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Petition against government banning sale of petrol & diesel cars in 2030 (Petition now over, but energy chat continues!)


StephenFord
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Seen quite a lot on the subject of synthetic fuels in the last few days, typical article here:

https://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/204185/porsches-synthetic-fuel-manufacturing-facility-breaks-ground-in-chile

Can't help thinking that this sort of thing would get us a lot nearer to carbon neutrality, more quickly, than the current strategy. 

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On 10/21/2021 at 9:27 AM, Eric Bloodaxe said:

I suppose it's worth remembering that they're not saying we all must suddenly buy a new EV in 2030, just if we do decide to buy a new car from that point on it has to be zero emission.

Still not sure, btw, what date in 2030 they mean - January or December is a big difference. Anyone seen any clarification of that yet?

One would assume Jan 1, or maybe the 2030 tax year? Then after a few years of the Government not getting their sweet, sweet road tax, we'll have a whole host of research talking about how bad lithium and cobalt are, at which point we'll then be subject to lithium taxes on the batteries in our EVs.

4 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Seen quite a lot on the subject of synthetic fuels in the last few days, typical article here:

https://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/204185/porsches-synthetic-fuel-manufacturing-facility-breaks-ground-in-chile

Can't help thinking that this sort of thing would get us a lot nearer to carbon neutrality, more quickly, than the current strategy. 

Interesting...

I've been saying I reckon we'd be better off looking at synthetic fuels, though I always assumed the future would be diesel engines due to their versatility (providing they're built for it), but looking at this it seems as though they're looking to keep pushing the petrol engine... Mind you... That's not to say they're not looking at petrol powered diesel engines...

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September 2021 Tesla model 3 was the best selling car in Europe, the first time an all electric car has topped the chart and also the first time a non European manufacturer has topped the chart.

Car rental giant Hertz orders 100,000 Tesla for delivery  by 2022

So lot of people have confidence in EVs and are not fixated by ICE

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15 minutes ago, Mark-UK said:

 

Car rental giant Hertz orders 100,000 Tesla for delivery  by 2022

 

Making Tesla a £Trillion company!

 

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7 hours ago, Mark-UK said:

So lot of people have confidence in EVs and are not fixated by ICE

As we've discussed before, we on this forum tend to be interested in cars and perhaps not typical of the motoring public at large who want something that meets their transport needs at a price they can afford, or are willing to pay, and are not that bothered what's under the bonnet.

I'm not at all surprised at the success of the Tesla Model 3. Back in the day, when I was a company car user a diesel gave me the best economic outcome, all things considered. I'm pretty sure if I was in the same position now I'd be filling my boots with the tax advantages of an EV on a salary sacrifice scheme.

The Tesla has also pulled off the neat trick of apparently having as much kudos as, say, a BMW or Audi with the added "virtue signalling" element for those who are bothered about such things. (Audi and BMW also do full EVs of course, but only knowledgeable types would probably know which was which, whereas most people know Tesla's are EV only.) The Model 3 is also a good looking car imo, outside at least.

In the here and now, a small petrol car meets my needs at a cost I'm prepared to pay, as presumably a diesel does for you.

I'm keeping an open mind on this, and when a better solution for me personally is available, I'll go for it. I imagine most people will do likewise.

 

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An EV would suit my driving patterns for most days of the year and my wife's driving patterns for all of the year. The simple fact is that we can afford to purchase petrol vehicles at the current time but can't afford to purchase battery vehicles. Case closed (for us).

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3 minutes ago, pcaouolte said:

... but can't afford to purchase battery vehicles. Case closed (for us).

Maybe you could occasionally rent one from Hertz, I have it on good authority they are getting a few in stock! 🤣

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Would love to. There is one near me and the acceleration is unbelievable (well compared to my 1 litre petrol it is).

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18 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

(Audi and BMW also do full EVs of course, but only knowledgeable types would probably know which was which, whereas most people know Tesla's are EV only.)

 

 I agree with that. I'm noticing an ever increasing number of Tesla in my area, but positive there is also an increase in other EVs they just are not as noticeable (a Vauxhall Mokka look the same be that petrol, diesel or electric)

 

Many might be future proofing their purchase, I know it's only commercial vehicles from May 2022, but how long will that last.

Living on the border of Greater Manchester the signs have gone up in the last week or so.

