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Petition against government banning sale of petrol & diesel cars in 2030 (Petition now over, but energy chat continues!)


StephenFord
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11 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Yes, I'm really hoping this works out and leaves a lot of egg on various faces!😀

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/toyota-readies-hydrogen-engine-technology-road-cars

The big drawback, at this early stage at least, seems to be reduced efficiency compared to petrol, which would need to be overcome. On the plus side, presumably, as you're burning no carbon, a hydrogen ICE would not require catalytic converters, particulate filters and various other emissions gear which would reduce complication and cost.

Now that is very interesting.  Given it's reduced efficiency, it would presumably work better in something like Mazda's 2.0 SkyActiv where it'll get the combustion space?  Though it would also need a large fuel tank which is likely to push it out of 'midsized' hatches and into SUVs I guess.

Won't need cats or PF's, but with air being predominately Nitrogen, you'll still get a certain amount of NOx created from burning it.

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13 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Yes, I'm really hoping this works out and leaves a lot of egg on various faces!😀

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/toyota-readies-hydrogen-engine-technology-road-cars

The big drawback, at this early stage at least, seems to be reduced efficiency compared to petrol, which would need to be overcome. On the plus side, presumably, as you're burning no carbon, a hydrogen ICE would not require catalytic converters, particulate filters and various other emissions gear which would reduce complication and cost.

And you think it's difficult finding an electric charge point.

There are what maybe a dozen hydrogen filling points in the UK,  and there the cost of training too.

"To use one of our hydrogen stations, you will need to download, complete and return the application form to fuel@itm-power.com before you are issued with a fuel card and receive training"

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Anyone else think the 2030 date for electrification will be pushed back?

The government has form for extending deadline dates, you may remember that lockdown would go once all the over 70s were vaccinated, then it was the over 60s, then the over 40s, and now it's pretty much every adult in the UK.

I can just picture the Downing Street press conference now in that, "after extensive consultation, we have decided to push the date of electrification back 'X' years as we realise now that not everyone can actually charge this white elephant LOL Not to mention that the UK is responsible for less than 2% of global pollution, so it won't make a difference anyway!" 

 

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1 hour ago, StephenFord said:

Anyone else think the 2030 date for electrification will be pushed back?

 

The thought had occurred to me, but I suppose the issue is we seem to be in lock step with our friends and partners. It does seem if the Euro 7 regs are as drastic as feared, it won't be economic to be  producing petrol/diesel fuelled vehicles by around 2025 anyway, according to industry chiefs. I've seen Carlos Tavares (top banana at Stellantis) and his counterpart at Renault quoted several times saying that in reality Euro 6.2 is about as clean as fossil fuelled ICE can get, the Euro 7 proposals just add vast amounts of cost to no practical benefit.

And of course they really need some cover to distract attention from a pushback  - a prominent cabinet minister could be caught on film snogging an aide, perhaps?😀

1 hour ago, StephenFord said:

 

The government has form for extending deadline dates, you may remember that lockdown would go once all the over 70s were vaccinated, then it was the over 60s, then the over 40s, and now it's pretty much every adult in the UK.

Ah yes, I vaguely remember that. A bit like the one where I wouldn't be social distancing/mask wearing from last Monday I guess.

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3 hours ago, Mark-UK said:

And you think it's difficult finding an electric charge point.

There are what maybe a dozen hydrogen filling points in the UK,  and there the cost of training too.

"To use one of our hydrogen stations, you will need to download, complete and return the application form to fuel@itm-power.com before you are issued with a fuel card and receive training"

Yes, that looks a real pain, though it's perhaps understandable at this stage - there are only 2 or 3 hydrogen models on sale at the moment, I think.

My earlier point was about the poor provision in (a brand new) Morrison's vs Tesco, rather than availability of electric charging points per se.

Charging plugs/sockets do need to be rationalized (or at least charging points made to accept all types) and you should not need an app from multiple networks on your phone. Imagine needing the BP app, the Esso app, the Tesco app, the Asda app, the Morrison's app, etc, etc to fuel your diesel at the various filling stations, rather than paying by debit/credit card.

Just to reinforce the point - the other week I was out for a walk and came to a roadside pub. In a prominent position in the car park were 2 double outlet chargers with sockets to accept all plug types (so 4 cars could charge simultaneously) and card payments were accepted. 

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27 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Ah yes, I vaguely remember that. A bit like the one where I wouldn't be social distancing/ mask from last Monday I guess.

From the 21st June, I have now stopped wear a mask, 'I'm done..' Legally, you can self exempt, though TBH, I haven't been challenged one single time since I stopped.

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Don't tell anyone, but I broke the rules last week. We were on holiday in Northumberland and met up with friends who live up there. My mate popped into a shop to buy ice creams for us all and while he was fumbling for money the lady serving had her hands full of cones so I just walked in and took them from her, forgetting my mask! OMG!😀 

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The diffrent sockets on EV is stupid, there needs to be a single universal type, but this could be a long way off. The EU has been looking at universal socket for charing mobile device for years, but Apple fight them all the way, The European Parliament passed a resolution in Jan 2020 calling on the bloc's executive branch to "urgently" force tech companies to use just one type of charger

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17 minutes ago, Mark-UK said:

The diffrent sockets on EV is stupid,

Even charging ordinary domestic devices has always been a nightmare, my man drawer is full of old charges, 'just in case' LOL

charger.thumb.jpg.6cb36d0d104a9d43e88b083d61bbb9aa.jpg

 

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I've had my current phone for just over 2.5 years, now looking for a new one.  Wanted one with wireless charging ideally, as I never seem to get the USB in easily and the port is now wearing loose, exactly the same issue as my last phone.

