Focus powershift automatics

[auldreekie]

I currently have a 2019 fiesta active 125 manual gearbox 4000mls.

In the next few months I'm hoping to change cars to a Focus estate 1.5 tdci automatic, even if I have to step down 2 or 3 years. Reason being I need bigger boot space, and new stupid road layouts by local council means more traffic hold up and aching left foot from riding the clutch in 1st or 2nd gear for long periods. 

I'm sure I read something a few years ago about powershift automatics had serious problem. Was this problem fixed by Ford and if so which year?

I'm considering focus estate 2016 onwards if it helps. Thanks

[DaveT70]

The powershifts in the Diesel MK3.5s are wet clutch and not so problematic (If at all).

The automatics in the MK4s ate 8 speed torque converter gearboxes (if you're thinking of stretching to an early MK4)

[auldreekie]

13 hours ago, DaveT70 said:

The powershifts in the Diesel MK3.5s are wet clutch and not so problematic (If at all).

The automatics in the MK4s ate 8 speed torque converter gearboxes (if you're thinking of stretching to an early MK4)

Is the torque converter auto's a better box? Smoother or rougher than powershift. I've never had a auto gearbox car before. Having said that I drove automatic buses for thirty years, different kettle of fish though. 😏

[kingfisher1967]

On 5/5/2021 at 10:47 PM, auldreekie said:

Is the torque converter auto's a better box? Smoother or rougher than powershift. I've never had a auto gearbox car before. Having said that I drove automatic buses for thirty years, different kettle of fish though. 😏

yes! I went from a Powershift to the new torque converter and its a massive improvement. The gear changes are smooth and you even get flappy paddles to play with.

I've been driving automatic cars since 1992, my first car had 3 gears, now I have 8!!

[auldreekie]

Paddles? 

Are they a sort of semi automatic you can use as alternative to fully automatic? 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

8 hours ago, auldreekie said:

Paddles? 

Are they a sort of semi automatic you can use as alternative to fully automatic? 

Most autos let you shift manually, either using the gear selector, paddles, or both.

Quite a useful guide here explaining the various features, including paddles:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/content/guides/how-to-drive-an-automatic-car

[auldreekie]

14 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Most autos let you shift manually, either using the gear selector, paddles, or both.

Quite a useful guide here explaining the various features, including paddles:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/content/guides/how-to-drive-an-automatic-car

Good article thanks. Sent it to the missus to read. 👍

[Botus]

powershift (AKA DSG - dual sequential gearbox) is two manual gearboxes and an automated clutch, it does it all without driver intervention - they need to have been built after July 2016 - all earlier ones are faulty.  If its working correctly they are mostly as refined and a slush box auto.  You occasionally notice the change in to first. 

autos with a TC drink fuel and there is absolutely no need for it these days....  but that's what they did https://gearsmagazine.com/magazine/fords-new-8-speed/  ludicrous, more expensive and less fuel efficient.  Few others are being so stupid.

a tractor is not suitable for short runs, if majority of journeys is 100 miles on motorways and then if you like killing people and animals, a tractor is acceptable

if its 5 miles to work and dropping off the kids, a petrol is far more suitable - cost wise it should be cheaper, you may not see it in fuel use, but the petrol will need less repairs and less time off road if u always do short trips

with the planet dying tractors will be banned from most city centres within two years and road tax will become prohibitively costly (its should already have been >£2000 for at least the last 5 years).  Paris, Madrid, and Hamburg have placed limited bans on diesel vehicles and apparently they were supposed to have been banned in Bristol two months ago - but currently bottled it and are waiting on air monitoring !!!

Auto, AC and cruise control essential on any vehicle (splash out and get active cruise u won't regret it)

[Eric Bloodaxe]

49 minutes ago, Botus said:

autos with a TC drink fuel and there is absolutely no need for it these days....  but that's what they did https://gearsmagazine.com/magazine/fords-new-8-speed/  ludicrous, more expensive and less fuel efficient.  Few others are being so stupid.

Looks as if BMW might be:

https://motorillustrated.com/bmw-dropping-dual-clutch-for-torque-converter-even-on-m-cars/68079/

It's often a bit of a Hobson's choice anyway. If you particularly want a certain car, you have to go with whatever box is available. Getting to the point now where you can't even choose between manual and auto.

 

[auldreekie]

Sorry its a long one.

