Checking out the competitors.

[Connorfinn]

I finally decided to get rid of my 2018 Mk4 ST Line X 1.0 Ecoboost, personally I went through a turbo, (under warranty) and then a flywheel and clutch at my own expense due to knocking on cold starts. I completely lost all confidence in the car and as I needed more boot space ended up getting a Mazda 6 estate

honestly the best decision I've made (got £3.5k cashback from the equity I had in my focus) and still paying exactly the same on monthly payments, but its so nice to finally drive a car that I'm not waiting for the next thing to potentially go wrong or the dreaded Ecoboom engine to rear it's ugly head

For the sake of all MK4 owners I hope because my car was an ex dealership demo car it was one of the early models of the MK4 where the teething issues hadn't been ironed out yet, because I've never experienced so many issues with a car before in my life.  Before my Mk4 1.0 Ecoboost i had a MK3.5 1.5TDCI which was absolutely bulletproof and never had any issues in 30k miles over 3 years which was the reason i chose to go for a MK4

The only thing i miss about the Focus is the panoramic roof as it was gorgeous 😒

[Alex.S]

On 11/11/2022 at 8:32 PM, Connorfinn said:

finally decided to get rid of my 2018 Mk4 ST Line X 1.0 Ecoboost, personally I went through a turbo, (under warranty) and then a flywheel and clutch at my own expense due to knocking on cold starts. I completely lost all confidence in the car and as I needed more boot space ended up getting a Mazda 6 estate

Is the Mazda a hybrid? I’m going either hybrid or EV next. I might get shot down in flames for this but EVs 🧐 less things to go wrong 🧐 . And plug in hybrids, double as many things to go wrong ? 
How many miles had your mk4 focus done? I’m at 45k now… 69 plate, 1.5L petrol. 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

1 hour ago, Alex.S said:

Is the Mazda a hybrid? 

Not afaik. They seem to go their own way with lean burn "Skyactiv" engines. They have recently added a Mazda 2 hybrid to the range but that is a Toyota Yaris with a Mazda badge.

I've recently test driven Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic full hybrids and posted brief reviews on another thread which you may have seen:

On 11/10/2022 at 1:04 PM, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Vaguely back onto what I think the topic was................ 😀

Just back from an initial test drive of a Toyota Corolla, which I found very interesting, not having driven an FHEV previously.

Other than boot space, which looked a bit tight, but I have yet to check the actual figures, all the normal stuff - seat comfort, driving position, etc were fine and it seemed well screwed together with no rattles despite a fair amount of hard plastic.

 Seemed a bit strange on start up to press the button and .............nothing. Always starts off in electric mode apparently and during the drive I could tell the engine had cut in to recharge the battery more from a movement of the rev counter than any noise or vibration.

Good balance between ride and handling I felt - soft enough for comfort but still sufficiently firm to control roll on corners. Steering was light but accurate diving nicely into corners and the wheel itself felt good to handle.

Didn't really know what it would be like performance-wise, but it was pretty much as I'd expect from a car that size with 180 bhp or so (it gets a hike to 196 next year) and zipped along very smartly. (This was the 2.0, there is a 1.8 with currently 122 that I think goes to 140 for 2023). Weird not feeling any gear changes (manual or otherwise), though,  just a continuous flow. I guess a full EV would feel similar.

Not enough time this morning to delve more deeply into the various modes, etc, but a longer test drive is on offer so I may well take that up and see what you can fiddle with.

One thing I did resolve is that, other than the wheel sizes, there are no mechanical differences between the trim grades, so for example the "base" but very well equipped Icon is on 16" alloys, while at the other end the GR Sport gets 18s and some very nice sports seats but is still on the same suspension, unlike Ford's ST-Lines which are lower and firmer.

 

 

On 11/14/2022 at 12:20 PM, Eric Bloodaxe said:

So, been out for a run in the Civic this morning. Three grades - Elegance, Sport and Advance - no optional extras other than paint. Like the Corolla, the "base" (Elegance) model is very well equipped, also like the Corolla, the Sport gets more bolstered seats and 18" alloys, with no mechanical changes. Advance has pan sunroof, leather, etc, etc. All have the same 2.0 litre engine with a total system output around 180 bhp (again, no surprise, pretty near to the Corolla).

