New Covid vaccine - would you take it?

[StephenFord]

10 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

This article (a couple of months old now) puts another interesting slant on the statistics:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-many-covid-hospitalisations-are-caused-by-covid-

 

Sums up by anger at the BBC in one simple sentence, "One lesson for the next pandemic is not to roll out daily statistics of cases, hospitalisations and deaths without contextualising those figures..." You cannot constantly highlight one single reason of UK deaths without saying what other causes exist, and how those figures fall within that scale.

[unofix]

On 9/26/2021 at 8:40 AM, StephenFord said:

at the BBC

I normally try to avoid political topics, not because I don't have an opinion but quite the opposite. I have very strong views on most things in life, but realised a few years back that no matter how much I try and argue a point (of which I'm quite sure I'm 100% right) it is unlikely to make the slightest of difference to anything other than my blood pressure.

Today I came across this goverment information (shown yesterday on the BBC) and felt it worth just showing how as a nation we are being manipulated and mislead. So as I, and many others have suspected for along time now, alleged Covid death rates are being faked.

This screen shot is taken of the Goverment official figures Sunday 3rd October 2021. Note the bottom line:

"Deaths for ANY reason within 28 days of a postive test"  and yes that does include being run over by a bus !

 

 

[erictcleric]

Perhaps they were so distracted at getting a positive covid test result they didn't notice the bus coming towards them. In which case you could argue the cause of death was covid. 

But it's a good point about statistics. There's no context to the numbers. Part of the problem is also how deaths are recorded: on the death certificate it might say the person died of multiple organ failure, but is that linked to the positive covid test they had, or is it an unrelated issue? 

[pcaouolte]

Of course, if someone stays in hospital for 29 days after a positive Covid test and then dies they don't get included in that statistic. That is one reason why the number of deaths with Covid-19 mentioned on the death certificate is higher than the number given by the measurement method shown above.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

2 hours ago, unofix said:

I normally try to avoid political topics, not because I don't have an opinion but quite the opposite. I have very strong views on most things in life, but realised a few years back that no matter how much I try and argue a point (of which I'm quite sure I'm 100% right) it is unlikely to make the slightest of difference to anything other than my blood pressure.

Lol, not long into our marriage my dear wife presented me with a little wall plaque which reads "When I married Mr Right I didn't realise his first name was always!" 

Back to the serious point, I agree, it seems very hard (for some reason) to get the correct data on which to form an opinion. The BBC screenshot differs from the way things are presented on the Government "dashboard" which defines it:

"Total number of deaths of people who had had a positive test result for COVID-19 and died within 28 days of the first positive test reported on or up to the date of death or reporting date (depending on availability).

People who died more than 28 days after their first positive test are not included, whether or not COVID-19 was the cause of death."

 Even then it's not clear whether they are saying the deaths within 28 days mentioned in the first paragraph had Covid as the main cause of death, and again it's different to the ONS definition which I mentioned a few posts back and which does seem to imply that deaths from e.g. stepping in front of a bus are not included.

All most unsatisfactory. I'm pretty sure my old MD would have kicked my a*se very hard indeed if I'd presented him with information of this quality!😃

I've historically held the Beeb in high regard but one does wonder lately. If we're confused/suspicious about the quality of the data then I would have expected a serious news organisation to be getting to the bottom of this one.

I understand that "Mad Nad" Dorries, the new Culture Secretary, has put the Beeb on notice about "wokery" so we shall see if she gets anywhere with that!

I mentioned in an earlier post that I had contacted the ONS about the way they were presenting percentages of people wearing face masks outside the home, which keeps being quoted in the media. I was pleased to get a response which accepted the point and said they would consider how the info could be better presented. Next time I saw a quote in the press they had been as good as their word and clarified it.

So it could be worth contacting them again about the deaths figure - I assume the statistics will come from them in the first instance.

Edit PS:

I would also like to know how many people have been admitted to hospital or other healthcare setting for a reason other than Covid, and have caught it in there. You do occasionally see this mentioned in the press, so I assume they get it via a FOI request but I've not seen it generally available anywhere.

[williamweb]

I’ve said in the past  I have no confidence in Covid stats.I think it’s more sensible to generalise and look at trends.Although every death is someone’s loved one and tragic.Apparently because I haven’t looked, there is an interesting stat to me that 2% of Covid deaths have been attributed so far to the unmasked.

[Tizer]

3 hours ago, unofix said:

So as I, and many others have suspected for along time now, alleged Covid death rates are being faked.

Yes the 28 day one is an underestimate. In Scotland the number of deaths where Covid is mentioned on the death certificate has been consistently about 20% higher than the 28 day one since the start.  

[Eric Bloodaxe]

1 hour ago, Tizer said:

Yes the 28 day one is an underestimate. In Scotland the number of deaths where Covid is mentioned on the death certificate has been consistently about 20% higher than the 28 day one since the start.  

That ties in with the overall UK figure on the "dashboard" which last night stood as:

Deaths within 28 days of positive test:               136,953

Deaths with Covid 19 on the Death certificate: 159,716 

What we all seem to be struggling with though, is whether the 28 day figure means people who died for any reason at all, who just happened to have tested positive within 28 days, or whether Covid was the principal cause of death.

I understand that the second figure is people who died where Covid was mentioned as one of the causes on the death certificate, but again, I'm not clear if that means they would have died anyway of the other causes. I've looked at an awful lot of death certificates in the course of my research into family history, and in most cases it's easy to see what the principal cause was but they seem to have put all sorts on there for good measure. 

As William says above, it seems awful to almost "nit-pick" at figures behind real human tragedies, but I do think it's important that we have clarity. Otherwise, again as William mentioned, we're reduced to looking at overall figures for mortality, and guessing that any increase over long term trends is probably down to Covid.

