StephenFord Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Just read this article in Which magazine on the introduction of the new E10 unleaded fuel, where 10% of the petrol will now consist of Bioethanol. Apparently, all cars from 2011 are compatible, as are many produced before that. Is mine one of them? (2005 1.6 petrol Focus LX) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanC2 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 I cant vouch for its accuracy. https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-e10-petrol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted June 17, 2021 Author Share Posted June 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, AlanC2 said: I cant vouch for its accuracy. https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-e10-petrol Nice pointer, thanks, well if it is accurate, I'm just fine LOL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Bloodaxe Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Apparently the reduction in emissions is down to the CO2 absorbed by the plants grown to make the ethanol, rather than any direct reduction from the fuel itself. I have read of a slight loss of efficiency so we could see a small increase in fuel consumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said: the reduction in emissions is down to the CO2 absorbed by the plants grown to make the ethanol More smoke and mirrors! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimpster Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 So if the emissions come down so will road tax based on outputs ????????? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark-UK Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 Petrol stations will still sell E5 fuel for several years to come. Just as the change to unleaded, which took 15 years before leaded petrol was totally banded, they will tax E5 petrol a little more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JW1982 Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 Ethanol has an octane rating of RON 108.6. Adding Ethanol to petrol is a known way to increase the octane rating. E10 fuel with an octane rating of RON 95 consists of 90% Petrol with an octane rating of RON 93.48 and 10% Ethanol with an octane rating of RON 108.6. This basically means that the E10 fuel with an octane rating of RON 95 is based on lower octane (cheaper) petrol than regular RON 95 petrol without Ethanol. Ethanol is known to be very hygroscopic. This means that it absorbs water from the air. On the longer term water could form in the tank when using Ethanol-containing fuel. In countries where a lot of Ethanol-containing fuel is used this is a known problem (especially on vehicles that are not used regularly). Be aware that many E10 fuel types contain wet Ethanol. Wet Ethanol is Ethanol from which not all the water has been removed during the production process. Wet Ethanol consists of approximately 5% water. This makes wet Ethanol much cheaper to produce than dry Ethanol. A tank of 50 liters of wet Ethanol based E10 fuel contains approximately 0.25 liters of water. 1L of Ethanol contains less energy than 1L of petrol. This simply means that compared to regular RON 95 petrol the fuel consumption will increase when using E10 fuel with an octane rating of RON 95. I only drive approximately 4000 KM a Year and because of Covid last Year and this Year probably even less. I only use high octane (RON 98 or higher) petrol that contains a very low percentage of Ethanol. I simply do not want to risk problems that would possibly be caused by the (a bit cheaper) Ethanol containing fuel. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted June 18, 2021 Author Share Posted June 18, 2021 7 minutes ago, JW1982 said: Ethanol has an octane rating of RON 108.6. Adding Ethanol to petrol is a known way to increase the octane rating. E10 fuel with an octane rating of RON 95 consists of 90% Petrol with an octane rating of RON 93.48 and 10% Ethanol with an octane rating of RON 108.6. This basically means that the E10 fuel with an octane rating of RON 95 is based on lower octane (cheaper) petrol than regular RON 95 petrol without Ethanol. Ethanol is known to be very hygroscopic. This means that it absorbs water from the air. On the longer term water could form in the tank when using Ethanol-containing fuel. In countries where a lot of Ethanol-containing fuel is used this is a known problem (especially on vehicles that are not used regularly). Be aware that many E10 fuel types contain wet Ethanol. Wet Ethanol is Ethanol from which not all the water has been removed during the production process. Wet Ethanol consists of approximately 5% water. This makes wet Ethanol much cheaper to produce than dry Ethanol. A tank of 50 liters of wet Ethanol based E10 fuel contains approximately 0.25 liters of water. 