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Throttle body conversion


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Does anyone have any idea on whether a ford firsta st 150 throttle body, that is 60mm,  fit onto a non fiesta st engine? I have ford fiesta mk5/6 2002-2008. Would the bolt holes line up and would the electrical connector plugs for the throttle body be the same?

Have started to tune an engine up and was looking for bolt on upgrades, I understand that the mk5/6 engines used a lot of the same hardware through the range.

Your opinions are welcomed, thanks for reading.

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The 60 mm throttle body (2.3.Duratec HE engine) is a direct fit upgrade for the 55 mm 1.8/2.0 Duratec HE engine.

The 1.25, 1.4 and 1.6 Duratec engine uses a smaller 45 mm throttle body. This type of throttle body has a smaller/different bolt pattern from the 55/60 mm throttle body.


If you want to install a 55 or 60 mm throttle body onto a 1.25, 1.4 or 1.6 Duratec engine you need a custom made adapter plate. This however only makes sense if the intake manifold is also enlarged to approximately the same inside diameter. Apart from this a throttle body this size should only be installed to a fully modified high horsepower engine. On a standard or slightly modified 1.25, 1.4 or 1.6 Duratec engine the 55 / 60 mm throttle body will simply be too big. As a result of this the PCM will have trouble to regulate the airflow (especially at idle or low RPM's).

On a standard or slightly modified 1.25, 1.4 or 1.6 Duratec engine I recommend to use a custom 50 mm throttle body conversion. A standard 45 mm throttle body can easily be machined to 50 mm which allows to use a 50 mm Weber throttle plate. The weber throttle plate has the perfect angle/geometry and bolt hole dimensions to be used to modifiy the standard 45 mm throttle body.

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45 mm throttle body machined to 50 mm on a lathe.

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Difference between the 50 mm Weber throttle plate and the standard 45 mm throttle plate.

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Machined shaft to accept the larger throttle plate.

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Assembled 50 mm throttle body.


Back in the days (when I still owned a Focus MK2) I modified several of these throttle bodies. I even did some testing to modify one of these throttle bodies to 52 mm using a 52 mm dellorto throttle plate. This however made the engine run considerably less smooth at idle and low RPM's. Maybe not important for a race/track car but for a daily driver I preferred the 50 mm conversion.

 

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JW1982 thanks for your input, this information is gold. It is a shame I do not own a lathe and have the skills to use it to make the modification myself. 
 

Would you be willing to do this type of conversion for me, not free of course. If not where do you think I could get this done and how much would you reckon that type of work would cost?

 

Thanks for your post buddy, and nice car, by the way.😊

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Due to a very busy job I no longer have the ability to offer my services/finished products to other people. I suggest to find yourself a small local machine shop. For a skilled lathe operator machining of the throttle body should take approximately halve an hour to an hour. If you are lucky you find someone who is willing to do the machining in exchange for some beer.

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That's cool, brother, I may look into this at some point. I think that some beers would be a good exchange for that type of service but this is England and i'm sure that most people here are not really that nice lol.

Just out of interest what machine did you use for the pistons, would that be lathe work as well?

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I bought a new throttle body that was genuine ford and am looking into ways to modify it without using a lathe, although not many options seem to be very easy at all, and time consuming, I may try something. I can see right off the bat that the inside edge of the inlet pipe is quite wide and that the only place that needs to be shaved away is the area that houses the throttle plate, this could mean that it will be a little simpler and not too much metal will need to be removed.

 

JW i saw in another post you went into a bit more detail with the process you undertook to finish the project. May I ask where it was that you got the plastic blanking plate and exactly what do you mean by the end play of 0.05 mm?

 

Would this throttle plate be of the same specifics? Throttle Plate 50mm 83 deg | Webcon UK Ltd

 

On 11/23/2020 at 8:46 PM, JW1982 said:

The 60 mm throttle body (2.3.Duratec HE engine) is a direct fit upgrade for the 55 mm 1.8/2.0 Duratec HE engine.

The 1.25, 1.4 and 1.6 Duratec engine uses a smaller 45 mm throttle body. This type of throttle body has a smaller/different bolt pattern from the 55/60 mm throttle body.


If you want to install a 55 or 60 mm throttle body onto a 1.25, 1.4 or 1.6 Duratec engine you need a custom made adapter plate. This however only makes sense if the intake manifold is also enlarged to approximately the same inside diameter. Apart from this a throttle body this size should only be installed to a fully modified high horsepower engine. On a standard or slightly modified 1.25, 1.4 or 1.6 Duratec engine the 55 / 60 mm throttle body will simply be too big. As a result of this the PCM will have trouble to regulate the airflow (especially at idle or low RPM's).