A BMW would be nice, I've been looking at them having been in my son's beemer which I found a  comfy and smooth ride. Unfortunately out of my price range unless I go back around 8 years and get one with 87+ thousand miles on the clock.
I can maybe stretch to £13000 for a decent focus that would include a decent trade in on my current car 2019 fiesta with 4000 miles on it, mint condition and still under warranty.
As for my travels, mostly local, wife shopping which would not amount to a lot of miles. A round trip to my son's family up north 400 miles there and back + whatever driving I do up there. Short motorway drive then mainly on the A9 a mix of A roads & dual carriageway about 4 times a year.

My city like others have went overboard with cycle barriers, and other obstacles for cars buses and hgv without much thought to safety, it all results in horrendous hold ups in traffic everywhere, even on the outskirts.
Last week I was caught in one trying to get Out of the city, inching forward along a stretch about a mile in 1st gear is not pleasurable, constantly riding the clutch cannot be good for it, then other areas in and around the city 20 mph limits a lot of 2nd gear driving rarely in 3rd or 4th gear.
I took Cramp in my left foot while riding the clutch in this traffic queue and stalled the car. One of the few things that make me want to swap for automatic.

I've checked out electric cars but expensive and tiny then either leasing the battery at £60-£70 per month or buying outright, both expensive. Hybrid cars I'm not sure
yet on how these would perform on long journeys.
I'm currently on my 2nd fiesta but before then I had a diesel focus for 15 years which served me well until the fuel pump died, to repair it would cost more than the car was worth, so off to the big scrappy in the sky it went.😭 I have a hankering to go back to the focus again.
I've been retired for 11yrs but think it's time I had a wee bit luxury car wise.  My next car I want to last cos it might be my last car, I don't want to be driving when I'm 80 which is not that far away... I hope😊 Hence the reason I want to get my choice of auto gearbox right, gearbox oil change intervals etc would be religiously adhered to.

My days of climbing under cars has well passed 

 

[mjt]

40 minutes ago, auldreekie said:

As for my travels, mostly local, wife shopping

You must let me know where I can buy a new one . . .

 

40 minutes ago, auldreekie said:

My days of climbing under cars has well passed

Same here!

[Botus]

20 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Looks as if BMW might be:

https://motorillustrated.com/bmw-dropping-dual-clutch-for-torque-converter-even-on-m-cars/68079/

It's often a bit of a Hobson's choice anyway. If you particularly want a certain car, you have to go with whatever box is available. Getting to the point now where you can't even choose between manual and auto.

 

nice find, I agree you get what they built it with.  And on so many points it now means many vehicles you want are not suitable any more.  Pushing people on to other brands.  But the conventional auto bit in the link for BM is misleading as that headline is not the whole picture....

For many years the silly torque fest Germany are obsessed with, has meant NONE of their manual gearboxes (outside no cost restraint M cars) have been strong enough to cope.  All the big stuff have been on their 8 speed ZF auto box for years and years (to handle the torque).  And even that needs clarity.  ZF know what they are doing, and with GPS linked in since 2012 on the 8 speed auto they do 40 % fewer gear changes which helps offset the economy loss this box design naturally gives (and this box is a normal one the right way round - rear drive - with space to build it well and strong enough).

A DSG has big limitations with a fragile clutches, the shear design of two input shafts and the need for it all not to be a flywheel from hell means its only suitable for relatively low power output applications.  The first M cars with an auto clutch manual, where a convention clutch operated by a robot and it was slated as jerky and slow witted.  But this is more the fact when a driver does it himself he's slow witted and jerky but too thick to notice.  Yes on a 100bhp car, with so much designed in rubber mounted slop it takes someone really incompetent, that a passenger needs to point out they can't drive.  But get in anything manual with +200 bhp and drive hard, your passengers head is like a rag doll when you rip it.  Its just a driver knows its coming as he's doing it....

Hyundai stole a key guy from BMW M division and are busy building Focus RS beaters under the N sub brand umbrella, and have just developed their new box and its a DSG with wet clutches.  Runs cooler, smoother and better (like a motorbike clutch)

It sounds like the 8 speed ford one could be a nice box, just its very puzzling then want to spend all this money !  its probably why the accountants had to drop the proper rear suspension of nearly all of the Mk4's now

 

   

[Eric Bloodaxe]

9 minutes ago, Botus said:

Hyundai stole a key guy from BMW M division and are busy building Focus RS beaters under the N sub brand umbrella, and have just developed their new box and its a DSG with wet clutches.

Albert Biermann, yes. I had a go in an i30N a while back and was quite impressed. Unfortunately they now only sell the "Performance" version with 19" wheels and rubber band tyres, etc,  which might be ok at the 'Ring but I can't see it coping well with the roads I have to drive on.