1L of Ethanol contains less energy than 1L of petrol. This simply means that compared to regular RON 95 petrol the fuel consumption will increase when using E10 fuel with an octane rating of RON 95. I only drive approximately 4000 KM a Year and because of Covid last Year and this Year probably even less. I only use high octane (RON 98 or higher) petrol that contains a very low percentage of Ethanol. I simply do not want to risk problems that would possibly be caused by the (a bit cheaper) Ethanol containing fuel. Your posts are so often very educational, thank you, you've taught an old man alot more than he knew yesterday! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomsFocus Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 On 6/17/2021 at 2:20 PM, StephenFord said: Nice pointer, thanks, well if it is accurate, I'm just fine LOL I'm intrigued as to how Ford only made one single model in 30 years that isn't compliant... Anyone know what's special about that particular engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Bloodaxe Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 2 hours ago, TomsFocus said: I'm intrigued as to how Ford only made one single model in 30 years that isn't compliant... Anyone know what's special about that particular engine? Yeah, me too. Seems weird but that one engine crops up in all the look up tables I've seen on E10. I think it's the Mazda derived engine (as was the 2.0) but the only thing I've seen was that it got direct injection from 2003 - hardly an uncommon feature nowadays - unless it uses some seal or plastic part not common to other engines? I seem to remember an issue with plastic parts (butterflies) falling apart but would have thought that was common to both sizes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JW1982 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 The 1.8 SCI engine is indeed the only Ford engine within this decade that is officially declared to be not suitable for Ethanol containing fuel. The 1.8 SCI engine was basically a direct injected version of the regular 1.8 Duratec engine. This engine was primarily developed for better performance combined with a slightly improved fuel consumption. As part of this philosophy the 1.8 SCI did have fuel saving tyres and a specially designed Getrag 6-speed gearbox. The 1.8 SCI has never been a big success. This engine was only available for the Mondeo MK3 from 2003 to 2006 and was considerably more expensive than the regular 1.8 Duratec engine. The reason why the 1.8 SCI is officially declared to be not suitable for Ethanol containing fuel is the high pressure fuel pump. The body of the high pressure fuel pump is made of casted aluminium. When using fuel that contains Ethanol there will be a chemical reaction between the aluminium and the Ethanol which will cause excessive corrosion of the aluminium. On the short term particles of the corroded aluminium can clogg the fuel injector nozzles and on the longer term the high pressure fuel pump can fail (or even develop a leak) as a result of the excessive corrosion. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimpster Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 So when you do your regular filter changes, include all fuel filters. My previous Mk1 had running issues, fuel filter was full of water, not due to ethanol but obviously water/fuel dont mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JW1982 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 From the Focus MK2 onwards all petrol engines (except the MK3 RS) do no longer have a replaceable fuel filter. There is only a strainer at the intake of the fuel pump inside the fuel tank. Water will not be filtered/extracted out of the fuel in any way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark-UK Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 A reminder this is just an increase in the amount of ethanol in our fuel, petrol sold in the UK already has 5% ethanol in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JW1982 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 I do not know the UK regulations but in the Netherlands where I live (and also some other European countries) since October 2019 it is mandatory for petrol stations with more than one pump to offer E10 petrol at 50% of the pump. Petrol stations with only one pump do not have to offer E10 petrol. A petrol station with 8 Petrol pumps must offer E10 fuel at 4 of the petrol pumps and can offer any other petrol at the remaining 4 petrol pumps. Since E10 became mandatory petrol without or containing only a minimum percentage of Ethanol are still widely available. Next to the E10 fuel most petrol stations offer regular RON 95, RON 98 or RON 102 petrol without or containing a minimum percentage of Ethanol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted June 19, 2021 Author Share Posted June 19, 2021 1 hour ago, JW1982 said: I do not know the UK regulations but in the Netherlands where I live (and also some other European countries) since October 2019 it is mandatory for petrol stations with more than one pump to offer E10 petrol at 50% of the pump. Petrol stations with only one pump do not have to offer E10 petrol. So, is the introduction of E10 an EU directive, or up to individual