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Energy chat, the future of car propulsion


StephenFord
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Just now, Guy Heaton said:

Yep, had it this morning.  I was half expecting it as I've only done short school journeys since March.

Ah, I'd say that's acceptable then. :smile: 

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1 hour ago, StephenFord said:

You may have to take your battery car out for a spin to check if your regenerative braking charging is working though LOL I'm sure in 20 years time, this forum will be littered with 'battery' faults we haven't even thought of yet!

Brake related problems do seem to be a bit of an issue with electrics though, from what I've seen so far. Regenerative braking on some models is apparently so good you can effectively drive on one pedal. The conventional brakes, which they still have to have (for now, I wonder if that's something that may change in future as things develop?), get so little use rusty discs need premature replacement. 

 

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1 hour ago, Guy Heaton said:

To drag the chat back to the subject 😂 here's a good argument for electric.  I've just had to go for a pointless hour's drive to try and clear my GPF.  I dunno if it's worked or wether I'l end up going to the dealers with it.

Yes, as I think we've discussed/moaned about elsewhere, this anti-emission kit on i/c engined cars has become such a PITA you feel like going for electric (or other alternative) anyway. Maybe that was the plan all along when this stuff was introduced!😀

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Fairly old news now, but I see the mainstream media have suddenly decided to feature the results of research that shows that the manufacturing process of an electric vehicle creates more CO2 than an ICE version. This is only offset by savings in use after around 50,000 miles, reducing to around 31,000 if the whole manufacturing process is carried out using 100% "green" power. 

So an average driver on, say, 8,000 miles a year would go up to over 6 years before saving any CO2. There would be savings in other tailpipe emissions of course, which the articles I've seen today didn't mention.

What amuses me is that I first saw this some time ago in an article by the technical director of Volvo's electric offshoot, Polestar. From the mention of Volvo/Polestar in the press today, I assume this is the same research they've just discovered😀.

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11 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Fairly old news now, but I see the mainstream media have suddenly decided to feature the results of research that shows that the manufacturing process of an electric vehicle creates more CO2 than an ICE version. This is only offset by savings in use after around 50,000 miles, reducing to around 31,000 if the whole manufacturing process is carried out using 100% "green" power. 

 

Just think how green Stephen will be in his cars with 160,000 mile average on them  😂

 

My last two cars I did over 110,000 in each.

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Lol, yes, I would have quickly been in front back in the day, but based on my mileage over the last few years it would probably take me longer than I've got left!

Still, it will make it easier to justify one last hot hatch with a reasonably clear conscience!😀

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1 hour ago, Mark-UK said:

Just think how green Stephen will be in his cars with 160,000 mile average on them  😂

 

My last two cars I did over 110,000 in each.

Indeed LOL and if I ran them to 200,000 they'd still have a lighter carbon footprint than building one single battery car! :laugh:

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CO2 is only one of the pollutants ic produces.

It's torque i like.  Torque is what makes a car feel luxurious.  That feeling of effortless acceleration.  Big lovely V8s have this.  And so does electric.

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39 minutes ago, Guy Heaton said:

CO2 is only one of the pollutants ic produces.

It's torque i like.  Torque is what makes a car feel luxurious.  That feeling of effortless acceleration.  Big lovely V8s have this.  And so does electric.

But at least with a V8 , it doesn't sound like your about to deliver the milk. 

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31 minutes ago, Guy Heaton said:

With respect, stories like that although heartbreaking, are media futile. In the same way that 620,000 die/year in UK, we swing the pendulum full one way to lock us all down, destroy our economy, and scare many people to the extent that they haven't crossed their home threshold in 9 months.

It is an awful story, but in the same way if someone loses their life walking in front of a train, we don't instantly ban trains.  3500/year die on UK roads, we haven't banned cars.

All things need to be taken into perspective and even as I write this, I know I sound like a heartless b*stard, but I'm really not, just a realist that knows all aspects of life come with risk...

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On 11/27/2020 at 7:56 PM, Guy Heaton said:

CO2 is only one of the pollutants ic produces.

It's torque i like.  Torque is what makes a car feel luxurious.  That feeling of effortless acceleration.  Big lovely V8s have this.  And so does electric.

