to get the dimming working? To be honest, I don't think I have ever touched the dimming in any car I have owned. It's usually on full all the time. I have never had a reason to dim it. I assume it just stays on full. 

It would be nice to find a solution just so everything is working. 

[Guest]

Thanks guys, very much appreciated.

[Guest]

On 3/16/2021 at 11:15 PM, Steevo25 said:

I take it there is no solution to get the dimming working? To be honest, I don't think I have ever touched the dimming in any car I have owned. It's usually on full all the time. I have never had a reason to dim it. I assume it just stays on full. 

It would be nice to find a solution just so everything is working. 

Forgive my ignorance, is there such a thing as a lighting control module? If so could that be the solution?

[JW1982]

All lights are fully controlled by the BCM. The light switch itself is basically a LINbus module that communicates (one way) over a single wire to the BCM. The light switch only communicates the switch/button status and the actual switching is performed completely by the BCM.

Whether the interior light dimming works correctly or not when a Focus MK3.5 instrument cluster (or MK3 instrument cluster with MK3.5 software) is installed depends on the type of BCM. Later MK3 versions have a newer type of BCM that is also used on early MK3.5 versions. On this type of BCM the interior dimming remains fully functional.

In the past I performed several tests. I have a 2014 USA MK3 instrument cluster that is fully converted to European specs using European dial plates and software. My 2013 Focus MK3 has the later BCM type. When I install the MK3.5 software my interior dimming remains fully functional. When properly configured the interior dimming menu of the MK3.5 instrument cluster software can even be disabled.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, JW1982 said:

All lights are fully controlled by the BCM. The light switch itself is basically a LINbus module that communicates (one way) over a single wire to the BCM. The light switch only communicates the switch/button status and the actual switching is performed completely by the BCM.

Whether the interior light dimming works correctly or not when a Focus MK3.5 instrument cluster (or MK3 instrument cluster with MK3.5 software) is installed depends on the type of BCM. Later MK3 versions have a newer type of BCM that is also used on early MK3.5 versions. On this type of BCM the interior dimming remains fully functional.

In the past I performed several tests. I have a 2014 USA MK3 instrument cluster that is fully converted to European specs using European dial plates and software. My 2013 Focus MK3 has the later BCM type. When I install the MK3.5 software my interior dimming remains fully functional. When properly configured the interior dimming menu of the MK3.5 instrument cluster software can even be disabled.

Not that I'm ever likely to attempt it but, out of interest, can a newer BCM be retro-fitted?

[Steevo25]

Since upgrading the cluster to a MK3.5 and also upgrading the PAM to a MK3.5, I do have one issue remaining. 

My front sensors don't seem to work. The park assist works perfectly and it parallel parks perfectly and park out works perfectly. But if I press the front parking sensor button then the LED on the button illuminates, but nothing else happens. No display or beeps. If I am in reverse, the rear camera display works and it shows the flank guard all the way around but the fronts show nothing. If I then press the front parking sensor button, the display just disappears off the screen (Sync 3). If I press it again then the display comes back but only rears functional. The PAM module is F1ET-15K866-BJ so full park assist. The fronts must be doing something as parallel parking works perfectly. 

The AsBuilt for the PAM I have even tried copying from another Focus that has the same setup as mine. 

Any ideas. 

[Steevo25]

Well I have tried everything I can think of to get the front parking sensors to show up, but nothing seems to do it. Has anyone else got front parking sensors on a MK3 that has been upgraded to Sync 3 and has the MK3.5 cluster and PAM. 

I have also noticed a subtle wiring difference between the MK3 and MK3.5 on the PAM module. On the MK3 there are 4 wires that go between the PAM and the console switch. Front parking switch, Front parking LED, SAPP switch and SAPP LED.

On the MK3.5, the SAPP LED wire from the console switch no longer goes to the PAM, it seems to go to the BCM instead. 

Perhaps @JW1982 can throw some light on all this. As it stands, everything works except the front parking sensors. Before I upgraded, the front parking sensors used to turn on when I put the car in reverse, this no longer happens. 

The only thing I have not done is change the central car configuration parking assistance option to enhanced. It it set to front/rear with SAPP. Currently I am using 10 sensors. 6 at the front and 4 at the rear. I do have 6 installed in the rear but the two side rear ones are not connected yet so the PAM is set to 10 sensors with perpendicular park disabled. 

[Steevo25]

Still no luck. This morning I updated the firmware on the IPC and APIM. The PAM, IPC and APIM are now all at the latest versions. 

The good news is that my instrument dimming now works after updating the IPC. 

For anyone doing this, if you only have rear sensors, the upgrade works perfectly. But front sensors do not seem to work on their own. Parking assistance also works perfect on parallel park and park out. I have not tried perpendicular parking yet as I have to run 2 wires before the additional two rear sensors are connected. 

