Battery Charging in situ in car.

[Micrexa]

Hi All,

This is my first post, so please advise if I am doing this all wrong!  My car is a 2015 Focus Zetec S Estate which I purchased from a Ford Dealer in February 2016 with  a very low mileage ex demo model owned from new by a Ford Manager.  I have been long retired so I only now mainly do infrequent short journeys; (under about 700 miles per year), exactly opposite to the high annual mileage I used to do as a service Engineer in the South East of England.  I am concerned that the car battery is not now getting a normal charge due to low car usage.   So my important question is, 'Can I charge the battery in situ and NOT fry the car's Electronics in the process!!?)  Some service centrers say 'Yes you can and not disconnect anything' whilst others say exactly the opposite, 'NO you absolutely cannot!!'  So me Totally Confused!  Please can anybody give me an absolutely correct answer; as I have been enquiring all over (including the internet) and getting nowhere!

Many thanks if someone out there can advise with the correct answer

Micrexa

 

[Aldridge Andy]

If you use something like a CTEK MX5 absolutely no problem charging your battery in situ. 

[Andyr55]

I use a Maypole charger in situ no problem. 
 

I attach the positive to battery and negative to earth point on car. 

[StephenFord]

18 minutes ago, Andyr55 said:

I use a Maypole charger in situ no problem. 
 

I attach the positive to battery and negative to earth point on car. 

Also big fan of the Maypole! Have connected a fly lead to mine so connecting charge is really quick... Like already stated, connect the -ve to the body, not like mine which is on the battery (I can do it because it's an old car with no BMS)

[Micrexa]

Thanks for the 3 replies to my battery charging query; I am from the 'old school' of car maintenance and stil feel uneasy about charging the battery in situ in car.  I certainly am not up to modern car Electronics.   I have a 10 yr old 'Ring' Smart Charger, (Model 'Smart Charge 8' RSC8 2 to 8 amp, a bit chunky compared to the 'mini' versions of today), and have checked its specs against latest smart chargers and it does everything they do. 

Question; why connect  the -ve charger lead to other earth point rather than directly to the battery -ve itself when charging?

Something completely different; I own from new an October 1972, 3000cc Ford Consul G.T. (stored), genuine mileage around only 45,000 only!  It has NOT been 'round the clock' !  I was told years ago, Ford (Dagenham) only produced around 120 of this model before it was uprated to the Granada S.  Can anybody tell me where I can find its today's true value?  Any info greatly appeciated.  I also own a 1992 Honda Civic 1.6i that I used mainly as my Driving School instruction car; but that's another story!!

'Micrexa'

[StephenFord]

1 hour ago, Micrexa said:

Thanks for the 3 replies to my battery charging query; I am from the 'old school' of car maintenance and stil feel uneasy about charging the battery in situ in car.  I certainly am not up to modern car Electronics.   I have a 10 yr old 'Ring' Smart Charger, (Model 'Smart Charge 8' RSC8 2 to 8 amp, a bit chunky compared to the 'mini' versions of today), and have checked its specs against latest smart chargers and it does everything they do. 

Question; why connect  the -ve charger lead to other earth point rather than directly to the battery -ve itself when charging?

 

Maybe you should pop into Halfords and buy a bottle of distilled water, then drill some holes into the 'sealed' battery cells to top them up LOL (I'm old school too)

Modern Focus (from Mk3 onward have a BMS (battery monitoring system) a little device about the size of an old box of matches attached to the -ve. If you charge directly off the battery, the BMS is bypassed hence the brains of your car will not know the battery has been charged. That's why I can connect directly as my car doesn't have a BMS, but yours does, so just attached the -ve battery charger to the big bolt in the wing beside the battery. Your existing charger sounds fine, (I used my original 70s charger on mine once) but to be honest, it's worth forking out £24 odd to get the latest 'smart' tech in the charger.

[Andyr55]

Couldn’t agree more. The maypole as mentioned above £22.69 on amazon. 

[StephenFord]

1 minute ago, Andyr55 said:

... The maypole as mentioned above £22.69 on Amazon. 

Although, if you have a conscience, never order anything from that insidious company!! LOL

[Luke4efc]

On 8/5/2021 at 6:11 PM, Micrexa said:

so I only now mainly do infrequent short journeys; (under about 700 miles per year),

Keeping the battery charged is only one of a few worries you should be having about short journeys. Your exhaust will be rotten in no time if you don't give it time to properly heat up and burn off the condensation. You'll also start getting condensation in the engine which will mix with the oil and emulsify (like what you see when the head gasket has blown). The fuel will turn to jelly and clogg up the injectors if you leave it in the tank too long. Perhaps don't brim the tank or add some stabiliser.

I bet the cost is working out around £1 a mile by the time you've paid for insurance, tax, MOT, servicing, fuel etc.

[StephenFord]

16 minutes ago, Luke4efc said:

I bet the cost is working out around £1 a mile by the time you've paid for insurance, tax, MOT, servicing, fuel etc.

