Luxury Hatchbacks - Focus Vignale Equivalents?

[TomsFocus]

Some of you will know I made a huge mistake buying a car this week that turned out not be suitable for my rubbish body...sadly I can't replace that, (believe me, I'd happily spend thousands replacing that if it was an option!) so need to alter my car choice instead.

I bought a sporty model, although it had independent rear suspension, and adaptive suspension with a comfort mode.  Sadly this wasn't enough to counteract the 18" alloys and lowered sports springs.  As I can't have anything sporty, I want to go right the other way and have full luxury instead.  Needs to be petrol and have at least 150bhp.  Needs to be Focus sized and ideally have IRS.  Needs to be under 2 years old so I've still got some warranty left.  

Considered Mk4 Focus Vignale with the 1.5 EcoBoost but I've just seen they fitted 18" alloys with ST profile tyres to them.  What is the point of that FFS!?  I know they all have IRS and comfort springs but I still can't see the 18's riding smoothly enough, once bitten, twice shy!  Bear in mind I can only just about manage my Golf Match (comfort springs & IRS) with 205/55/16 tyres.

So are there any other luxury hatch equivalents that fit that criteria?

[YOG]

What sort of price level?

[Wino]

Have you test driven the Mk4 Vignale ? 

Ours is the ST Line X with 18inch alloys (standard fit) and tbh I don't find it a harsh ride at all and I sufferwith Piriformis and a tight back and have no issues whatsoever.

The reason we changed from the Mk3 Focus was due to the lateral support in the seats as it was giving me grief every trip long or short.

[Guy Heaton]

Focus Active X Vignale?  If it rides anything like the missus Fiesta active it should be really nice.

[Wino]

1 minute ago, Guy Heaton said:

Focus Active X Vignale?  If it rides anything like the missus Fiesta active it should be really nice.

When we looking to change cars the Mrs wanted a smaller car but with me being 6ft 3in I argued the toss and also referred to the boot size as both dogs ( Boxers 35kg and 38kg each)  would not fit in the boot even though they havent set a paw in the focus as of yet but now we only have one it would be feasible.

Back to the point of my ramblings ( sorry) the Fiesta active Vignale was really comfy when we looked at it in the showroom and probably would of been a contender if we'd not got the focus ( shhhhh!). 

[TomsFocus]

1 hour ago, YOG said:

What sort of price level?

£15k-ish. 

1 hour ago, Wino said:

Have you test driven the Mk4 Vignale ? 

Ours is the ST Line X with 18inch alloys (standard fit) and tbh I don't find it a harsh ride at all and I sufferwith Piriformis and a tight back and have no issues whatsoever.

The reason we changed from the Mk3 Focus was due to the lateral support in the seats as it was giving me grief every trip long or short.

I haven't.  One of the more frustrating issues that I have is agoraphobia & social anxiety causing nausea from trying to go out and deal with any people. Making test drives impossible as I already feel too ill before getting anywhere near a car I want to test.   

I just have to 'follow the science' and make an educated guess on ride comfort from tyre size, vehicle weight and ride height etc.  Needless to say it went wrong this time, and has previously gone wrong a few other times.  Previous cars that I've bought and found undriveable over more than a very short distance include an Audi A3 Sport, Peugeot 107 Envy, Peugeot 306 GTi6, Mk6 Fiesta ST150 and even the 1.4 LX.  Also know from experience that I can't drive a Mk7 Fiesta or Suzuki Swift.  So basically stick to Focus sized and above, and with comfort suspension now.

I don't have any back problems (yet at least!), my main issues with ride are stomach & bowel related so even a ride that seems fairly smooth to most people can make me nauseous very quickly. 

I wonder if Ford would let me have an extended test drive of maybe a couple of hours in an Approved Used one...  I'm guessing not though.

 

24 minutes ago, Guy Heaton said:

Focus Active X Vignale?  If it rides anything like the missus Fiesta active it should be really nice.

Didn't know they made them tbh!  

Just looked on Autotrader and they all seem too knew for my budget sadly.  Plenty of Active X's though, what's the spec difference between the two?

Also, not sure if I've been watching too much Naked attraction but why do Ford seem to be obsessed with phallic wheel designs at the moment!?  