I went out in a Sport so 235/40x18 tyres. I picked my usual rough test roads to see how it would cope and the answer was very well indeed. In many ways the driving experience was eerily similar to the Corolla I drove last week, good ride/handling balance, good steering, excellent brakes, good turn of acceleration when needed. The Honda just felt that little bit "meatier" which is no bad thing from my point of view.

A crucial difference was the way the engine sounded and felt when it was running, because the Civic drives solely from the electric motor with the petrol engine just charging the battery, other than at very high speed when things lock up and the engine drives the car directly (didn't find out how high). Anyway, Honda have played some clever tricks with the software so the revs alter and it sounds to the driver like gearchange points in a normal auto. I thought it was a total gimmick when I read about it in various reviews, but have to confess it does work and makes it feel more "normal."

Interior ambience/quality was very impressive - it reminded me of the B6 series Audi A4 I had some years back, and a cut above the Corolla imo.

I mentioned that boot space was tight on the Corolla but not here - Civic has about 100 litres more.

Slight negatives for me:

- The PRND controls are by separate switches rather than a conventional auto type selector in the Corolla. Not sure how I'd get on with those as I have little feeling in my left hand (as regular readers of my ramblings will know) and find a chunky selector easier to use

- The car does feel quite big but that's usually something you settle into

- The centre console armrest seemed to get in my way a bit during enthusiastic wheel twirling and can't be slid back, as in some cars. Playing about with the seat/wheel position might address that.

And that's about it - very nice car indeed and I was very impressed with it (this from a lifetime fan of manual boxes!).

 

Can't comment from experience on reliability but both seem to get good reviews in that respect. I've noticed that virtually all my local taxi drivers have switched to Toyota hybrids which presumably testifies to their economy and reliability.

[Connorfinn]

2 hours ago, Alex.S said:

Is the Mazda a hybrid? I’m going either hybrid or EV next. I might get shot down in flames for this but EVs 🧐 less things to go wrong 🧐 . And plug in hybrids, double as many things to go wrong ? 
How many miles had your mk4 focus done? I’m at 45k now… 69 plate, 1.5L petrol. 

It only had 23k on the clock when i got rid, i had the turbo replaced at around 16k but it was the 1.0 ecoboost

 

Nope the mazda is a 2.0 petrol

Considering the size of the engine i still get 52-55mpg on a motorway run, 37 just pottering around the city

[Alex.S]

3 hours ago, Connorfinn said:

Considering the size of the engine i still get 52-55mpg on a motorway run, 37 just pottering around the city

I’m getting overall 34 mpg . Less than 400 miles from a full tank ! according to the car computer. Electricity is obviously going sky high but as long as it’s a bit cheaper than petrol …. I’m yet to drive an EV but the power out of these electric motors, the Hyundai Kona has 200bhp . Hyundai lead times are over a year now though I see some orders appear a lot earlier than others. 

[Connorfinn]

3 minutes ago, Alex.S said:

I’m getting overall 34 mpg . Less than 400 miles from a full tank ! according to the car computer. Electricity is obviously going sky high but as long as it’s a bit cheaper than petrol …. I’m yet to drive an EV but the power out of these electric motors, the Hyundai Kona has 200bhp . Hyundai lead times are over a year now though I see some orders appear a lot earlier than others. 

In My 1.0 Ecoboost if I was driving like a granny i could get 420 miles out of a full tank, purely motorway driving touching 500. So Far in my Mazda estate I've managed 450 miles on a full tank, granted it is a bigger tank by around 5 litres but still.

Good thing about Hyundai is the 5 year warranty that they offer, they are slowly getting their with their interior and build quality too so something like a Hyundai Kona or I30 seems to be a very good car at the minute

[Alex.S]

2 minutes ago, Connorfinn said:

In My 1.0 Ecoboost if I was driving like a granny i could get 420 miles out of a full tank, purely motorway driving touching 500. So Far in my Mazda estate I've managed 450 miles on a full tank, granted it is a bigger tank by around 5 litres but still.

Good thing about Hyundai is the 5 year warranty that they offer, they are slowly getting their with their interior and build quality too so something like a Hyundai Kona or I30 seems to be a very good car at the minute

I know nothing about warranty’s . Mines a lease car. I think Kia do a 7 year warranty. Same company as Hyundai. But to keep the super long warranty the car has to be dealership serviced every time. Does that sound right ? And do all manufacturers have the same strings attached? I’m new to this new car game.. 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

Toyotas warranty is interesting. Up to 10 years/100,000 miles if you keep servicing within the dealer network.

https://www.toyota.co.uk/owners/toyota-warranty

 

[iantt]

Manufacturers can't insist on there dealerships do the servicing. Warranties  stipulate that the services are done to manufacturers service schedules using o.e quality parts and oils at vat registered reputable garages. That's what Ive read anyway. 

