Ford Mk4 - central locking wires

[badameco]

hi.

Sorry my English as it's not the best...

In 1991 I bought my first car, a ford escort xr3i (mk4), I had it for 8 years, I "sold it" to my dad best friend who had a terrible crash with his xr3 (mk3) and almost died. My father died a few months later... Now, more than 20 years latter my dad best friend passed away and left me our xr3i.

After a few months it's getting presentable... at least the best I can and it just went to get a new paint. Anyhow... Just want to fit an alarm in it and connect it to central locking... the problem is just I simply can't find the close and open door wires and if I should connect + or - 12v (pulse) to them. 

Anyone can help me?

It's an Ford escort xr3i mk4 (1988) just been looking all over but simple can't find reliable info as some say - others + and others it simply can't be Donne...

Thanks

[Marineboy]

Hi

Firstly, I’m sorry for the loss of your dad and his best friend.  I’m not sure if you’re looking to find a wire who’s potential is either at 0V or 12V in order to signal to the alarm system for it to be able to arm (i.e. turn on) or something else.  If you are looking for an either a  voltage, or no voltage state when the doors are all shut, maybe look at taking a feed from the interior light somehow as a workaround.  Perhaps another member could interpret this differently and has some advice?  If you’re looking for Thatcham certification then I guess this is a lot more is involved.

[badameco]

Hi Marineboy.

Thanks, 

I'm looking for the correct wires to feed with 12v or 0v (I need that info also ...) so the door locks or unlocks with the alarm. All other functions are working.. i.e. the alarm arms, if door is open activates... closes windows... and turns fuel pump off etc...

My English its really poor.... lol

 

[Marineboy]

Hi Badameco
If I understand correctly, you are fitting an alarm system that's not factory equipment and is new to the car.  Given that, something's got to be the boss, so either the alarm tells the locking system what to do or the other way round, which would make more sense.  So, if it's the alarm that is armed on the receipt of a voltage (or the absence of one) from the locking system, I guess you'd have to find the appropriate pins on the plug of one of the door locks that go to the switch that closes within the door lock, when the lock is in a locked state.

I'm taking about what's shown as a switch in the example below at 5.41
 

If you wanted the alarm to arm only when ALL the doors, bonnet and boot were locked and you were doing the hard way, I suppose you would have to take all the feeds from all the locks' switches into a bunch of relays (and possibly diodes) maybe, so that you'd only get a +12V when all the lock switches were closed (crude multi input “AND” relay config).  Anything's doable but sometimes hard work even when you've got the info.  Stupid question, didn't this car have an alarm as standard?:

 

[unofix]

I may be able to help you. Back in 1988 and 1990 and 1992 I fitted a Moss Car alarm system to each of my Ford Orion's (not all at the same time). I also connected the alarm system up to the central locking system so that when you pressed the alarm keyfob it would automatically lock the doors and turn the alarm system on. The Moss Alarm system could not do the door locks directly and you had to buy a seperate door locking interface also sold by Moss Alarms.

I have somewhere the drawings and connections for the 3 cars that i fitted the Alarm and door locking system to. Give me a day or so and I will see if I can find them. The door locks have to be pulsed +12V for about 4 seconds to both lock and to unlock if I remember correctly.

[badameco]

11 minutes ago, unofix said:

I may be able to help you. Back in 1988 and 1990 and 1992 I fitted a Moss Car alarm system to each of my Ford Orion's (not all at the same time). I also connected the alarm system up to the central locking system so that when you pressed the alarm keyfob it would automatically lock the doors and turn the alarm system on. The Moss Alarm system could not do the door locks directly and you had to buy a seperate door locking interface also sold by Moss Alarms.

I have somewhere the drawings and connections for the 3 cars that i fitted the Alarm and door locking system to. Give me a day or so and I will see if I can find them. The door locks have to be pulsed +12V for about 4 seconds to both lock and to unlock if I remember correctly.

Great!

That's exactly what I need... that's the all idea press the alarm command and lock the car or press the unlock button of the alarm command and unlock it.

Thanks

[badameco]

2 hours ago, Marineboy said:

Hi Badameco
If I understand correctly, you are fitting an alarm system that's not factory equipment and is new to the car.  Given that, something's got to be the boss, so either the alarm tells the locking system what to do or the other way round, which would make more sense.  So, if it's the alarm that is armed on the receipt of a voltage (or the absence of one) from the locking system, I guess you'd have to find the appropriate pins on the plug of one of the door locks that go to the switch that closes within the door lock, when the lock is in a locked state.

I'm taking about what's shown as a switch in the example below at 5.41
 

If you wanted the alarm to arm only when ALL the doors, bonnet and boot were locked and you were doing the hard way, I suppose you would have to take all the feeds from all the locks' switches into a bunch of relays (and possibly diodes) maybe, so that you'd only get a +12V when all the lock switches were closed (crude multi input “AND” relay config).  Anything's doable but sometimes hard work even when you've got the info.  Stupid question, didn't this car have an alarm as standard?:

 

Thanks

[unofix]

Ok, so I have only been able to find the drawings for my last car which had both a factory fitted basic alarm and aloso an after market Moss alarm system. I built a special interface unit myself so that using the remote Alarm Keyfob of the Moss alarm system, it would lock the doors, turn on the Ford alarm, and turn on the Moss alarm.