On a standard or slightly modified 1.25, 1.4 or 1.6 Duratec engine I recommend to use a custom 50 mm throttle body conversion. A standard 45 mm throttle body can easily be machined to 50 mm which allows to use a 50 mm Weber throttle plate. The weber throttle plate has the perfect angle/geometry and bolt hole dimensions to be used to modifiy the standard 45 mm throttle body.

45 mm throttle body machined to 50 mm on a lathe.

Difference between the 50 mm Weber throttle plate and the standard 45 mm throttle plate.

 

Machined shaft to accept the larger throttle plate.

 

Assembled 50 mm throttle body.


Back in the days (when I still owned a Focus MK2) I modified several of these throttle bodies. I even did some testing to modify one of these throttle bodies to 52 mm using a 52 mm dellorto throttle plate. This however made the engine run considerably less smooth at idle and low RPM's. Maybe not important for a race/track car but for a daily driver I preferred the 50 mm conversion.

 

 

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4 hours ago, FiestaForever said:

JW i saw in another post you went into a bit more detail with the process you undertook to finish the project. May I ask where it was that you got the plastic blanking plate and exactly what do you mean by the end play of 0.05 mm?

End play would be movement on spindle back and forth.

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26 minutes ago, st line x 140 driver said:

End play would be movement on spindle back and forth.

Thanks for that st line, so if I was going to bore the body out a bit then it would need a little extra space either side for the plate to move slightly from left to right in the housing.

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Ok, so I have received the throttle body from ebay for the great price of £30, not bad for genuine ford. 

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Starting to take it apart bit by bit, the first issue has reared its ugly head in the shape of one of the body fixing bolts breaking while trying to remove it, 3 out of 4 isn't bad. I will drill this out and tap the hole or just put another bolt in with a nut on the end.

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Managing to remove most of the components with relative ease, it seems it isn't too difficult to get the body to its bear bones, although a bit of elbow grease to get the end cap out, a bit of drilling and leverage with a small screw driver did the trick in the end.

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 Inside the throttle body shaft there is an area that is raised from the edges of the body, where the throttle plate sits, this is the place that needs to be removed to allow a larger throttle plate to be fitted and move freely.

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This is as far as I have got with this project so far, will be uploading more pictures as the project progresses. Hopefully this will turn out ok, but i have to take into account the fact that things can and will probably break with a too heavy hand.😜

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Got a few more things to help me with this conversion, still waiting for the throttle plate which is taking forever to arrive, they aint kidding with economy delivery😮

Got a carbide burr to go with my multitool which is usually for stainless steel and iron products so it should be ok with aluminium. Also have bought a tungsten carbide steel hole cutter at 50mm which may well be handy to get a more precise hole cut after the inner lip has been ground down with the burr, the hole cutter is not usually for boring, exactly, but may be ok for this use. We will see what transpires🤞😜🤞

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The end cap is way too deep and will need to be modified to fit, or a different one will need to be found, superglue is my friend.😁

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Finally the throttle plate has arrived, thank god the holes are in the same location as the old plate.

I bought a drill stand so I can drill the hole more precisely as I doubt hand held boring will do the trick, it was fairly cheap so all good. Bit disappointed with the drill bit though as it is not 50mm, when stated, so that's going back for something else.

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An update!! Decided to take the throttle body to a machinist, as the work I will do will probably not be all that precise and JW1982 has quite rightly advised that a very fine attention to detail and extremely precise operation is what is needed to get the job done.

What is it with tradesman's these days though, they don't like giving a straight answer to anything. You explain that it will be a small job to bore and they come back with the, "It may be a small job to bore, but it may take an hour to set up". I would never expect any one to do something for free but it seems that people don't do things to help people out any more, you just see pound signs flashing in their eyes🤑.

Where there is a will there is a way.

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That is because it might take an hour to set the job up. Like most "simple" jobs, the work is in the preparation.

They aren't trying to bodge it with five bob files, a plastic calliper and a Chinese Dremel copy. They are running a business and know what they are doing. The work demands the wage. Do you know what their tools cost? 

"a very fine attention to detail and extremely precise operation is what is needed to get the job done."

Do you think that experience, quality and know how come for free?

 

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2 hours ago, anon said:

That is because it might take an hour to set the job up. Like most "simple" jobs, the work is in the preparation.

They aren't trying to bodge it with five bob files, a plastic calliper and a Chinese Dremel copy. They are running a business and know what they are doing. The work demands the wage. Do you know what their tools cost? 

"a very fine attention to detail and extremely precise operation is what is needed to get the job done."