[iantt]

5 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Toyotas warranty is interesting. Up to 10 years/100,000 miles if you keep servicing within the dealer network.

https://www.toyota.co.uk/owners/toyota-warranty

 

Interesting that originally the manufacturer's warranty was for 5 years. Now that's dropped to 3 years but additional warranty up to 10 years if serviced by dealer. 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

8 minutes ago, iantt said:

Interesting that originally the manufacturer's warranty was for 5 years. Now that's dropped to 3 years but additional warranty up to 10 years if serviced by dealer. 

Not been through the Ts & Cs with a fine-tooth comb (I would if I bought one!) but I assume it's intended to support the dealer network and keep customer contact, similar to Ford's service Activated Breakdown cover, though not all dealers participate in that as quite a few members on here have discovered too late.

[iantt]

I assumed the same. It changed June last year. Obviously to many owners were having car serviced elsewhere during the 5 year warranty. 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

I was just going to add that I like that they don't specifically exclude track days in the GR Yaris  from warranty:

"GR Yaris Track usage

What's covered

Using your GR Yaris for Track Days or similar events does not invalidate your vehicle's Warranty. Any potential failure to your GR Yaris during a Track Day or similar event are not specifically excluded and manufacturing defects within the Warranty period will be supported.

What's not covered

Toyota’s standard vehicle warranty does not cover: neglect, abuse or misuse. The use of non-approved performance enhancements and modifications would not represent a manufacturing defect and would not be supported under the terms of your Warranty."

 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

34 minutes ago, iantt said:

Manufacturers can't insist on there dealerships do the servicing. Warranties  stipulate that the services are done to manufacturers service schedules using o.e quality parts and oils at vat registered reputable garages. That's what Ive read anyway. 

I did spot somewhere on Toyotas site that during the initial (now 3 year) warranty you could have servicing done at a  reputable vat reg garage of your choice (subject to the above stipulations) and then switch to the Toyota network after year 3 and take advantage of the renewable warranty up to 10 years/100k.

 

[iantt]

Yeah, we weren't to deny warranty work if proof of correct servicing was done. But unoficailly there was allways a 3 week wait until we could get car in. So hopefully they tried else where. You lost money on warranty. 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

13 hours ago, iantt said:

You lost money on warranty. 

I guess manufacturers rates for warranty work must have dropped somewhat since I had any involvement in fleet buying (last century - it sounds like ancient history now, and I suppose it is!😀). 

At one time dealers were very keen to do warranty work and got quite upset when we started dealing directly with manufacturers and negotiated deals where our own workshops did PDI and some warranty work. Peace was restored when dealers we used got a small "retainer" per vehicle just in case they were needed for anything our workshops couldn't handle. They liked that as in effect it was money for nothing in most cases.

 

[Alex.S]

So, into the final year of my lease. No guarantees I’ll get another but hopeful.  I’ve been catching up on threads regarding the wet belt oil pump situation on here and other social media. I’m now at 55k miles. Would have seriously considered a mk4.5 auto MHEV, do we know if that particular engine suffers the same issue? We know lead times have been crazy but surprise surprise the dealership have stock! My feeling is Ford UK will have a keep it low key policy on this. It’s certainly never been mentioned to me and for the dealer to have stock was unusual even before the covid/microchip/war sh*tstorm. 

I need to get researching asap.
 

Lexus UX is a possibility 🧐 
 

[TomsFocus]

12 hours ago, Alex.S said:

So, into the final year of my lease. No guarantees I’ll get another but hopeful.  I’ve been catching up on threads regarding the wet belt oil pump situation on here and other social media. I’m now at 55k miles. Would have seriously considered a mk4.5 auto MHEV, do we know if that particular engine suffers the same issue? We know lead times have been crazy but surprise surprise the dealership have stock! My feeling is Ford UK will have a keep it low key policy on this. It’s certainly never been mentioned to me and for the dealer to have stock was unusual even before the covid/microchip/war sh*tstorm. 