Untitled.jpg

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20 minutes ago, Mark-UK said:

 

Living on the border of Greater Manchester the signs have gone up in the last week or so.

Untitled.jpg

You English are so compliant LOL Here in Northern Ireland, if someone put up 'congestion' cameras, they'd be shot down within a week 🤣

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5 hours ago, Mark-UK said:

I agree with that. I'm noticing an ever increasing number of Tesla in my area, but positive there is also an increase in other EVs they just are not as noticeable (a Vauxhall Mokka look the same be that petrol, diesel or electric)

Yes, the new number plates with the green stripe do help identify the latest EVs, but there are already a lot of older EVs out there without. 

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23 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

The Tesla has also pulled off the neat trick.......

I should also have added "of increasing Elon Musk's wealth to £210bn!"

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22 hours ago, StephenFord said:

Maybe you could occasionally rent one from Hertz, 

I wouldn't mind doing that myself if the price is right. It would be even better if they could have local "try out" days where you could sample various makes in a non sales environment and just get the "feel" of what to expect from an EV. Somewhere off the public road would be good, like a former airfield. We have a handy one near us it happens - Elvington - which often hosts various record attempts, rally stages, etc as well as being the location of the Yorkshire Air Museum (well worth a visit if you're in the area!)

My Mrs (who is not normally a nervous person by any means!) has never driven anything other than a 3 pedal car in 40+ years of driving, and is rather wary of driving an EV. I'm sure she's not the only one.

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These are not congestion cameras, but Greater Manchester Clean Air Zone.

From May/June next year, non compliant vehicles daily charge

£7.50 - Taxi and Private Hire

£10 - panel or box van, car-derived van, pickup, flatbed truck, motorised horsebox (up to 3.5t when carrying a load), or minibus

£60- bus or coach with nine or more passenger seats, and lorries  with two axles, rigid/articulated lorry with more than two axles, or a motorised horsebox (over 3.5t)

£10 or £60 - dependent on size, Motorcaravans (also known as motorhomes or campervans)

GM_Clean_Air_Zone_map_555x400.png

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4 minutes ago, Mark-UK said:

These are not congestion cameras, but Greater Manchester Clean Air Zone.

 

We'd still shoot them! 🤣

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5 minutes ago, Wino said:

Greta showing her true colours after just one night in Glasgow...

That young lady could really do with a shower, she looks very 'crusty'!

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Among the many things that puzzle me about the climate change debate, is why the underlying cause of many of the issues - human overpopulation - never seems to get a mention.

No, I'm not advocating a mass cull (though I'm sure we could all nominate some candidates😀) but some measures to limit population growth must surely be at least as sensible as heat pumps, etc?

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On 10/26/2021 at 10:04 AM, Mark-UK said:

September 2021 Tesla model 3 was the best selling car in Europe, the first time an all electric car has topped the chart and also the first time a non European manufacturer has topped the chart.

Car rental giant Hertz orders 100,000 Tesla for delivery  by 2022

So lot of people have confidence in EVs and are not fixated by ICE

Interesting that Elon has come out to deny any deal has been made with Hertz!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59132512?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA

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Well, I guess it makes sense. If you can sell your production at list price to retail customers, why do cut price deals with the likes of Hertz? If should also protect residual values.

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1 hour ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Among the many things that puzzle me about the climate change debate, is why the underlying cause of many of the issues - human overpopulation - never seems to get a mention.

No, I'm not advocating a mass cull (though I'm sure we could all nominate some candidates😀) but some measures to limit population growth must surely be at least as sensible as heat pumps, etc?

We've already had the cull so to speak with Covid. I'd like to know how much the National pension defecit has reduced since the pandemic.

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Problem is, the lockdowns meant people were stuck at home with nothing better to do than make more humans!! :unsure: 

Must admit, I have been a bit surprised by how many people I know that are having/had kids recently.  I can't understand the idea of choosing to bring them in to the middle of all the current chaos.

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1 hour ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Among the many things that puzzle me about the climate change debate, is why the underlying cause of many of the issues - human overpopulation - never seems to get a mention.

No, I'm not advocating a mass cull (though I'm sure we could all nominate some candidates😀) but some measures to limit population growth must surely be at least as sensible as heat pumps, etc?

China's "one child" policy was not a huge sucess story

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