I know to many, this doesn't make 'economical' sense, however my mum (in her 80s) is in a similar situation. Does very low mileage now, but the independence she gets from driving her own car is worth the price. She owns an 18 year old Toyota Yaris, which operates flawlessly, having to buy a battery car for her would be a nonsense...

[Eric Bloodaxe]

7 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

I know to many, this doesn't make 'economical' sense, however my mum (in her 80s) is in a similar situation. Does very low mileage now, but the independence she gets from driving her own car is worth the price. She owns an 18 year old Toyota Yaris, which operates flawlessly, having to buy a battery car for her would be a nonsense...

Similar story with my Mrs, who unfortunately does suffer from worsening rheumatoid arthritis as we were mentioning in another thread.

But on the original topic, I don't remember ever disconnecting a battery just to charge it, though I nowadays (in deference to smart charging, BMS etc) attach the negative to a suitable point on the body rather than direct to the battery negative terminal.

 

[Aldridge Andy]

4 hours ago, Micrexa said:

Thanks for the 3 replies to my battery charging query; I am from the 'old school' of car maintenance and stil feel uneasy about charging the battery in situ in car.  I certainly am not up to modern car Electronics.   I have a 10 yr old 'Ring' Smart Charger, (Model 'Smart Charge 8' RSC8 2 to 8 amp, a bit chunky compared to the 'mini' versions of today), and have checked its specs against latest smart chargers and it does everything they do. 

'Micrexa'

From someone who successfully used a Ring Smart Charger RSC4 for many years, I found it failed to “smart charge” AGM and EFB batteries fitted to modern cars and got rather warm. It never detected full charge and switched to maintenance charge mode. It’s still absolutely fine for Silver Calcium ( Ford fitment before stop/start and earlier ). Hence my move to CTEK but I appreciate they are a little more expensive.

[StephenFord]

6 minutes ago, Aldridge Andy said:

 Hence my move to CTEK but I appreciate they are a little more expensive.

I appreciate that many have deep pockets and will simply buy a CTEK, however, the Maypole does the same thing for a fraction of the price, and has a killer function CTEK does not have.

If you have a power cut, the CTEK will not come back to life unless you 'press a button', whereas the Maypole will automatically resume where it last was. Why is this a neat function? Well, if you leave your car on charge whilst away on holiday, and experience a power cut, with the CTEK you come home to a flat battery, with the Maypole, you don't...

[Aldridge Andy]

1 minute ago, StephenFord said:

I appreciate that many have deep pockets and will simply buy a CTEK, however, the Maypole does the same thing for much less dosh, and has a killer function CTEK does not have.

If you have a power cut, the CTEK will not come back to life unless you 'press a button', whereas the Maypole will automatically resume where it last was. Why is this a neat function? Well, if you leave your car on charge whilst away on holiday, and experience a power cut, with the CTEK you come home to a flat battery, with the Maypole, you don't...

Have to admit that I’ve not experienced this quirk. In my experience after a power cut ( and I only get around 1 a year ) charging just starts as if you’ve just switched the charger back on and goes through the usual check and charge sequence. This is on my BMW which is dry stored from October to March.

On my Fiesta I just connect, let it charge and then disconnect. 

[MarkRS9]

My ctek charger starts to charge again if power is lost and comes back again, no need to press any buttons. 

[StephenFord]

3 minutes ago, MarkRS9 said:

My ctek charger starts to charge again if power is lost and comes back again, no need to press any buttons. 

I stand corrected - my friends (£100+) CTEK, needs you to press a button. Annoying as we both live in rural areas where power cuts are normally monthly, and my last one lasted 7 hours!

[erictcleric]

Splashed out on a Noco charger for mine at the start of coronavirus doom and added a flylead connected to the battery positive terminal and body earth point. This makes it easy to set everything up - the flylead lives in the engine bay, so I just plug the charger into that when it needs a top-up. No need to use any tools or disconnect the battery, plus I can close the bonnet while it is charging.

[StephenFord]

54 minutes ago, erictcleric said:

... added a flylead connected to the battery positive terminal and body earth point. This makes it easy to set everything up - the flylead lives in the engine bay, so I just plug the charger into that when it needs a top-up. No need to use any tools or disconnect the battery, plus I can close the bonnet while it is charging.

Great idea, wish I'd have thought of that, oh, wait a minute... LOL

 

[erictcleric]

Great minds think alike. 

