Energy chat, the future of car propulsion

[StephenFord]

8 minutes ago, alanfp said:

So you've driven one, then? 🙂

Sorry, double negatives always confuse me LOL

[iantt]

37 minutes ago, alanfp said:

 

3) knowing that in traffic jams, multi-storey car parks, 3-point turns outside the school gates etc.  we weren't polluting the local environment.

That's something I've noticed whenever I'm in a town. Even before owning a an ev. I remember walking in st helier in jersey last year  along side one of the main roads and the smell and fumes got down my throat . You could even taste the particulates. Obviously not just cars but vans and lorry's.  wouldn't want to live in a built up town /city with the crap blowing out the exhausts. 

[StephenFord]

2 minutes ago, iantt said:

...wouldn't want to live in a built up town /city with the crap blowing out the exhausts. 

What you need is a nice ULEZ zone 

[unofix]

54 minutes ago, alanfp said:

And I don't know of anyone who has owned or leased an electric or hybrid car and then gone back to having a purely ICE car. 

https://www.youtube.com/@TheMacMaster

[StephenFord]

5 minutes ago, unofix said:

https://www.youtube.com/@TheMacMaster

Is this the link you meant?

 

[unofix]

Yes and No 👍 I just thought I'd post the link to the whole series, leading up to that one you have kindly linked in.

That is the ultimate video in the saga of his ownership of the Porsche. I followed the Youtube videos for around 6 months. Some (but not all) are worth watching to see what he experienced using an EV in his line of work.

[StephenFord]

4 minutes ago, unofix said:

That is the ultimate video in the saga of his ownership of the Porsche.

A while back I followed a Canadian owner of a Tesla who also abandoned his EV dream. Though many of his issues were because he had the audacity to live somewhere where it was always snowing, and freezing, hence besotted with battery issues.

[alanfp]

Looks like he "handed the keys back" for "3-4 days" while his own electric car was being updated. Or am I missing something??? 

[unofix]

1 minute ago, StephenFord said:

he had the audacity to live somewhere where it was always snowing, and freezing, hence besotted with battery issues.

Yes I saw that one, and the funny situation that the battery was using so much of it's own power to heat the battery pack to maintain a usable range 🤣

[iantt]

2 hours ago, unofix said:

https://www.youtube.com/@TheMacMaster

He is just a click bait machine. A complete knob 

[Scottman]

On 5/9/2023 at 8:17 AM, iantt said:

Just out of interest , is there anyone on this forum apart from me who has actually road tested an ev ? Just curious? 

I have spent considerable time in the Tesla 3. About fifteen hours in the Tesla X. Three months in a Nissan Leaf. Three hours in a Fisker karma. Less than two hours each in Chevrolet Volt and Bolt. My issue is not with any particular driving aspect of an BEV, I have concluded that it just not practical or cost effective for a large number of people. For some people they are perfectly fine. 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

18 minutes ago, Scottman said:

I have concluded that it just not practical or cost effective for a large number of people. For some people they are perfectly fine. 

I think that sums up nicely the view of many of us who lurk on this thread! In fact I think one would suit my wife's usage very well - except for the fact that electric small cars such as the Fiat 500 are £30k + in the UK at present.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

The news media this week is full of items about the "rules of origin" under our trade deal with the EU which kick in from next year. This is where 45% of the value of the vehicle has to be local content to avoid tariffs and the issue is that EV batteries are such an expensive item (and need to be imported at present) they break the limit. So manufacturers are now saying it is not economic to build EVs here, with (Vauxhall in particular) huge job losses threatened.

This has been known about from when the Brexit deal being negotiated, and, despite the failure so far to come up with a UK "gigafactory" or two, it's hard to believe everyone has only just noticed.

 

 

[StephenFord]

1 minute ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

... it's hard to believe everyone has only just noticed...

Not that hard really 🤣

[Eric Bloodaxe]

5 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

Not that hard really 🤣

I'm being kind!😃 

I suspect the manufacturers are trying to lever some government largesse to avoid the job cuts and just put pressure on in general.