[TomsFocus]

Did we ever work out what date 1.5EBs stopped getting IRS?  Looks like a Titanium X might be a possible compromise with 17s and more in budget...  There are a few 1.5 EB TX's on Cazoo which might be the best way for me buy this time.

 

[Guy Heaton]

Vignale gets a rear camera and a host of pointless driver "aids" you don't need.

 

[Comares2001]

23 minutes ago, Guy Heaton said:

Vignale gets a rear camera and a host of pointless driver "aids" you don't need.

 

Like what  ? apart from park assist  I find everything else useful

[pragmatix]

@TomsFocus have you considered a Cmax ofr the grand Cmax (I love the sliding rear doors) both have IRS easy to get in and out of ride very nicely and handle pretty sharply too. I've got heated seats, dual zone a/c heated steering wheel, inverter, speed limiter, cruise control , sync 3, great underrated car as you know based on the focus good range of engines too.

[Alex.S]

Whoever thought up cazoo must be raking it in! Is it 14 days test drive time? I’d take full advantage of that deal. They’d probably hate you if you tried out several but who cares. Don’t need to deal with people either. 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

9 minutes ago, Alex.S said:

Whoever thought up cazoo must be raking it in! 

 I believe it is Alex Chesterman, who was the brains behind the Zoopla property site, now sold on. I read somewhere he donated about £300,000 to a political party for the last elsction, so probably has a few bob!😃

[Alex.S]

7 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

 I believe it is Alex Chesterman, who was the brains behind the Zoopla property site, now sold on. I read somewhere he donated about £300,000 to a political party for the last elsction, so probably has a few bob!😃

A middle man taking full advantage of our now contactless society. A week (or 2?) test drive time is great. 

[Tizer]

1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

Did we ever work out what date 1.5EBs stopped getting IRS?  Looks like a Titanium X might be a possible compromise with 17s and more in budget...  There are a few 1.5 EB TX's on Cazoo which might be the best way for me buy this time.

 

I'm certain it was early to mid May 2019. Mine was built on 15th May 2019 and I think it was one of the first to have a Torsion Beam rear suspension.

On a more general point and from my own experience, how a car should handle on paper and how it does in real life are two different things. Mine should have had 205 60 16 tyres but Ford decided to appease the greens by fitting 195 65 16 tyres to it (at the same time as they changed the suspension I think).

You would think that it would have a very soft ride but it doesn't, it is not very compliant. That may be down to the recommended Tyre pressures being 38 psi all round, or maybe the V rated Michelin Tyres. In contrast to that I had a courtesy car for 6 weeks which was a sporty version of a Fiesta Active without active suspension and very low profile tyres and it did not handle any worse in terms of compliance.

I believe the cars had the exact same suspension design, at least on the rear, so the only other variable was the difference in size and weight. That maybe why your Golf felt better than your new larger car.

[anon]

Have you tried a set of 16 or 17" wheels on what you have?

[Eric Bloodaxe]

1 hour ago, Tizer said:

On a more general point and from my own experience, how a car should handle on paper and how it does in real life are two different things. Mine should have had 205 60 16 tyres but Ford decided to appease the greens by fitting 195 65 16 tyres to it (at the same time as they changed the suspension I think).

Possibly hard compound to give low rolling resistance?

Yes, it's not always as simple as smaller wheels with high profile tyres = better ride. How the tyres, suspension, geometry are set up to complement each other can make big differences. Alpinas, for example, normally have bigger wheels/lower profile tyres and yet consistently seem to achieve a better ride than the BMW on which they are based.

No help to us ordinary mortals though, who just have to try as many versions as we can and hope we can find something that works for us!😃

 

[Tizer]

4 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Possibly hard compound to give low rolling resistance?

You are probably correct. They do seem to be good quality and they have hardly worn. The frightening thing is that there are only about 4 tyres that size with the correct speed and load rating and the other 3 are cheap makes with poor performance ratings. 

On the bright side it is impossible to kerb the wheels with those tyres and the sidewalls seem to be hard because they have not been marked when they have came into contact with kerbs and some big potholes. 

[TomsFocus]

3 hours ago, pragmatix said:

@TomsFocus have you considered a Cmax ofr the grand Cmax (I love the sliding rear doors) both have IRS easy to get in and out of ride very nicely and handle pretty sharply too. I've got heated seats, dual zone a/c heated steering wheel, inverter, speed limiter, cruise control , sync 3, great underrated car as you know based on the focus good range of engines too.