[Micrexa]

Again, thanks all for all your very helpful and interesting comments; up to the point when I posted my first message a few days ago I had no idea about latest types of car batteries and or modern car electronics!  e.g.  I had never even heard of BMS etc., etc..  however to catch up a bit I have been self teaching via the internet re that and other car maintenance abbreviations!  Ooooops!  Will have to give my age away now, (89th. year), that is why one reason I have not caught up with modern car design, I have had so much else to think about.  I still have most of my 'marbles' and still love fast cars.  Another e.g., in 1962 I bought a a 5 month old Mark III Zephyr 6, in my opinion the best standard car Ford ever built.  It really was built like a tank!  It's problem was that the 2.3 litre engine would not 'pull the skin off a rice pudding'.  A friend who worked in Ford engine development dept. at that time told me the first test engines were so powerful Ford's detuned the production versions.  I knew then as I was into 'souping up' engines that I would have a go at the Zephyr lump, hence the reason for buying one.  After much engine attention I tested the car via my Motor Club on an airfield main runway in the wilds of Essex, (the club had use of it on ocassional Sunday's) and it returned figures of 0 to 60mph in 6.7 secs. YES 6.7 secs. and went off the clock over 130 mph!!!!  If anyone is interested I can of course rememember what I did to the engine and one or two other mods!  I ran that car for 10 years including ocassional night car rallies and a couple of races!  The modded engine took all that with no problems.  I had no 'go faster' stripes or anything else externally to give the game away about it's perfprmance.  So had a lot of fun seeing off sports cars etc!

Back to the main point of my battery charge posts, I will try my aforementioned Ring Smart Charger, If it doesn't do what I expect I will of course purchase a new model.  Re.. StepenFord's comment on low mileage car problems, I might consider a stainless steel exhaust system and yes I do have the engine oil and filter changed more frequently than is normal.  Yes I am also very aware of the cost of low use motoring but need a car as I live on my own now and have to do all my own shopping and don't live close to supermarkets or other shops.

Apologies for the length of this post; will behave myself in any future posts!

 

[Eric Bloodaxe]

1 hour ago, Micrexa said:

in 1962 I bought a a 5 month old Mark III Zephyr 6, in my opinion the best standard car Ford ever built.  It really was built like a tank!  It's problem was that the 2.3 litre engine would not 'pull the skin off a rice pudding'. 

I was only 10 then but car-mad already and a relative had a Mk III followed later by a Mk IV Zodiak Executive which were a treat to be driven in. The Mk IV was a V6 but wasn't the straight six in the Mk III 2,553cc by then?

My relative was actually an engine driver, so a few years later I had the experience of driving a freight train, but that's another story!😀

1 hour ago, Micrexa said:

Apologies for the length of this post; will behave myself in any future posts

Wouldn't worry about that Rex, I'm sure you have lots of interesting stuff to share with us!

[Micrexa]

Wow; Driving a train Roger!  Love to had/have a go at that!

I very nearly purchased a CTEK Charger yesterday; but didn't as after reading online owners reviews on the model it seems some have been having ongoing problems with a persistently sticking 'mode' button I beleive it was.  Not only that it appears that no company was interested in solving the problem for these owners!  I can well do without that hassle.  Has anyone reading this post and owning one of these models had anything similiar?  It's a shame, as online Reviews give the CTEK excellent write ups.  I have not tried my aforementioned old 'Ring' Smart Charger as it is too chunky in situ to close the car bonnet; hence my interest in a possible new 'mini' model.  The 'Ring' is not shower proof and boy have we had some beefy, (global warming), rain/hail showers lately!

Thanks for any comments or advice re the above?

P.S. Re the Mk 111 Zephyr 6, yes the engine cc was more than I mentioned; I knew from my Ford employee friend that the straight 6 cyl. block had plenty of 'meat'  on it so I Bored it out to plus 60 thou, (and Honed it), I also made sure that it was bored to a minimun cylinder diameter knowing I would be running the engine in for 1000 miles.  I also bought oversize Piston Rings which I 'gapped' to a mininmum.  I remember the piston manufacturers were 'Hepolite'.  It was also possible to purchase Chrome Cylinder Liners made by a company called Chromard for many engines including the Zephyr.  I didn't want them as of course it brought the cylinder diameter back to Std.   I never worked out what the new cc was for the modded engine but I beleive it was close to 3 Litres!  

Must stop or I might get chucked off the Focus Forum for deviating!!!     

 

[StephenFord]

1 hour ago, Micrexa said:

 

I very nearly purchased a CTEK Charger yesterday;

 

Just curious, what puts you off the Maypole?

[pcaouolte]

I have the CTEK (I bought it before StephenFord recommended the Maypole 🙂 ). I've seen the reviews mentioning the sticking mode button but I haven't experienced the problem. We have 3 Ford cars in the family and they all use the same mode to charge, so I used the mode button once when I first got the charger several years ago and haven't touched it since. It might be a problem if you keep switching between car and bike batteries or if you want to use the battery refresh gimmick but I don't do that.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

8 hours ago, Micrexa said:

Must stop or I might get chucked off the Focus Forum for deviating!!!     

Lol the way some of us go round the houses before (occasionally) returning to the topic you should be ok!😀

I have a Ctek MX 5 - used frequently during the various lockdowns (hope we're done with all that) - no problems with mode button, but then, as Paul mentions above, set the mode when I first got it and have never needed to alter it, either.

Also have a Noco Genius 5, which seems to do as good a job and not read of any button problems with that.  It's been handy having two when both our cars needed a charge, but that said I didn't know of the Maypole back when I got those.