Do you think that experience, quality and know how come for free?

 

LoL @ "bodge it".🤭 It is surprising the lengths people go to save some money and a chinese dremel copy and five or even six bob files would do a decent enough job if it was done properly. The first metal worker I spoke to said they could grind it and I am pretty sure that they are running a business and know what they are doing. How much do their tools cost by the way, I am interested, can you tell me?

I agree that there is a very fine detail needed here to get the job done, there is no disillusion there, and no I do not think that anything in this world comes for free, least of all a product produced by people with years of knowledge, hard work, experience and qualifications.🧐

You come across like you are quite offended about what I wrote, do you have any ties to the metal manufacturing trade by any chance?🤔

By the way I think you should take what people write on the internet with a pinch of salt as many of us may sound more serious about a situation than that is really the case.😀

Thanks for your input, your opinion has been duly noted😁

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I do a certain amount of work on a home built cnc milling machine. It has its limtations but only cost £1500. When I wanted the  wing strut ends for my aeroplane, I did not trust my workmanship. I took the drawings and materials to an engineering company who made all six parts for £100, which was remarkably cheap. They have now closed down. Just look on Ebay for machine shop gear. There is loads about. Small engineering companies are dropping like flies, largely because people are unwilling to pay for skilled tradesmen. I don't get it. Those same people will pay £100 an hour to have a Fiesta's oil changed.

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38 minutes ago, tomshepp said:

I do a certain amount of work on a home built cnc milling machine. It has its limtations but only cost £1500. When I wanted the  wing strut ends for my aeroplane, I did not trust my workmanship. I took the drawings and materials to an engineering company who made all six parts for £100, which was remarkably cheap. They have now closed down. Just look on Ebay for machine shop gear. There is loads about. Small engineering companies are dropping like flies, largely because people are unwilling to pay for skilled tradesmen. I don't get it. Those same people will pay £100 an hour to have a Fiesta's oil changed.

Please thats cheap at  least £140/hr - you go to football matches (once upon a time) to see players getting £350k a week f1 drivers £1million at least per race Boxers earning £10million for 16 minutes work. - Small potatoes all i can say .

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9 hours ago, tomshepp said:

I do a certain amount of work on a home built cnc milling machine. It has its limtations but only cost £1500. When I wanted the  wing strut ends for my aeroplane, I did not trust my workmanship. I took the drawings and materials to an engineering company who made all six parts for £100, which was remarkably cheap. They have now closed down. Just look on Ebay for machine shop gear. There is loads about. Small engineering companies are dropping like flies, largely because people are unwilling to pay for skilled tradesmen. I don't get it. Those same people will pay £100 an hour to have a Fiesta's oil changed.

I agree there is a certain lack of skilled tradesmen when it comes to metal work, this industry used to be a leader at one point before automation. £1500 seems very reasonable for a CNC machine I was expecting costs of over £5000 to be fair. 

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8 hours ago, st line x 140 driver said:

Please thats cheap at  least £140/hr - you go to football matches (once upon a time) to see players getting £350k a week f1 drivers £1million at least per race Boxers earning £10million for 16 minutes work. - Small potatoes all i can say .

The first chap i spoke to who was a bit further afield to me spoke of his hourly rates being £65 an hour, and they are a foundry and fabricators/machining shop. The second guy who I'm with now, not far down the road, says £55 on the books and £40 by the hour cash, I will more than likely be paying them cash in hand as the incomes low. I am probably expecting at least a few hours tally for the work. Money well spent.🙂

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The mill cost me £1500 because I built it myself. It is not a large machine which could easily cost a twenty times that.

The nine inch long lathe I use for watchmaking was about £600 an inch- without any accessories!

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4 minutes ago, tomshepp said:

The mill cost me £1500 because I built it myself. It is not a large machine which could easily cost a twenty times that.

The nine inch long lathe I use for watchmaking was about £600 an inch- without any accessories!

I see some very cheap micro lathes on amazon for small jobs, and some second hand larger ones that are not a bank breaker for someone employed. It's a case of knowing how to use them that is the issue, you could find one super cheap and still not know one end of it from the other.

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I was taught how to use a lathe 45 years ago and the mill 30 years ago by people who really knew metallurgy and machine tools. I dabble fairly competently but it isn't my trade.

Cheap micro or mini lathes are a complete waste of money. If you want to learn how to turn, read a couple of old books and look out for somebody who can properly evaluate an old Myford ml7 which will last longer and provide better results even if half knackered. A good one will be as good as its user; well up to making model aircraft engine parts, for example.

Reckon to spend £1000 getting going and ten years getting good.

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