Even the ‘cheaper’ Tesla’s do 0-60 less than 5 secs. 
Re your bbc post, Im not surprised. Glasgow city centre when grid locked, the fumes are horrible. Got a friend east end London, it’s 10x as bad. 
like it or not all Electric is coming. 
Ive a relative in USA , potentially buying an i3 for short term (8 months) 

They Always drove fords . Not little focus tho. Sent me this...

B247C4B2-BB5A-4792-8BCD-FA2A36EECE7E.png

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Yeah I worked in London for a good part of the 90s.  It was bad.

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  • 2 weeks later...

6 minutes ago, iantt said:

This article just shows the problems already happening with just the handful of electric cars at present. 

I'm one of the 95%. 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/electric-cars/96082/just-5-mechanics-can-work-electric-cars

 

 

Pure battery cars are a ridiculous mode of transport, especially where the environment is concerned. The carbon footprint created on the manufacture of the batteries alone, then them pretty much ending up in landfill, I'm afraid the young St Greta has mislead the whole world with a con!

(Oh, and if you are a first responder attending a crashed battery car, wear thick rubber gloves, the 400v coursing through the metal is lethal!)

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We got a big hook on a stick to drag the body away  from the high voltages.

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Recently checked this petition and still only on about 6,400 signatures. 

Pity that other petitions got bumped as this one was already running, I can see a lot of people not wanting to support it because of the way it was drafted. Mentioned it to a few friends and they didn't feel they could support it as written, though I know they are concerned that the Government may be going too fast and are not giving sufficient thought to alternative technologies.

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Exactly.  I could support a petition that said that electric might not be the best clean technology, but I can't support one that says "sod the environment, I just want to burn petrol until my lungs choke"

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3 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Recently checked this petition and still only on about 6,400 signatures. 

Pity that other petitions got bumped as this one was already running,

I fear that people are being far too pedantic about the wording. The 'petition' won't be enshrined in law, but merely act as a trigger for a parliamentary debate on the issue in which if  the debate proceeds, there will be ample opportunity to lobby your MP on your feelings...

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5 hours ago, StephenFord said:

I fear that people are being far too pedantic about the wording.

Very probably. Unfortunately the fact is that so far, they're simply not signing it, which is a shame as it's a serious issue which deserves proper debate and consideration. Still, it runs to May, so there's hope yet.

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Sorry I'm not signing your partition, we need to move from fussel fuels and stop damaging our little planet. I'm not for silly electric cars ether the range just sucks and would decades until the range is similar or better then a fueled car.  In my opinion we heading in the wrong direction and should be taking a serious look at Hydrogen fuel celled cars, clean burning and the most abundant gas in the universe would never run and the technology cleans as it goes. Literally the byproducts are oxygen and water, your clean the air and wash the roads as you drive. Win win 👍

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7 hours ago, Gaskell71 said:

Sorry I'm not signing your partition, we need to move from fussel fuels and stop damaging our little planet. I'm not for silly electric cars ether the range just sucks and would decades until the range is similar or better then a fueled car. 

I said...

I fear that people are being far too pedantic about the wording. The 'petition' won't be enshrined in law, but merely act as a trigger for a parliamentary debate on the issue...

Good to see you agree with me - even if you came to the wrong conclusion on what to do LOL

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2 hours ago, StephenFord said:

but merely act as a trigger for a parliamentary debate on the issue...

Unfortunately it looks as if, at the current rate, it will struggle to get the 100,000 signatures necessary to trigger the debate. As I mentioned earlier in the thread,  it's a great shame that some of the other petitions submitted which I found, did not get accepted because this one was already running.

They were much better drafted and balanced in tone, and I could see a lot more people would have been inclined to support them.

Of course, we can all make our views known to our MP's.

It does seem a shame, also, that Governments did not take small steps on this earlier, which might have given more time for better technologies to evolve. I'm thinking here about penalizing excess weight and size which would have stimulated efficiency. Why 2.5 tonne plus SUV's have been tolerated is beyond me.

 

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35 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Unfortunately it looks as if, at the current rate, it will struggle to get the 100,000 signatures necessary to trigger the debate.

 

I hate to get 'political', but here goes. The current government was voted with a manifesto that promised a 'consultation' on the issue of banning petrol/diesel engine cars. That consultation was entirely internal between the PM and Dominic Cummings. It should have been a proper public consultation, which it wasn't.

All I'm doing is supporting that there should be a proper debate over such an important issue rather than a unilateral government decision...

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