I haven't to be totally honest...  I've got one more year of my 20s left so not sure I've quite reached C-Max stage yet!

Also can't say that I've seen any on my AT searches so far...not sure why that would be.  They did still make them on 19 plate I thought?

3 hours ago, Alex.S said:

Whoever thought up cazoo must be raking it in! Is it 14 days test drive time? I’d take full advantage of that deal. They’d probably hate you if you tried out several but who cares. Don’t need to deal with people either. 

I think so...but there's probably some small print!

With the car I bought I get 30 days to exchange.  Though sadly the small print states that it must be from the same dealer, and cost equal or more than the original car.  And you can only do it once, can't exchange the exchange!

Not dealing with the people is the main bonus for Cazoo!  They seem to have some scruffy cars though, the black Titanium X looks pretty rough in thier defect photos.

1 hour ago, anon said:

Have you tried a set of 16 or 17" wheels on what you have?

I have considered it but there are too many downsides.

I'd have to spend another ~£500 on a set of 17s (16s won't clear the brakes).

I can't bend or lift the trolley jack any more so would have to pay someone else to swap them.

I live in a studio flat so have nowhere to store the 18s.

And after all that, if the ride is no better I'll be out of the 14 days, out of pocket, and need to do the lot in reverse to get the car back to standard for sale and sell the wheels separately as well.

Not worth the risk.

[TomsFocus]

2 hours ago, Tizer said:

I'm certain it was early to mid May 2019. Mine was built on 15th May 2019 and I think it was one of the first to have a Torsion Beam rear suspension.

On a more general point and from my own experience, how a car should handle on paper and how it does in real life are two different things. Mine should have had 205 60 16 tyres but Ford decided to appease the greens by fitting 195 65 16 tyres to it (at the same time as they changed the suspension I think).

You would think that it would have a very soft ride but it doesn't, it is not very compliant. That may be down to the recommended Tyre pressures being 38 psi all round, or maybe the V rated Michelin Tyres. In contrast to that I had a courtesy car for 6 weeks which was a sporty version of a Fiesta Active without active suspension and very low profile tyres and it did not handle any worse in terms of compliance.

I believe the cars had the exact same suspension design, at least on the rear, so the only other variable was the difference in size and weight. That maybe why your Golf felt better than your new larger car.

That's good to know.  So I should still be able to get one on a 19 plate with IRS.  That'll give me just over 12 months warranty.

Your car was built on my Mums 50th lol.  

It's a shame it's not compliant even on those tyres...they look a bit ridiculous too tbf!  I do want to avoid twist beam if at all possible.

New car isn't any larger, I think it's a bit smaller if anything.  Based on the Mk7 Golf platform though, whereas my Golf is Mk6, essentially a facelift Mk5 from the late 00s so I'd kind of hoped chassis's and suspension had improved since!  I did have the option of changing to an equivalent comfort model...but that would have meant dropping engine size and getting stuck with twist beam on that as well!

[Guy Heaton]

4 hours ago, Comares2001 said:

Like what  ? apart from park assist  I find everything else useful

Lane assist?  Thanks cos I can't see those great big white lines. 

Collision avoidance, oh look there's a fly 100 yards away, ALERT ALERT!!!

Blindspot?  Dunno what the Ford one is like but my mates Civic just bongs constantly.

Speed limit recognition?  I've got eyes and I know my highway code.

None of these are a help, they are to develop the tech for driverless cars.

 

[Tizer]

1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

So I should still be able to get one on a 19 plate with IRS.

If you do manage to venture out to see some Focus's then I'm sure that Keyless Entry to the rear doors was dropped at the same time as the suspension change so you should be able to tell at a glance what suspension it has before double checking of course. I'm also sure that adjustable suspension option was also dropped at the same time for all except the Vignale.

To be fair regarding the suspension and tyres, the roads where I live are heavily populated with HGV's, Double Decker Busses and commuter traffic so they are always in a terrible state, so maybe I'm a bit critical. 

[Comares2001]

9 hours ago, Guy Heaton said:

Lane assist?  Thanks cos I can't see those great big white lines. 

Collision avoidance, oh look there's a fly 100 yards away, ALERT ALERT!!!

Blindspot?  Dunno what the Ford one is like but my mates Civic just bongs constantly.

Speed limit recognition?  I've got eyes and I know my highway code.