 

 

 

[unofix]

1 hour ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

I've historically held the Beeb in high regard but one does wonder lately.

Yes I used to always think if it was reported by the BBC it must be right. Very sadly for about 5 years now I tend never to believe anything that the BBC report (even the weather). They are so inter-linked with the goverment and so afraid if they report something in a way that the goverment might not like they could find the licence fee being scrapped.

The reporting of the whole Covid pandemic by almost all major news channels has been one of don't question what your goverment says, just do as you're told. The free press around the world seems more like what you would expect the Chinese state news to report.

[williamweb]

Apparently, yes  just 2%, an ONS stat.

[unofix]

4 minutes ago, williamweb said:

 just 2% an ONS stat.

and 98% B.S.

[williamweb]

3 minutes ago, unofix said:

and 98% B.S.

I’m not an expert so I can’t confirm ha ha 👍

[Eric Bloodaxe]

22 minutes ago, williamweb said:

Apparently, yes  just 2% an ONS stat.

Presumably the data mentioned in this article?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10032777/People-dont-wear-face-masks-TWICE-likely-test-positive-Covid-data-suggests.html

 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

20 minutes ago, williamweb said:

I’m not an expert so I can’t confirm ha ha 👍

A colleague of mine had special business cards which he handed out where he felt it appropriate. On the front it was just as normal - name, job title, etc - but on the back he'd had printed "I'm a bit of a bullsh*tter myself, so it's always a pleasure and privilege to meet a real expert!"😃

[williamweb]

6 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

A colleague of mine had special business cards which he handed out where he felt it appropriate. On the front it was just as normal - name, job title, etc - but on the back he'd had printed "I'm a bit of a bullsh*tter myself, so it's always a pleasure and privilege to meet a real expert!"😃

Just had a look on the ONS site.I wouldn’t recommend it😁

[williamweb]

1 hour ago, unofix said:

Yes I used to always think if it was reported by the BBC it must be right. Very sadly for about 5 years now I tend never to believe anything that the BBC report (even the weather). They are so inter-linked with the goverment and so afraid if they report something in a way that the goverment might not like they could find the licence fee being scrapped.

The reporting of the whole Covid pandemic by almost all major news channels has been one of don't question what your goverment says, just do as you're told. The free press around the world seems more like what you would expect the Chinese state news to report.

I gave up on the license nearly a year ago👍

[Tizer]

1 hour ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

What we all seem to be struggling with though, is whether the 28 day figure means people who died for any reason at all, who just happened to have tested positive within 28 days, or whether Covid was the principal cause of death.

There may be a very few cases where Covid had nothing to do with their deaths, but the numbers are likely to be statistically insignificant.

I still prefer the Death Certificate one, and there may be some where Covid was not a very significant reason, but that is likely to be statistically insignificant too.

I don't want to bore everyone with the details of my own families experiences but when my elderly mother caught it she could have quite easily died, not because of lack of oxygen, her SO2 levels never dropped below 96, but she would have choked to death if we did not know how to do the Heimlich Manoeuvre.

This happened on several occasions including long after 28 days and is something that she had not suffered from before getting Covid and is still happening to a lesser extent one year later.

So as far as I'm concerned if she had died from choking either within or after 28 days then Covid would have been the reason and should be counted. For anyone to suggest otherwise is nonsense.

As for masks, the above episode convinced me that normal Class One masks are very effective for the wearer, either that or several people who had very close contact with her when she would have been a spreader just got lucky. That was against the variant that was doing the rounds last year, so may not be relevant with the Delta variant. 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

I'm on statins like many others, no doubt. I see in the news today there may be a hidden bonus as a study suggests they could reduce your chances of dying from Covid by up to 12%. 

 

 

 

[unofix]

1 minute ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

they could reduce your chances of dying from Covid by up to 12%.

and increase your chances of dying from blood clots by 50% 🤣

[iantt]

1 hour ago, unofix said:

and increase your chances of dying from blood clots by 50% 🤣

Or choking on the tablets. 😂😂

[Eric Bloodaxe]

18 hours ago, unofix said:

and increase your chances of dying from blood clots by 50% 🤣

Hey guys, I know we're having a laugh here but I wouldn't want yet another ant-vax type scare to be triggered!😀

There are around 7 million people on statins in the UK, many of them, like myself, for reasons of stroke and heart attack prevention due to the effects of statins in reducing the risk of blood clotting.

The study I mentioned suggested that they may be helpful in reducing Covid mortality for that reason, blood clotting being a common complication of Covid.

The study, which was carried out in Sweden, did show that those on statins have lower Covid mortality, but whether this is directly due to the statins, or is because those taking statins are generally older (and thus more likely to have been fully vaccinated), is not yet clearly established imo. It's an interesting one though and it could see statins being added to the armoury of Covid treatments in due course.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[StephenFord]

Had my flu jab this morning, a queue a mile long, but with 6 treatment rooms in operation, was in/out in 4 minutes! My 84 years old mum still to be called for one, but I was told they're waiting to get the 'booster' Covid jab so they can do both at the same time for the real oldies...

[unofix]

1 hour ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

which was carried out in Sweden, did show that those on statins have lower Covid mortality, but whether this is directly due to the statins, or is because those taking statins are generally older (and thus more likely to have been fully vaccinated)

Sweden !! a place with original thinking. I like the fact they just do their own thing and get on with lfe without worrying about what everyone else is doing (well of course there is one exception 🤣)

 

[StephenFord]

1 minute ago, unofix said:

Sweden !! a place with original thinking

They do lovely meatballs too! LOL

[unofix]

Ah yes ! who could forget the Swedish Chef 🤣