So the only issue is that the front parking sensors don't seem to switch on. When you press the front parking sensor button, the LED on the switch illuminates but nothing happens. The display does not change and no beeps. Also, if the front parking sensor button is on, the flank guard and vehicle graphic disappear from the display until you turn it off. 

It also seems that the PAM is not detecting when the car is placed in to reverse as the front parking sensors should switch on as well as the rears when you place the car in to reverse but they don't (LED does not illuminate). I am not sure on the communication chain here. 

A couple of questions that someone maybe able to answer, maybe @JW1982.

Now I have a MK3.5 PAM, IPC and APIM, I assume the PDC architecture has to be set to CGEA rather than C1MCA?

Also, in the PAM configuration under the parking sensor (UPA) section, there is a parameter called CANSwitchHost which is currently set to none. It can be FCM1A or FCM1B. What does this do?

[Steevo25]

I thought I would post one final update for anyone wishing to carry out this mod. Unless anyone else has anything to add or has any other ideas then I guess this is how it is.

It seems that having a MK3.5 instrument cluster and MK3.5 PAM in a MK3 car is not completely compatible. They do not seem to talk correctly to other module(s) in the car. It's probably the BCM.

So here is a summary of what you get and what you lose if you want to do this.

Firstly, in my car (which is a Focus 2014 1.6TDCI Titanium), I have upgraded to Sync 3 V3.4, 12 parking sensors (6 front, 6 rear) and now have a MK3.5 IPC (F1ET-10849-BMR) and a MK3.5 Park Assist PAM (F1ET-15K866-BJ). The APIM, IPC and PAM are all upgraded to the latest firmware available.

If you have no parking sensors then this upgrade works perfectly. Just slot in a MK3.5 IPC or upgrade your MK3 IPC with MK3.5 firmware files and away you go. You will gain the digital speedo and also get the compass if you have a GPSM module installed (which I do). Depending on your BCM level, you may even keep the instrument dimming.

If you have only rear parking sensors then you can do the same as above and replace the MK3 PAM with a MK3.5 PAM and it works as before. You just need to change the PDC architecture in the APIM to CGEA.

If you have front sensors then this is where the compatibility issues start. For Park Assist, this works perfectly (if you add 2 sensors at the back, then you also gain perpendicular park). But with the standard 4 sensor rear setup, you get parallel park and park out. It is actually even better if you have Sync 3 as you get the full Sync 3 integration with on-screen buttons for the Park Assist. With the MK3 setup and Sync 3, you don't get all the button options on the Sync 3 screen and if you try and set them on, you just get a 'Cancelled by user' error message when you press the Park Assist button.

But you now lose the use of independent front parking sensors. The front parking sensor button kind of turns in to a disable button. When you press the button, the LED illuminates but it actually switches off the sensor system and the display disappears from the Sync 3 screen. Also, the LED does not respond to reverse gear and vehicle speed. But the front sensors do seem to work while you are in reverse. So if you are reversing in to a space, the front sensors do beep if the front of the car is close to something. However, the front sensors do stop beeping as soon as you come out of reverse.

It may be the case that a firmware upgrade of the BCM may well get these final compatibility issues working, but I didn't want to take the risk of uploading a different firmware to the BCM to try just in case it all went wrong. Plus both Forscan and UCDS suggested vastly different firmware files (see pictures below).

So that's about where I am. Unless someone can suggest a solution for the front parking sensor issue then this is about as far as I can go. So if you get the same as me, you have to decide which bits are more important to you and whether to stay as is or go back to the MK3 setup.

 

[JPW]

Great work. Is it worth swapping for an MK3.5 BCM (plug and play) and then you can always swap back...

[Steevo25]

Not that easy. The key data is stored in the BCM so if I swap it then I will have to pay a small fortune to Ford to program in all the keys. 

Plus, this may be an on-going chain of upgrading modules. If I put in a MK3.5 BCM then there may be another existing module that isn't compatible with a MK3.5 BCM. All for the sake of getting a digital speedo. 

But the Sync 3 integration is much better using the MK3.5 PAM. 

[Steevo25]

Sorry to post yet again and dominate this thread, that was not my intention but I have just found out what a complete idiot I have been.

I didn't realise, the MK3.5 front parking sensor system works very different to the MK3 system.

I was just putting out our rubbish, as it's rubbish collection day tomorrow, and my wife just happened to come back from the shop in the car. She was sitting in the car with the engine running and she said to me that as I was walking across the front of the car, she was getting a display come up and beeping. So I started putting things in front of the car and sure enough as I positioned a wheelie bin in different positions around the front of the car, the Flank guard would spring up and bleep.

So I thought I would do one of those things that a man never does, and that's download a copy of the owners manual for a MK3.5 2017 which is where most of my parts came from.

