Energy chat, the future of car propulsion

[Mark-UK]

5 hours ago, StephenFord said:

That young lady could really do with a shower, she looks very 'crusty'!

 

5 hours ago, Wino said:

Greta showing her true colours after just one night in Glasgow...

 

 

When you can't attack the message, belittle yourselves and try to attack the messenger

[StephenFord]

7 minutes ago, Mark-UK said:

When you can't attack the message, belittle yourselves and try to attack the messenger

As you know, I can attack the message all day long, but still doesn't detract from the fact that she looks as if a shower wouldn't hurt her LOL

Oh, here's the attack on 'the message'

Oh Greta, HOW DARE YOU!! Watched you on the recent Andrew Marr show, and you irritate me now more than you ever did. Not entirely your fault though as being so young, what real life experience have you got? You have been manipulated from such a young age, that you actually believe your own rhetoric.

I have long held the view that we should be adapting, rather than trying to change global warming. It's like p*ssing against a hurricane wind, worldwide governments including our own are trying to control the hurricane, instead of designing a nice cosy overcoat to protect us.

China, in the next 3 years will have in excess of 1300 coal powered power stations. The UK will have 2, nope, not a typo, 2. If the UK went to 'net zero' tomorrow, that's exactly the effect it would have on global climate change, zero!

Yet by blindly attempting 'net zero', the UK government are introducing economic measures that will inevitably bankrupt us as a country, and as individuals.  Much talk has been made over domestic 'heat pumps'. Experts agree this is fundamentally useless, with a planned grant spend of £80 Billion, yet eventually covering 0.2% of domestic properties! (again, not a typo, 99.2% will be untouched)

I'll not even start on battery cars which common sense will alert knowledgeable folk that we simply don't generate enough nasty electricity to power them. Again, if they are so good, why do we need to ban ICE cars as folk would always strive to get something better. The market should be left to decide. We are simply heading towards the 'betamax' of personal transport. (Younger readers may have to google that)

So Greta, 'how dare you', you have managed to brainwash not only a generation of impressionable youngsters, but also gullible governments pandering for votes! (interesting that China is not influenced in trying to get votes!)

 

 

[YOG]

I've seen lots of talk about replacing gas boilers with heat-pumps, which cost a fortune to buy and install. In addition, the temperature output is lower than a gas boiler, so would require larger/additional radiators to heat a house to the same temperature as previous.

So, what I don't understand is, with all the benefits of hydrogen, why the Government is not pushing to quickly increase production of it and its associated products.

Clearly British Gas believe in hydrogen and see the future as Hydrogen boilers (manufacturers say would be the same price as gas boilers), with Hydrogen distributed through the natural gas system. Why can't that distribution system also be used to send hydrogen supplies to hydrogen car filling centres around the UK, as well?

A snippet from the following link:

“The UK government is planning to replace natural gas with hydrogen gas – because it’s much more environmentally friendly.”

So why are they wanting to push heat-pumps?

https://www.britishgas.co.uk/the-source/greener-living/hydrogen-boilers.html

[unofix]

Maybe all we need is World War 3, the climate thing will be forgotten, over population sorted, electric vehicles pushed aside, the woke brigade give real jobs to do, and insulate Britian can wrap everyone in cotton wool !!

[eddie eastwood]

1 hour ago, StephenFord said:

So Greta, 'how dare you'

She is nothing but a hypocrit, no were have I seen that she has mentioned the fact that after that yacht trip, that there was two air flights for a change of the yacht crew. One to bring the new crew into the USA and the second one to take the old crew home.

[StephenFord]

1 minute ago, eddie eastwood said:

She is nothing but a hypocrit, ...

I can live with her being a hypocrite, it's the fact that she repeats the, 'blah blah blah' mantra without ever advocating what to do about anything. She is simply an agitator, who got initial impetus for being 'young', but now she is of an age where she is bereft of any substance whatsoever... Though to be fair, many of our world leaders are of the same cloth.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

 

45 minutes ago, YOG said:

So, what I don't understand is, with all the benefits of hydrogen, why the Government is not pushing to quickly increase production of it and its associated products.

Some things are happening, mostly via JCB and Ineos at the moment, it seems.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59107805?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA

https://www.ineos.com/news/ineos-group/ineos-announces-over-2-billion-investment-in-green-hydrogen-production/

I understand the issue with hydrogen, although it's very abundant (e.g. in water), is separating it in a "green" manner, which so far seems to need electricity produced from non carbon sources.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tizer]

It's not just her who is a hypocrite. I was exercising outside yesterday morning under the flight path to Edinburgh airport when I saw a Jumbo Jet approaching, which is unusual for Edinburgh.

As it got closer I could see that it was Air Force 1, a plane big enough to take hundreds of people. A few minutes later another very large Jet came into land, not a Jumbo this time but it had the exact same markings as AF1 and may have been a decoy for security reasons. 

Joe's Limo is also here and must have been flown in from the USA as well and all these planes will need to be flown back with next to no-one in them. 

[unofix]

2 minutes ago, Tizer said:

I was exercising outside yesterday morning

Talk about being a hypocrite, this is a 'Car forum' what were you doing exercising ? 🤣

[StephenFord]

3 minutes ago, Tizer said:

Joe's Limo is also here and must have been flown in from the USA as well and all these planes will need to be flown back with next to no-one in them. 

Sleepy Joe arrived with a cavalcade of 85 cars all flown in especially for his 24 hour visit LOL  Americans don't get irony!