I need to get researching asap.
 

Lexus UX is a possibility 🧐 
 

I have seen more than one chain driven EcoBoost with a failed oil pump belt online recently.  It is still very rare though and the earliest ones are now 5 years old. 

In your position, I'm not sure it's really anything to worry about.  The car won't be kept for more than 5 years, it'll be serviced at a main dealer at the correct intervals, and if it did break you're not liable for the cost anyway.

So the only consideration is whether you could manage the inconvenience of a breakdown and the onward travel if it did break at any point.  Though I will say again that that is very unlikely to occur within 5 years.

 

If the choice is between a Ford or a Lexus, I think I know which I'd prefer!    Though I've just checked and the AP is massive on the Lexus, £3-£4k depending on model.  Have you driven a CVT before?  Would definitely recommend trying one as you may prefer the fixed ratio auto-boxes which rules out things like Lexus and Toyota.

[Alex.S]

38 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Though I've just checked and the AP is massive on the Lexus, £3-£4k depending on model

Yeah they’re not cheap. The STLX 155 Auto you probably saw £1.5k down £100. The dealer having stock makes me suspicious! The Lexus does 50mpg I’m currently getting 33mpg. It’s the Lexus F Sport design I’m considering, sounds highish spec really it’s one up from base model. The finances , new car bonus £750 and good condition bonus I think is £400. So the focus is realistic, the Lexus I’d need to borrow almost £2k. 

[Alex.S]

Never driven a CVT. 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

I'm not sure if the Lexus has the exact same drivetrain as the Toyota Corolla? - that's recently been updated from 181 to 196ps.

As posted elsewhere, I drove the pre-update one last year and was quite impressed. I had visions of a CVT experience like the old DAFs but it was nothing like that, very smooth and controllable and ran in electric mode for a surprising amount of time.

I guess the Toyota C-HR is more similar in concept to the UX though. That still has the "old" drivetrain but is about to be replaced by the next generation with the newer set-up. 

Don't know if the Honda Civic is available as an option but if so might be worth a look - very impressed with the drivetrain in that and the car in general - just a bit bigger than I need nowadays.

[TomsFocus]

6 minutes ago, Alex.S said:

Yeah they’re not cheap. The STLX 155 Auto you probably saw £1.5k down £100. The dealer having stock makes me suspicious! The Lexus does 50mpg I’m currently getting 33mpg. It’s the Lexus F Sport design I’m considering, sounds highish spec really it’s one up from base model. The finances , new car bonus £750 and good condition bonus I think is £400. So the focus is realistic, the Lexus I’d need to borrow almost £2k. 

I'm not sure the 155ps STLX is particularly desirable with an auto-box.  So if the dealer ordered a few of them, they may struggle to sell them compared to manuals and cheaper/lower spec models.  Was the same with the Active, they were virtually impossible to shift new, especially in Vignale trim.  Doesn't mean it's a bad car, just means there's a niche market - it sounds like the ideal spec for you though so I wouldn't be suspicious about that.

[Alex.S]

Seems the Corolla has only 2 different engines over several different trims. A 1.8l or a 2L. It’s the 2L all the way. The CHR is more expensive has a 2L engine with 180bhp does 50mpg (possibly a different maybe older engine) as the Corolla 2L has 190ps and does 60mpg. 

[Alex.S]

To go from 360 miles full tank to between 6 and 700 would totally justify the AP 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

7 minutes ago, Alex.S said:

The CHR is more expensive has a 2L engine with 180bhp does 50mpg (possibly a different maybe older engine) as the Corolla 2L has 190ps and does 60mpg. 

Yes, that's right Alex.

The Corolla update for 2023 upped the power in the 2.0 from 181 to 193bhp, the 1.8 from 120 to 138 bhp. I tried the previous 181bhp 2.0 last year which went quite nicely so should be even better with 193!**

The more expensive (I guess you pay for the crossover styling!) C-HR Is still using the old 181bhp powertrain, it gets the upgraded version when the new model comes out next spring. It also gets the option of the 1.8 which is not available in the current generation, plus a PHEV version.

(**As an aside I did try quite hard to get a drive in the 2023 model but my local Toyota place seems to have the same lack of interest in actually selling cars as the nearby VW dealer, so the promised calls back never materialised. Perhaps I'll try again in a couple of years!😀)