Here is what it says:

Sensor coverage area is up to 28 in (70 cm) from the front bumper and 6–14 in (15–35 cm) to the side of the front bumper.

If the transmission is in reverse (R), the front sensing system provides audible warnings when the vehicle is moving and the detected obstacle is moving towards the vehicle. Once the vehicle is stationary, the audible warning will be stopped after 2 seconds.

If the transmission is in any forward gear, the front sensing system provides audible warnings when the vehicle is moving and an obstacle is located inside the detection area. Once the vehicle is stationary, the audible warning stops after 2 seconds and the visual warning stops after 4 seconds.

The system detects objects when:

• Your vehicle is moving forward at low speed.
• Your vehicle is moving forward at low speed and an object is approaching the front of your vehicle at a low speed.

Press the parking aid button to switch the system off. If a fault is present in the system, a warning message appears in the information display and does not allow you to switch the system on. 

So basically, the MK3.5 works completely opposite to the MK3. The front sensor system activates automatically when you go slow and you use the parking sensor switch to switch the system off. The button is a disable button and not an activation button.

On the MK3, the front parking sensor system only turns on when you are either in reverse or you turn it on by pressing the parking sensor switch. 

So essentially, it all works and I have been chasing around trying to find out why the front parking sensor button was not working.

Two days wasted chasing a problem that didn't exist. The whole system is working for both parking sensors and active park assist.

[Guest]

Evening Guys. Just a note on the instrument dimming: whilst it doesn't work by using the knob at the light switch, it does however work from the settings menu (vehicle settings - lighting - dimming)

If I may ask a couple of questions: Firstly my car (2012 C Max) has automatic rain sensing wipers but within settings if I enable these, they immediately disable themselves. They may well work, but as it's a dry day I have been unable to test them.

Secondly I still have no reversing chimes (I have fitted a MK3.5 PAM (rear only) architecture is set to CGEA. I do have the Park Pilot graphics on my sync 3 screen (working correctly) just no chimes. Any ideas.

[Steevo25]

The dimming on my car does work from the knob on the light switch. I think it depends on your BCM version. I don't even get the menu item on the IPC for dimming. But there is a setting in the AsBuilt configuration that states it only enables the menu item if the dimming knob is undetectable. 

For your chimes, this is done through the IPC. There are some settings in the AsBuilt for the IPC for parking sensor chimes but mainly the pitch for front and rear sensors. 

Do you have the AsBuilt for you PAM? There are settings in the PAM to allow chimes. 

Not sure on the rain sensing wipers. I do know that they can disable themselves if they detect a fault or cannot talk to the rain sensor. But that usually results in a DTC. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Steevo25 said:

Do you have the AsBuilt for you PAM?

Hi Stephen, no I don't but I'm sure I can find one.

As I said the wipers may still work normally. Shouldn't have to wait too long for a rainy day.

Certainly no DTC's for the wipers.

[Steevo25]

Did you change the PAM for a MK3.5 PAM?

If you just replaced the cluster, you will not get chimes. The MK3 and MK3.5 clusters work very differently for parking sensors.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Steevo25 said:

Did you change the PAM for a MK3.5 PAM?

If you just replaced the cluster, you will not get chimes. The MK3 and MK3.5 clusters work very differently for parking sensors.

Yes. cluster and PAM F1ET 15K866 AG (rear only)

[Steevo25]

I can only tell you what I had to do on mine to get everything working. I had to upgrade the firmware on my cluster to the latest version and I also had to upgrade my PAM firmware. Then I had to change a bit of the configuration on the PAM. But mine is full park assist so there are lots of config options for that. For rears only with a rear only module, there shouldn't really be anything to change but worth checking. 

Do you get any chimes for anything on your IPC (door open etc)?

[Guest]

Chimes for everything else appear to be working.

[Steevo25]

One thing I have found out about these PAMs is although the physical part numbers are the same, the have slightly different firmware on them depending on the car they came out of (and they do have different finis codes).

My PAM is F1ET-15K866-BJ. They fit that to a Focus MK3.5, a Kuga and a C-MAX (and probably some others). My one came out of a C-MAX and when I first installed it, my UCDS scanner would not even detect it as a valid Focus part. I had to find out what firmware was used on the Focus MK3.5 version and then flash it with that firmware. Before I did that, I didn't get any chimes and although it did kind of work, it didn't work fully until I did the firmware and then config. 

[Guest]

Never done firmware on a car before, but I'm sure I can manage it. I'm getting used to using FORScan. Until now I haven't really messed around with cars since I was a lad (a long time ago now) way back in the 60's and early 70's. Drove company cars for years, no need to mess with them. After I retired I leased but during these times I think that leasing is just wasting money, so I bought this C Max, enjoying the challenge. Been a techie (not cars) all my working life.