unofix Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 2 hours ago, StephenFord said: most were started by a milk bottle of ignited flammable petrol being chucked inside them! Well that will have to Stop, Greta won't be allowing anything like that. Now a handful of PP3 batteries would be an acceptable method provided they can be recycled 🤣 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Bloodaxe Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 I see that much of today's press have latched on to the issue of penalty charges being imposed for overstaying at an EV charger, eg: https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/21838233/urgent-warning-electric-car-drivers-charging/ https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4ba44e4c-cb47-11ed-9386-0ff7738b71b1?shareToken=c50d61fefe3ee9db2cd5b730ab03819b 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unofix Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 12 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said: I see that much of today's press have latched on to the issue of penalty charges being imposed for overstaying at an EV charger, eg: mmmm........ I'm just thinking 🤔 can I fill my empty tank full of lovely diesel in under 60 minutes or do I risk paying a fine for filling up too slowly 🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted March 26, 2023 Author Share Posted March 26, 2023 13 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said: I see that much of today's press have latched on to the issue of penalty charges being imposed for overstaying at an EV charger, eg: I'm sure government will be thinking of loads of new revenue streams now they have decided to terminate the income from fuel duty soon, and the current zero £ road tax being offered to EVs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted March 26, 2023 Author Share Posted March 26, 2023 53 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said: I see that much of today's press have latched on to the issue of penalty charges being imposed for overstaying at an EV charger, eg: On reading The Times article, this jumps out... The fees have come as a nasty shock to electric vehicle (EV) drivers who were initially encouraged by the government to switch from petrol or diesel with tax breaks and free supermarket and council chargers, but have had to stomach swingeing increases in the price of power. I've said it before, but for the benefit of newcomers, the government has 'previous' on personal transport - they use to subsidise new Diesel cars proclaiming it as the fuel of the future, then when critical mass was reached, they increased diesel fuel to be more expensive than petrol (before their intervention it was almost half petrol price). I have absolutely no idea why the public ever trust the government on private transportation. They are absolute proven liars & thieves on the issue... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigA99 Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 59 minutes ago, StephenFord said: On reading The Times article, this jumps out... The fees have come as a nasty shock to electric vehicle (EV) drivers who were initially encouraged by the government to switch from petrol or diesel with tax breaks and free supermarket and council chargers, but have had to stomach swingeing increases in the price of power. I've said it before, but for the benefit of newcomers, the government has 'previous' on personal transport - they use to subsidise new Diesel cars proclaiming it as the fuel of the future, then when critical mass was reached, they increased diesel fuel to be more expensive than petrol (before their intervention it was almost half petrol price). I have absolutely no idea why the public ever trust the government on private transportation. They are absolute proven liars & thieves on the issue... When was diesel half the price of petrol at the pumps then? For as long as I can remember (back to the 70's) it's only been a few pence either way and that seems to be backed up by the historical records online. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted March 26, 2023 Author Share Posted March 26, 2023 4 minutes ago, BigA99 said: When was diesel half the price of petrol at the pumps then? For as long as I can remember (back to the 70's) it's only been a few pence either way and that seems to be backed up by the historical records online. I remember having a strong 'discussion' with a friend who wanted to buy a diesel car in the early 90s. At the time, diesel was about £2/gallon, petrol being just under £3/gallon. Of course it was also before the government conned us into dropping gallons, into liters to make it look cheaper LOL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iantt Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 If there that stupid to to leave there vehicle plugged into a fast charger for more than an hour they deserve the fine. No car/van needs an hour to charge on fast chargers at motorway services . Thick idiot. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iantt Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 As always the sun just copies another newspapers article and the times is very misleading on the article as I've just found out . Nothing new there. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted March 26, 2023 Author Share Posted March 26, 2023 6 minutes ago, iantt said: As always the sun just copies another newspapers article and the times is very misleading on the article as I've just found out . Nothing new there. A healthy disregard for the press, you'll go far... 👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iantt Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 1 hour ago, StephenFord said: A healthy disregard for the press, you'll go far... 👍 I've got a healthy disregard for more than the press. Amazes me how people believe headlines without digging further into a story and find out the truth without the press distortion . Got a few at work that spout headlines without understanding the bullshit behind it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanfp Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 4 hours ago, StephenFord said: they use to subsidise new Diesel cars Don't think they ever did, actually. Though there may be a headline on the interweb somewhere that says that 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted March 26, 2023 Author Share Posted March 26, 2023 5 minutes ago, alanfp said: Don't think they ever did, actually. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/oct/01/uk-government-wrong-to-subsidise-diesel-says-former-minister 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unofix Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 8 minutes ago, alanfp said: Don't think they ever did, actually. "Gordon Brown introduced tax breaks for diesel cars as the UK chancellor in 2001 because they emit less CO2 than petrol-powered cars, but it is now known that they emit other harmful pollutants, known as nitrogen oxides." Read the full article here: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/oct/01/uk-government-wrong-to-subsidise-diesel-says-former-minister At the time my company car which had been a 1.6 petrol Caviler was changed to a 1.7TDi Cavalier because of the tax break. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted March 26, 2023 Author Share Posted March 26, 2023 1 minute ago, unofix said: "Gordon Brown introduced tax breaks for diesel cars as the UK chancellor in 2001 because they emit less CO2 than petrol-powered cars, but it is now known that they emit other harmful pollutants, known as nitrogen oxides." Read the full article here: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/oct/01/uk-government-wrong-to-subsidise-diesel-says-former-minister Crikey, we both quote the same article, at the same moment, you my long lost brother?? LOL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanfp Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 6 minutes ago, unofix said: tax breaks for diesel cars as the UK chancellor in 2001 because they emit less CO2 than petrol-powered cars They were taxed at a lower rate because they emitted less greenhouse gases (CO2) - not really a 'subsidy' like the subsidies that EV buyers got, which is what the headline comment makes it sound like! But I take your point that there was an encouragement to move towards diesels. Either way, the reality is that the country has to balance its books and if the consumption of petrol/diesel reduces, the revenue that we used to get from forecourt sales has got to come from somewhere. My concern is that the government will raise electricity prices at homes to balance the books. As an example, at the moment those people charging at home pay only 5% VAT on the fuel for their car compared with 20% on petrol or diesel (in addition to fuel duty). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted March 26, 2023 Author Share Posted March 26, 2023 9 minutes ago, alanfp said: charging at home pay only 5% VAT on the fuel for their car compared with 20% on petrol or diesel (in addition to fuel duty). A quick google shows that government take 53p from every liter of fuel in addition to 20% VAT, raising £25 Billion/year - yes, that money will have to come from somewhere else once the ban comes fully into place... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Bloodaxe Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 2 hours ago, iantt said: As always the sun just copies another newspapers article and the times is very misleading on the article as I've just found out . Nothing new there. Quite so, Ian. I mentioned it as I find it amusing as they all seem to jump on the bandwagon after one of them "discovers" something which has been known for some time. (Most, if not all, local authorities and EV charger networks make this clear in the faq's on their websites anyway.) I rather wish sometimes they'd penalise people who leave their cars at the petrol/diesel pump for ages, causing the rest of us to queue while they do their shopping in the on site retail outlet! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted March 26, 2023 Author Share Posted March 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said: I rather wish sometimes they'd penalise people who leave their cars at the petrol/diesel pump for ages, causing the rest of us to queue while they do their shopping in the on site retail outlet! I rather think that will be a minor irritant compared to being if you are number 5 in the queue of a 45 minute quick recharge line seeing you there for almost 4 hours LOL 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unofix Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 I still don't understand why there has been little attempt to make the vehicle battery pack a "Plug and Play" system. Have 3 DIN sizes of battery, small, medium and large. Big vehicles would be able to use any of the 3 sizes depending on what was needed, and a very small vehicle would only be able to use the small DIN battery. No one these days buys a cordless drill and expects the battery to be "built in". It would be crazy that in the middle of drilling holes to have to stop and put the Drill on charge. We expect to be able to quickly swap out the battery for a ready charged one. It's no good waiting until vehicle manufactures have all done there own thing and it becomes impossible to introduce a standard. We already have no real standards of charging. Governments around the world find it very easy to have a global policy on Zero emissions, why is it so hard for them to enforce a standard system for EV's. Or is it they want them to fail, so that having banned ICE the public are left with no real means of personal transport ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted March 26, 2023 Author Share Posted March 26, 2023 14 minutes ago, unofix said: I still don't understand why there has been little attempt to make the vehicle battery pack a "Plug and Play" system. I remember seeing this concept ages ago, it was on mainstream TV (TopGear or FifthGear?). Sad that it seems to be the Chinese leading the way, with Tesla, and European manufacturers poopooing the whole concept from pure self interest rather than the common good. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/inside-chinas-electric-drive-swappable-car-batteries-2022-03-24/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanfp Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 17 minutes ago, unofix said: I still don't understand why there has been little attempt to make the vehicle battery pack a "Plug and Play" system I think this is why... This is the battery pack from a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (13.8 kWh). Apparently weighs 150 kg! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted March 26, 2023 Author Share Posted March 26, 2023 6 minutes ago, alanfp said: I think this is why... This is the battery pack from a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (13.8 kWh). Apparently weighs 150 kg! Weight is immaterial (with EV batteries weighing on average 1000Kg), it is all done automatically with a car, when you drive in, start the 'replacement' procedure, then drive out with the battery replaced in a few minutes. You'll not be expected to do it with a set of spanners LOL battery swap: faster than any EV rapid charger! – DrivingElectric" width="200"> 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unofix Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 6 minutes ago, StephenFord said: Sad that it seems to be the Chinese leading the way, with Tesla, and European manufacturers poopooing the whole concept from pure self interest rather than the common good. Fantastic !!!! 👍 Thank goodness we can rely on the Chinese to come up with the answer 🙄 It just has to be common sense something that is in very short supply with western leaders . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted March 27, 2023 Author Share Posted March 27, 2023 9 hours ago, unofix said: I still don't understand why there has been little attempt to make the vehicle battery pack a "Plug and Play" system. It just occurred to me that the phone industry totally transformed in the other direction! When my old Nokia was getting low in charge, I simply slid the back off, and inserted a fresh recharged battery. Now, they are all sealed and people spend an age charging the darn things up, wondering if they have enough juice to last a day - a replaceable battery was so much more simple! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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