[Tizer]

25 minutes ago, unofix said:

Talk about being a hypocrite, this is a 'Car forum' what were you doing exercising ? 🤣

I didn't want anyone to think I was a Plane Spotter😁

[eddie eastwood]

Found an re-read the original report and carbon footprint wise is worse than I originally mentioned.

Greta Thunberg’s Not-So-Little Carbon Footprint | OilPrice.com

 

Quote from the article:-

 

That’s the picture that Greta supporters would like you to focus on. But there’s another side to this eco-friendly journey: Two crewmembers had to fly across the Atlantic to New York to bring the boat back, and two of the crewmembers that made the original voyage had to fly across the Atlantic from the US to return home. That’s four flights to keep Greta from making two.  We won’t even mention the train trip Greta took to get to Plymouth, England, in order to set sail, nor will we mention the numerous freeze-dried meals, which we assume are encased in some single-use plastic product, which by our estimations, the two-man crew, Greta, her father, and some cameraman documenting the experience equated to over 200 meals. We also won’t talk about how Greta will return home, since the boat has since returned to Europe.

 

Greta Thunberg's voyage may generate more emissions than it saves Jack Elsom On Wednesday, the Swedish eco-campaigner left Plymouth on the Malizia II for a two-week journey to the United Na...

 

 

 

 

 

[StephenFord]

26 minutes ago, eddie eastwood said:

Found an re-read the original report and carbon footprint wise is worse than I originally mentioned.

Greta Thunberg’s Not-So-Little Carbon Footprint | OilPrice.com

 

Quote from the article:-

 

That’s the picture that Greta supporters would like you to focus on. But there’s another side to this eco-friendly journey:

 

 

 

 

 

That doesn't really bother me, she's a child, hardly got the wherewithal to finance/plan/organise such a trip. It's all her hangers on who manipulate her for their own ends I dislike, and what they have turned her in to. 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

More on JCB and hydrogen today.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10158509/Billions-schemes-barely-make-difference-writes-JCB-boss-LORD-BAMFORD.html

Lord Bamford makes an interesting point in the article, that hydrogen would be just as simple to tax as petrol or diesel, whereas replacing fuel duties if we go 100% EV would be more difficult. Wonder if that might have an impact on Government thinking?

[Eric Bloodaxe]

23 hours ago, Carl123 said:

China's "one child" policy was not a huge sucess story

Indeed it wasn't. Other strategies are available, a few interesting thoughts here:

https://mahb.stanford.edu/library-item/solutions-overpopulation-can/

[StephenFord]

4 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

More on JCB and hydrogen today.

 

I just love JCB! They now run the Wright Bus factory only a few miles away from me and are passionate about the development of hydrogen despite so many government obstacles being thrown in their way. Increasing employment from just over 50, to nearly 1000 in a few years. Proper development on a 'green' environment...

[TomsFocus]

Hydrogen currently takes huge amounts of electricity to produce unfortunately.  It's just not viable at the moment.   

[StephenFord]

13 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Hydrogen currently takes huge amounts of electricity to produce unfortunately.  It's just not viable at the moment.   

Neither is the charging of 37 Million battery cars LOL

[TomsFocus]

14 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

Neither is the charging of 37 Million battery cars LOL

Which is why walking, cycling and public transport are being pushed...the idea was never to replace every ICE car with an EV lol.

But even for home use (cooking & heating), hydrogen isn't a suitable replacement for gas until we can find more efficient ways to produce it.

[YOG]

7 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

........ But even for home use (cooking & heating), hydrogen isn't a suitable replacement for gas until we can find more efficient ways to produce it.

But that's one of the things this Government should be encouraging/financing, rather than pushing electric as the solution to everything.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

2 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Which is why walking, cycling and public transport are being pushed...the idea was never to replace every ICE car with an EV lol.

Good point, Tom (though you might think otherwise at the moment with the emphasis on EVs). I've always walked a lot and cycled where possible anyway, and have found one of the (few) big benefits to becoming wrinkly was the senior bus pass. Love it (or did until the mask business anyway😀).

2 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

But even for home use (cooking & heating), hydrogen isn't a suitable replacement for gas until we can find more efficient ways to produce it.

Interest in hydrogen seems to be picking up, so research into more efficient production should step up also.

I'm sure there is no one ideal solution to transport or domestic heating and we'll end up with a mix to suit different applications.

I'm pretty open minded on this, and find it all quite fascinating, but I can't shake off the nagging feeling that there must be better solutions than, for example, heat pumps and batteries. 

 

[Wino]

51 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Hydrogen currently takes huge amounts of electricity to produce unfortunately.  It's just not viable at the moment.   

Can't we just fill up from the tap ? 😉

[TomsFocus]

9 minutes ago, YOG said:

But that's one of the things this Government should be encouraging/financing, rather than pushing electric as the solution to everything.

I agree.  And the gas giants are working on it, they don't want their entire network of gas pipes to become redundant.  But from what I've seen lately, it's going to take decades rather than years before Hydrogen becomes a better option and we just don't have the time to wait when electricity is already there.  

[TomsFocus]

3 minutes ago, Wino said:

Can't we just fill up from the tap ? 😉

Not really, your Hydrogen will be all Oxygeny from the tap, eurgh!

 

[TomsFocus]

5 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

I can't shake off the nagging feeling that there must be better solutions than, for example, heat pumps and batteries. 

I'm pretty certain there will be, but time restraints & financial restraints mean we're stuck with the best option 'at the moment', as with many things in life. 🤔