None of these are a help, they are to develop the tech for driverless cars.

 

Its a personal opinion of course but most of those features are standard across the range not just on the Vignale and are soon to be mandatory on all new vehicles which probably why Ford and other manufacturers are fitting them already on new models.

[Morty1977]

18 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

£15k-ish. 

I haven't.  One of the more frustrating issues that I have is agoraphobia & social anxiety causing nausea from trying to go out and deal with any people. Making test drives impossible as I already feel too ill before getting anywhere near a car I want to test.   

I just have to 'follow the science' and make an educated guess on ride comfort from tyre size, vehicle weight and ride height etc.  Needless to say it went wrong this time, and has previously gone wrong a few other times.  Previous cars that I've bought and found undriveable over more than a very short distance include an Audi A3 Sport, Peugeot 107 Envy, Peugeot 306 GTi6, Mk6 Fiesta ST150 and even the 1.4 LX.  Also know from experience that I can't drive a Mk7 Fiesta or Suzuki Swift.  So basically stick to Focus sized and above, and with comfort suspension now.

I don't have any back problems (yet at least!), my main issues with ride are stomach & bowel related so even a ride that seems fairly smooth to most people can make me nauseous very quickly. 

I wonder if Ford would let me have an extended test drive of maybe a couple of hours in an Approved Used one...  I'm guessing not though.

 

Didn't know they made them tbh!  

Just looked on Autotrader and they all seem too knew for my budget sadly.  Plenty of Active X's though, what's the spec difference between the two?

Also, not sure if I've been watching too much Naked attraction but why do Ford seem to be obsessed with phallic wheel designs at the moment!?  

Great programme Naked a

Attraction!! Got some guts then lot going on there 🙂

[TomsFocus]

12 hours ago, Guy Heaton said:

Lane assist?  Thanks cos I can't see those great big white lines. 

Collision avoidance, oh look there's a fly 100 yards away, ALERT ALERT!!!

Blindspot?  Dunno what the Ford one is like but my mates Civic just bongs constantly.

Speed limit recognition?  I've got eyes and I know my highway code.

None of these are a help, they are to develop the tech for driverless cars.

 

Surely the Active Vignale gets full leathers and LED headlights like the normal Focus?  Those 2 are really the 'luxury' spec I was after and did get both on the Leon I bought.  The Focus Vignale exhausts look cool as well, though admittedly I won't see them from the drivers seat lol.  As Brian says, everything else you've listed comes on the TX anyway I think.

Does anyone know if the suspension was the same on the Tit, TX and Vignale for the same engine size?  Just seems odd that Winos Vignale rides ok on 18s but Tizers Titanium doesn't on 16s...wondering if they softened the suspension on the Vignale to cope with the larger wheels.  Though IMO it's better to soak up rough roads through tyre sidewall and leave the suspension to deal with bigger bumps.

11 hours ago, Tizer said:

If you do manage to venture out to see some Focus's then I'm sure that Keyless Entry to the rear doors was dropped at the same time as the suspension change so you should be able to tell at a glance what suspension it has before double checking of course. I'm also sure that adjustable suspension option was also dropped at the same time for all except the Vignale.

To be fair regarding the suspension and tyres, the roads where I live are heavily populated with HGV's, Double Decker Busses and commuter traffic so they are always in a terrible state, so maybe I'm a bit critical. 

I doubt I'll be able to go and see any in the flesh but thanks for the heads up.  Keyless handles have a wifi symbol on them right?  I can always take my telescopic mirror to look underneath anyway!  Might get some funny looks though...'Sir, the car's only a year old, you won't find any rust under there'...   

I didn't know adjustable suspension was an option on comfort models.  Thought it was only an ST option.  I take it it's not fitted as standard to the Vignale?  @Wino does yours have it?

I live near Britain's largest container port...needless the say the main roads are wrecked around here!  The alternative is backroads which tend to look in better condition but they're all bumpy and undulating which can be just as bad.  

[Eric Bloodaxe]

3 hours ago, Comares2001 said:

Its a personal opinion of course but most of those features are standard across the range not just on the Vignale and are soon to be mandatory on all new vehicles which probably why Ford and other manufacturers are fitting them already on new models.

Yes, I agree, Brian. Unfortunately a lot of the stuff I don't like on modern cars is mandated by legislation, not the manufacturer.