countries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JW1982 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 As far as I am aware the introduction of E10 petrol and B7 diesel fuel is done by many countries to meet the EU Renewable Energy Directive, 2009/28/EG and EU Fuel Quality Directive,2009/30/EG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted June 19, 2021 Author Share Posted June 19, 2021 15 minutes ago, JW1982 said: As far as I am aware the introduction of E10 petrol and B7 diesel fuel is done by many countries to meet the EU Renewable Energy Directive, 2009/28/EG and EU Fuel Quality Directive,2009/30/EG. mmm... interesting, so in theory, with the UK no longer being in the EU, we could stick 2 fingers up at the introduction of E10 fuel! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Bloodaxe Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 1 hour ago, StephenFord said: mmm... interesting, so in theory, with the UK no longer being in the EU, we could stick 2 fingers up at the introduction of E10 fuel! I love your turn of phrase!😀 Probably we could now, but it seems very unlikely now that UK politicians would want to appear out of step with Europe on green issues: Why is E10 being introduced? Under the government’s Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation, 9.75% of all transport fuels must come from renewable sources, such as biofuels, by 2021. Fuel companies currently put 7% of biodiesel into diesel and 5% of bioethanol into unleaded petrol. The plan is to increase the amount of bioethanol in petrol to 10%. The aim of E10’s introduction is to help the government meet its climate change targets. Bioethanol absorbs carbon dioxide, and it is estimated that every vehicle that switches to E10 will produce 2% less greenhouse gases. Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said: "Although more and more motorists are driving electric vehicles, there are steps we can take to reduce emissions from the millions of vehicles already on our roads – the small switch to E10 petrol will help drivers across the country reduce the environmental impact of every journey, as we build back greener." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted June 19, 2021 Author Share Posted June 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, Eric Bloodaxe said: I love your turn of phrase!😀 Probably we could now, but it seems very unlikely now that UK politicians would want to appear out of step with Europe on green issues: That's why I said, 'in theory', I know that the government we have do not have the spine to go out on their now on issues like this. Besides, they only negotiated Brexit on behalf of England, Scotland and Wales, leaving Northern Ireland in the EU hoping no one would notice! (But that is a whole other thread LOL) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark-UK Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 Actual with the dumb government we have, I'd be very surprised if they did not stop this because it's an EU directive, let's be total truthful they are so fixated with shouting to their anti EU rhetoric, if the EU proposed a law saying all humans must breath air, the current government would ban the breathing of air as a sign of our " independent sovereignty" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted June 19, 2021 Author Share Posted June 19, 2021 33 minutes ago, Mark-UK said: Actual with the dumb government we have, I'd be very surprised if they did not stop this because it's an EU directive, let's be total truthful they are so fixated with shouting to their anti EU rhetoric, if the EU proposed a law saying all humans must breath air, the current government would ban the breathing of air as a sign of our " independent sovereignty" Always nice to hear the opinion of a 'remainer' LOL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark-UK Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 1 hour ago, StephenFord said: Always nice to hear the opinion of a 'remainer' LOL Well if a leaver can give me one solid positive I'm all ears. No you can not claim sovereignty or border control as the pandemic has clearly show that each EU country has set it's own rules, also we started the vaccine roll out in December whilst still in the transition period and still following EU rules, proving the "we couldn't do it in the EU" to be a total and utter lie. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFord Posted June 19, 2021 Author Share Posted June 19, 2021 32 minutes ago, Mark-UK said: "we couldn't do it in the EU" to be a total and utter lie. Surprised you didn't quote the 'bus' with £350 Million/week for the NHS, absolute total lie, it actually got an extra £420 Million/week last year, dam government! I'll not even mention the EU threatening to invoke Article 16 to totally overture the NI protocol over vaccine distribution (because the EU had screwed it up so badly!), darn, I just mentioned it 🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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