Anyway, I bought a new phone (which, as with everything else I buy lately, has not been successful, and also turned out not to be wireless) knowing it was at least USB-C so doesn't matter which way up it goes. 

As soon as I got it, I inadvertently plugged it into the old charger...before realising what I'd done and feeling slightly puzzled... :unsure:

Turns out my old phone has been USB-C for the last 30 months...and I've been flipping the plug each time!! :laugh:

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1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

I've had my current phone for just over 2.5 years, now looking for a new one.  Wanted one with wireless charging ideally, as I never seem to get the USB in easily and the port is now wearing loose, exactly the same issue as my last phone.

Anyway, I bought a new phone (which, as with everything else I buy lately, has not been successful, and also turned out not to be wireless) knowing it was at least USB-C so doesn't matter which way up it goes. 

As soon as I got it, I inadvertently plugged it into the old charger...before realising what I'd done and feeling slightly puzzled... :unsure:

Turns out my old phone has been USB-C for the last 30 months...and I've been flipping the plug each time!! :laugh:

So usb-c you can put in either way? 

Edit, my phone is USB -c , just tried it. 😂😂.

Tom you not the only one who didn't know about your old phone. Had my phone 18 months . 

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I’ve had iPhones last 10 years…no idea what yous are talking about!?! I am a bit behind the times though ..iPhone 7 currently..

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13 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Turns out my old phone has been USB-C for the last 30 months...and I've been flipping the plug each time!! :laugh:

 

12 hours ago, iantt said:

 

Edit, my phone is USB -c , just tried it. 😂😂.

Tom you not the only one who didn't know about your old phone. Had my phone 18 months . 

You're a bunch of eejits LOL I'm the most un-techie guy I know, but even I knew my phone was USB 'c', can't be ars*d guessing all the time which way round to plug in a USB cable 🤣

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10 hours ago, Guy Heaton said:

I'm off to test drive a corolla today, I'll report back on what it was like

 

The 2L ? I think the 1.8 might be a little under powered. 

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Yes it was,it was fast enough.  Book says a similar 0 to 60 as the Focus but the Focus is definitely more responsive.

But both the Corolla and the rav could get to motorway speeds on a slip road in plenty of time.  Rav is the 2wd 218bhp 2.5.

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12 hours ago, Alex.S said:

I’ve had iPhones last 10 years…no idea what yous are talking about!?! I am a bit behind the times though ..iPhone 7 currently..

Apple like to be awkward, they don't use a standard USB jack.

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5 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Apple like to be awkward, they don't use a standard USB jack.

You are right, no they don't, they call it a 'lightening' cable as my partner has an Apple, (yeuch), but it acts like a USB 'c' in that it works no matter which way up it is...

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  • 4 weeks later...

Reading about yet another study today, this time by insurers LV=, which concluded that 6 out of every 9 EV owners would recoup the average extra initial cost (£7,027) and be in front after 7 years.

Once again they seem to have ignored the fact that this is based on existing levels of taxation, etc, and that the government is going to have to find a way to replace the lost revenue from fuel duty, probably by some form of road pricing. 

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This evening as I looked over to my neighbours houses, one of them has 4 x cars, the other has 5. Now, when we're all 'electric' will they have to have multiple home 'chargers', or just run an extension lead from one charger to them all?

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Well at nearly 60 years of age my regret is I won't be around when all this electric vehicle nonsense goes pear shape and I could say "I told you so"

Electric vehicles powered by batteries of the type currently in use (or similar) can never replace the current engines, there are not enough raw materials on planet earth to make sufficient batteries to replace the vehicles we have currently. Then take in to account that a battery lasts between 5 and 7 years before being scrap and has to be replaced with another.

Once upon a time the world thought that Coal and oil would last forever, and now of course panic is setting in as it is starting to run out. How long is it going take the world to realise batteries don't grow on trees ? I don't pretend to have the answer but totally throwing out one technology to replace it with one equally flawed seems incredibly short sighted and somewhat stupid.

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1 hour ago, unofix said:

Well at nearly 60 years of age my regret is I won't be around when all this electric vehicle nonsense goes pear shape and I could say "I told you so"

Lol that's a bit pessemistic. I'm 10 years older but still expect to be around for that!😀

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9 hours ago, unofix said:

Well at nearly 60 years of age my regret is I won't be around when all this electric vehicle nonsense goes pear shape and I could say "I told you so"

 

Crikey, I made the EXACT same comment some pages back, I guess we both have the wisdom of age & experience! 😁

EDIT:

Found my original 'told you so' post LOL

https://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/121302-petition-against-government-banning-sale-of-petrol-diesel-cars-in-2030-petition-now-over-but-energy-chat-continues/?do=findComment&comment=866762&_rid=100445

 

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