I don't think that you will have a factory fitted ford alarm and so things will be more simple.

If the colours of your wires going to the drivers door lock are the same you will be able to work it out.

From the Ford central locking control unit there are 3 wires going to the locking motor. The common wire is Red/Yellow. The close wire is Yellow/Brown. The Open wire is White/Brown.

The alarm system that you are fitting needs to be able to pulse a relay (lock) for about 4 seconds when it is turned on. It also seeds to pulse a diffrent relay (open) when it is turned off.

I will post the pictures and then you can ask questions.

 

[iantt]

That brings back the days of being a moss professional alarm fitter then cobra professional alarm fitter. Back in the late 80's early 90's. 

[unofix]

Hi Ian, so you will be just the guy to give advice on this 😉. Back in the 80's and 90's I fitted quite a lot of Moss Alarms for friends and family, only ever had one that was faulty when I bought it. Moss insisted they send their own guy to check it out. He confirmed it faulty and replaced it, took him nearly two hours and I think he was a bit p***ed off

[iantt]

21 minutes ago, unofix said:

Hi Ian, so you will be just the guy to give advice on this 😉. Back in the 80's and 90's I fitted quite a lot of Moss Alarms for friends and family, only ever had one that was faulty when I bought it. Moss insisted they send their own guy to check it out. He confirmed it faulty and replaced it, took him nearly two hours and I think he was a bit p***ed off

 Crikey!! I've slept a few times since then. I fitted the moss professional  740a alarm to mainly Suzuki's in those days. So reliable if fitted properly. Suzuki were negative triggered. When Suzuki started fitting factory  imobilisers in the keys and alarms in late 90's , that was the end of alarm fitting service for us.not done any since. 

 

[badameco]

1 hour ago, unofix said:

Ok, so I have only been able to find the drawings for my last car which had both a factory fitted basic alarm and aloso an after market Moss alarm system. I built a special interface unit myself so that using the remote Alarm Keyfob of the Moss alarm system, it would lock the doors, turn on the Ford alarm, and turn on the Moss alarm.

I don't think that you will have a factory fitted ford alarm and so things will be more simple.

If the colours of your wires going to the drivers door lock are the same you will be able to work it out.

From the Ford central locking control unit there are 3 wires going to the locking motor. The common wire is Red/Yellow. The close wire is Yellow/Brown. The Open wire is White/Brown.

The alarm system that you are fitting needs to be able to pulse a relay (lock) for about 4 seconds when it is turned on. It also seeds to pulse a diffrent relay (open) when it is turned off.

I will post the pictures and then you can ask questions.

 

First of all Thanks a lot.

My escort has no original alarm (nor any for that matter) just checked and the central locking colors are exactly those... 

My alarm has 2 +12v signal wires... one gives +12v when alarm is turned on and other gives +12v when alarm is turned off...

I suppose I'll only have to connect the +12v to the Y/br (close) and the other +12v w/br (open) right?

The problem I see is that it does not deliver those 12v for 4 sec... what can I use to increase that time?

thanks.

[unofix]

you need some kind of relay interface.

The Red/Yellow wire needs to be cut and connected via relay contacts so that it can be switched to either the lock or open wire.  You might have to make something to do the job.

The Red/Yellow wire must never be connected to both the lock and open wires at the same time or it will damage the cetral locking unit.

 

[badameco]

5 minutes ago, unofix said:

you need some kind of relay interface.

The Red/Yellow wire needs to be cut and connected via relay contacts so that it can be switched to either the lock or open wire.  You might have to make something to do the job.

The Red/Yellow wire must never be connected to both the lock and open wires at the same time or it will damage the cetral locking unit.

 

The alarm unit has 2 different wires

one delivers +12v when alarm is turned on (3,5 seconds duration)

the other

delivers +12v when alarm is turned off (3,5 seconds duration)

One for each wire in the door... 

what I don't understand is why I need to cut the common

 

[unofix]

You need this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123820020437?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=123820020437&targetid=1279902197899&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=1006688&poi=&campaignid=12125450102&mkgroupid=123976368138&rlsatarget=pla-1279902197899&abcId=9300480&merchantid=6995734&gclid=CjwKCAjw_JuGBhBkEiwA1xmbRZcmNeLeR-9dxPBqrnxKKRwT1f_YrA6jvl9lCpBkti5Bp5pN84JohxoC_rgQAvD_BwE

You must NOT connect the wires from your alarm system direct to the central locking system or you will probably damage the alarm system or the car or both.

The output from the alarm system needs to switch a relay. Then the relay will operate the door locking/opening. You have to cut the common wire and connect it via both sets of relay contacts so that it can never be connected to the open and close wire at the same time.

[Marineboy]

Yeah, I thought there was some really specific stuff involved here.  Unofix, you da man, as they say. 😀  I’ve never been into the nitty gritty of car alarms and they look like a bit of a faff but I suppose they have to be, to be able to do what they do.  Best of luck Badameco.

[badameco]

All working now, thanks for all your help!