Carlos Tavares of Stellantis in particular seems to speak his mind. I've seen a couple of reports recently where he's guoted as saying, in essence, "when someone comes up with a much better solution, be it synthetic fuels, hydrogen, or something else, who's going to pay for the billions wasted on BEVs for everything and the proven technology we've thrown away?" .

I  suspect we already know the answer to that!

[Scottman]

Largely the same issue here in North America. Our government has decided that they don’t want to permit mining for the rare earth elements that the batteries require. But, at the same time they also want domestic parts content to be above a stated percentage of each vehicle! 
in fact, they have such restrictive rules and regulations for even where a manufacturing plant could be built, that some states,IE; California and New York, would probably just make the regulatory hurdles too great to make it viable. The whole concept of carbon capture is just insanity on steroids.

 

[StephenFord]

12 minutes ago, Scottman said:

...The whole concept of carbon capture is just insanity on steroids...

Sadly, today on our local elections, I have spoiled my vote again for the 2nd time. There is not one single political party here that can visualise the disaster that is heading straight towards us all... (I am heartened though to learn that a London Mayoral candidate, Howard Cox,  is running on a ticket of disbandment of the whole ULEZ system, not just the expansion of it)

[unofix]

I'm thinking of setting up my own political party and calling it "None of the above". I think I'd probably have a landslide victory 👍

[Scottman]

I don’t think that spoiling a ballot by writing a protest across it is an effective tactic. The British people spoke loud and clear, several  times at the ballot box! Just to rid themselves of membership in the EU. I’m not sure that your government is working very hard to find a new path forward. 
The leadership must understand that making goods and selling products from Britain around the world should be a high priority for them to persue.

Doing nothing or it’s equivalent of stalling on developing an industrial and trade strategy that involves a coalition of democratic governments who share a common interest in the well being of their citizens and industry is not trivial. 
this includes the current situation with rare earth elements and production of critical components for electric vehicles. The governments need to get it through their thick skulls that Chinese batteries in British and American built cars are simply unacceptable.

[StephenFord]

13 minutes ago, Scottman said:

I don’t think that spoiling a ballot by writing a protest across it is an effective tactic

 

We'll disagree on that one, I feel that spoiling your vote is an effective protest, much better than voting for someone who is incompetent, or sitting at home doing nothing...

[StephenFord]

39 minutes ago, Scottman said:

..The British people spoke loud and clear, several  times at the ballot box! Just to rid themselves of membership in the EU. I’m not sure that your government is working very hard to find a new path forward..

 

That is true, the PM of the day, David Cameron resigned over the vote as he campaigned to remain, and his heart wasn't in government any longer. Sadly, the replacement PM Teresa May also campaigned to remain, but told a lie that she was now a 'leaver', and spent the next 3 years scuppering the vote at every corner.

Anyway, I'm conscious that we're veering off topic, and I don't want this thread suspended again. So, back on topic, yes, you are absolutely correct that Chinese batteries installed in USA & UK EVs is not a viable plan...

[Scottman]

It’s on topic when it sheds light on the mindset of the leadership that would cram an impractical technology down the throats of the citizens at an astronomical cost to industry and society. The only reason we are discussing this issue is because it’s being mandated.

All the same rubbish is being pushed onto us in the states. Only difference being that we are a few years behind Europe.

[Paulkp]

Not really looked at this topic before, so apologies if this has been discussed, but I would be interested to know what pollution/energy costs are involved in the production, packaging and distribution of "Adblue" ?

There are also the added costs of fitting the system to cars, and the extra (unnecessary ?) weight carrying it in your vehicle.

[alanfp]

3 hours ago, Scottman said:

Chinese batteries in British and American built cars are simply unacceptable.

Why?

 

[StephenFord]

9 hours ago, alanfp said:

Why?

 

We are already over reliant on China to supply numerous consumer goods. In the same way much of the world is/was reliant on Russian energy, and is now suffering from what a rogue state can do. To be reliant on China to potentially power every means of personal transport is just silly...