 They seem to be pushing their 8 speed DCT quite strongly (the new Kona N is DCT only), so I wonder if they may drop manuals altogether if that becomes the popular choice.

[Botus]

23 hours ago, auldreekie said:

A BMW would be nice,
I can maybe stretch to £13000
my current car 2019 fiesta with 4000 miles on it, mint condition and still under warranty.
As for my travels, mostly local, wife shopping which would not amount to a lot of miles. A round trip to my son's family up north 400 miles there and back about 4 times a year.

My city like others have went overboard with cycle barriers, and other obstacles for cars buses and hgv... Cramp in my left foot while riding the clutch in this traffic queue and stalled the car.

One of the few things that make me want to swap for automatic.

I've checked out electric cars but expensive
I had a diesel focus for 15 years which served me well until the fuel pump died,

My days of climbing under cars has well passed

 

BMW 520d auto are much cheaper than you think - autocar just recco it last week - we found 2017 520d 70k miles £11995 - the five series is the first of the REAL BMWs, the 1, 2, 3, 4 are just ***** for kids (even with an M badge)... But you MUST get adaptive damping option which is quite rare, but essential and always leave in comfort, don't get anything with larger than 18" wheels... and adaptive cruise on BM was rare as hell.  I had it on one of mine, it was way better than Mercedes manage - mate had to wait 5 months for them to build his 2018 one with it, across the whole of the UK at the time there were NO others in UK with it.  It is now becoming more common, but when 1 out of 3 golfs has it from 2012 what the hell are the idiots doing.... !!!!

you must sell the car privately, every dealer will steal a minimum of 2k from your wallet REGARDLESS of how they pitch the deal !!!!!

only 4 long trips...with no DPF issues means the petrol driven sensibly will be a much better choice

Get cruise control at all costs... together with an auto it will take 75% of the stress out of modern driving....  both my last two cars have adaptive cruise... I use every single drive even if its only 3 miles... hit the fools and the council's fake road works and let a slightly dodgy German computer wobble behind stop start traffic...

Rent a focus for a few days 150 quid will save making a mistake, modern cars are far harder to see out off and park than they should be,,,,, and test the box you are thinking of buying

The council desire to ruin your life is in overdrive, they are working with governments to imprison us  - we should be rioting about the stuff they are doing (and yet so many halfwits just backed Boris the criminal, yet again!).  Local councillors should be competent, uncorrupted and being affiliated with a political party should mean you are unable to stand for council election.  We need them to do what's right in their community, not deliver the secret agenda of the corporations that run governments worldwide..

All cars should be an auto, a gearbox is only to work around the power unit being useless and inflexible its is not about masculinity or skills

Fiesta's back then had an old last forever tractor engine, not the fragile sensor and emission equipment infested unreliable car crash they design to die over the first 3 years.  Which is all they make now.

If I were you I'd be looking at a hyundia or toyota with a big warranty.... it'll drive well enough (not as fun) but should do 5 years more with zero maint issues and prob last 15 years vs European produced cars, which are now ALL last for almost 3 minute vehicles

Paying a German car worker 55k a year, means you have to sell lots and lots of vehicles.  So they started us off 10 years ago making them with a 5 to 7 year design life to get us in to leasing.  Now built them with a max 2 years life expectancy vs paying a Chinese slave 17p over 5 years.  Yes of course lots of the car will still be there in 10 years.... but every computer module will be about the 500 quid mark, and likely most will each be on its forth one by then.   My last car has 37 computers this one has 50,  do the maths, the accounts did starting out 15 plus years back....

62k for an hybrid transit !!! or lease for 300 a month - they know how to make us do what their profit margin needs....

 

[Guy Heaton]

😂 what's wrong with a 3 series?  I've always liked the more compact saloons.

[TomsFocus]

2 hours ago, Botus said:

All cars should be an auto, a gearbox is only to work around the power unit being useless and inflexible its is not about masculinity or skills

I disagree...  I hate the feeling of trying to restrain an auto while reversing into a tight space or edging forward in traffic.  Much more control from a clutch (or at least there was before emissions regs ruined slow speed mapping  ).

If I was designing my ideal gearbox, it'd have a clutch for 1st and reverse, then shift automatically in gears 2-6...   

[Eric Bloodaxe]

2 hours ago, Botus said:

All cars should be an auto, a gearbox is only to work around the power unit being useless and inflexible its is not about masculinity or skills

I'm not a big fan either, for similar reasons to Tom. But we are where we are on the emissions business, which I guess is why autos are becoming more or less compulsory (can't have a human mucking up our algorithms, can we?) and even the most skilled driver would have trouble constantly shuffling up and down an 8 or 9 speed box which seems to have become necessary nowadays.

What are we going to debate in a few years when we're driving single speed electrics, I wonder?😀

 

[auldreekie]

2 hours ago, Botus said:

BMW 520d auto are much cheaper than you think - autocar just recco it last week - we found 2017 520d 70k miles £11995 - the five series is the first of the REAL BMWs, the 1, 2, 3, 4 are just ***** for kids (even with an M badge)... But you MUST get adaptive damping option which is quite rare, but essential and always leave in comfort, don't get anything with larger than 18" wheels... and adaptive cruise on BM was rare as hell.  I had it on one of mine, it was way better than Mercedes manage - mate had to wait 5 months for them to build his 2018 one with it, across the whole of the UK at the time there were NO others in UK with it.  It is now becoming more common, but when 1 out of 3 golfs has it from 2012 what the hell are the idiots doing.... !!!!

you must sell the car privately, every dealer will steal a minimum of 2k from your wallet REGARDLESS of how they pitch the deal !!!!!

only 4 long trips...with no DPF issues means the petrol driven sensibly will be a much better choice

Get cruise control at all costs... together with an auto it will take 75% of the stress out of modern driving....  both my last two cars have adaptive cruise... I use every single drive even if its only 3 miles... hit the fools and the council's fake road works and let a slightly dodgy German computer wobble behind stop start traffic...

Rent a focus for a few days 150 quid will save making a mistake, modern cars are far harder to see out off and park than they should be,,,,, and test the box you are thinking of buying

The council desire to ruin your life is is overdrive, they are working with governments to imprison us  - we should be rioting about the stuff they are doing (and yet so many halfwits just backed Boris the criminal again!).  Local councillors should be competent, uncorrupted and being affiliated with a political party should mean you are unable to stand for council election.  We need them to do what's right in their community, not deliver the secret agenda of the corporations that run governments worldwide..

All cars should be an auto, a gearbox is only to work around the power unit being useless and inflexible its is not about masculinity or skills

Fiesta's back then had an old last forever tractor engine, not the fragile sensor and emission equipment infested unreliable car crash they design to die in 3 years, that they make now

If I were you I'd be looking at a hyundia or toyota with a big warranty.... it'll drive well enough (not as fun) but should do 5 years more with zero maint issues and prob last 15 years vs European produced cars, which are now ALL last for almost 3 minute vehicles

Paying a German car worker 55k a year, means you have to sell lots and lots of vehicles.  So they started us off 10 years ago making them with a 5 to 7 year design life to get us in to leasing.  Now built them with a max 2 years life expectancy vs paying a Chinese slave 17p over 5 years.  Yes of course lots of the car will still be there in 10 years.... but every computer module will be about the 500 quid mark and will likely be on its forth one by then.   My last car has 37 computer this one has 50,  do the maths the accounts did starting out 15 plus years back....

62k for an hybrid transit !!! or lease for 300 a month - they know how to make us do what their profit margin needs....

 

Unfortunately with BMW it wouldn't all fit in my driveway it would stick out onto the pavement, knowing the grasses around here someone would complain, Toyota Corolla would fit but their mostly hybrids nowadays, I need to read up more on them. wife is fond of corollas ,probably cause she passed her test in on 25yrs ago.

I think I'll probably hang out for 2018 focus titanium or X model maybe 150 petrol or diesel (not 100% sure yet) with a reasonable mileage, no problem with that in the driveway. 

 

[Botus]

2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

I disagree...  I hate the feeling of trying to restrain an auto while reversing into a tight space or edging forward in traffic.  Much more control from a clutch (or at least there was before emissions regs ruined slow speed mapping  ).

If I was designing my ideal gearbox, it'd have a clutch for 1st and reverse, then shift automatically in gears 2-6...   

there are occasions when it seems fun for a few minutes.... but sadly we shouldn't be driving like that on the roads and drivers we have today....  I've been doing a two weekly run on her 57 plate focus around 23:00 mid week to keep it going, (still both banned from the office for more than 14 months due to covid).  Her's is so stiff, the roads so bad, and my s500 such a tank with blancmange suspension, I struggle to keep it on the road, the Focus tries to float away on a few bumps even 20 under the limit.  And the steering input the tank needs makes the focus do a 360.  So I'm not enjoying the manual at all.   Need both hands and all the brain power to keep is on the road....

When it comes to bike's I'm with you - they need to be both full manual and full auto  .... this sort of does it https://rekluse.com/products/dirt-bike-products/  

 

jump in 3 mins