2007 Focus 1.6 petrol vs 1.8 tdci - buying advice needed

[Random Switch]

I'm looking at buying a used Focus and there are two near me that are within my budget.

The first is a 2007 100hp 1.6 petrol with 81,000 miles

The second is also 2007 with a 115hp  1.8 tdci engine and 142,000 miles 

The petrol is from a dealer so there is a little more protection if things go pear shaped.  The diesel is a private sale.

The diesel costs about 45 quid more.

I will be doing a mix of motorway and country backroad driving.  Some town/city centre driving but not as much as the motorway or backroads.

Which version would you go for and why?  Is there a noticeable noise difference with the 1.8 tdci? What would be the expected mpg realistically? Is there one model that is more reliable than the other? I've heard the diesels can be more problematic...  Would I see a notable difference in performance?  

[isetta]

The diesel will feel far more torquey to drive. Those petrol engines feel quite gutless especially on long hills where it’s slower and slower and no power for overtaking.The diesel will feel more agricultural. The 1.8tdci is quite old and unrefined but I like them. 1.8tdci does not have dpf so that’s good. It is true that the diesels can be more problematic if they go wrong. Buying a 2nd hand car you can be lucky or unlucky however much you check them over. Petrol will use more fuel but possibly less problems potentially but the 1.8tdci will feel a lot more powerful, it’s not  just about bhp, torque is relevant also. Diesel will give better mpg

[Random Switch]

Thanks for the feedback.  Would the difference in mileage be a concern? As the diesel has done a lot more miles would that have any bearing on fuel economy?  I've checked insurance quotes and there's not much in it - 2 pounds a month more for the diesel, and it has a lot of service history.  I'm not sure how much documented history comes with the petrol.  Both cars have a full year on the MOT.  for 795 vs 750 I'm tempted to go with the diesel as its more powerful yet still more economical, but I'm having to weigh that up against the fact its also done a LOT more miles so may need new suspension or the like a lot sooner than the petrol.

 

[isetta]

It’s impossible to say. If the higher mileage car did it all on motorway and the lower mileage car did it all on shorter journeys on twisty bumpy roads then the higher mileage car might be in no worse shape. Check if timing belt done. Petrol has one timing belt. Diesel more complicated. Early 1.8tdci had a chain from crankshaft to diesel pump and a belt from diesel pump to camshaft. Later ones had a wet belt in place of chain ie. two belts. The lower belt is a lot of work to replace .  I do not know what the year was when they changed from chain to belt. But if there is an invoice saying belt changed it might just have been top belt. I don’t know what mileage you are looking to do, if a lot, then perhaps the lower mileage might be wiser car to buy but like I said the mileage on the car does not tell you what use it had (type of roads, style of driving)

[DaveT70]

A diesel will be better suited to your commute, but 142,000 miles is a bit high, I reckon loads of stuff is going to start packing up with that much mileage.

How much are you looking to spend?

[Random Switch]

Hoping to get the car and a few months insurance and tax for around 1000.  Used car prices here in N. Ireland are considerably higher than in England

[DAN@ADRIAN FLUX]

Hi.

If you need any help with insurance then please feel free to drop me a line.

Regards,

Dan.

[FatHead1979]

On 9/21/2021 at 7:02 AM, isetta said:

It’s impossible to say. If the higher mileage car did it all on motorway and the lower mileage car did it all on shorter journeys on twisty bumpy roads then the higher mileage car might be in no worse shape. Check if timing belt done. Petrol has one timing belt. Diesel more complicated. Early 1.8tdci had a chain from crankshaft to diesel pump and a belt from diesel pump to camshaft. Later ones had a wet belt in place of chain ie. two belts. The lower belt is a lot of work to replace .  I do not know what the year was when they changed from chain to belt. But if there is an invoice saying belt changed it might just have been top belt. I don’t know what mileage you are looking to do, if a lot, then perhaps the lower mileage might be wiser car to buy but like I said the mileage on the car does not tell you what use it had (type of roads, style of driving)

Build dates 03/01/2008 and onward are when Ford screwed the bulletproof tank engine and swapped the lower chain for a wet belt.

 

My 2005 1.8 TDCi is still running well at 175K miles, in fact it's still on all it's original expensive bits i.e. turbo, high pressure fuel pump, clutch, DMF.  Having a cast iron head instead of aluminium makes the engine much more tolerant of abuse i.e. not changing the oil on schedule.  The only "large" job it's had done was a replacement gearbox, although I sourced a warrantied used box so it didn't cost anything like what it would have for a refurb/new box.

 

@DaveT70 The 1.8 TDCi (pre wet belt) will pretty much go forever, it's much more tolerant of not being serviced on schedule compared to the other engines in the range.  It DOES however sound like a 1980's tractor! 

[Tdci-Peter]

45 minutes ago, FatHead1979 said:

My 2005 1.8 TDCi is still running well at 175K miles,

My 2006 1.8TDCI was at 182k 2 weeks ago at MoT. And the engine is running absolutely sweet & smooth. It may have lost a couple of horses at the top end, possibly due to the inlet manifold getting a bit clogged with gunk. But it can still easily out accelerate most similar sized petrol engined cars. And has been delivering up to 53mpg over a tankfull, particularly useful at the moment! So I am very happy with it.

All the 10 MoTs since I bought it were Pass 1st time, though it has had loads of little faults needing to be repaired over that time. But only 3 items over £25: 2 front wheel bearings (£220ish each, garage price), an EGR actuator (£45) & just last week, 2 front shocks (£80 the pair, DIY). Almost all these items are common to the Focus range. Plus the inevitable service related items: tyres & oil, filters, Front disks & pads, & 2 cam belt changes, etc.

It may sound a bit tractor like from the outside, but has the advantage of pulling heavy loads like a tractor, while still being happy to accelerate to somewhere quite well past the 70 limit (should the need ever arise!). However I can't really hear the engine much inside the car, and I rather like that almost silent surge of power as the throttle is opened at the foot of a hill, just seeing the Turbo boost pressure go up on the display I have.

Petrol engines (Non-GTDI) have to be screaming away at high rpm to deliver anything like max power . These Turbo Diesels hit max torque at a rather modest 1800rpm, and so the power is much more usable in normal driving.

Ford's petty cost reduction exercise in the chain to belt swap was criminal. It may have saved Ford a couple of quid per car, but cost owners £50 to £150 in extra servicing costs every 7 to 10 years, and vastly more if it breaks early. There have been plenty of reports of lower belts breaking before 10 years. It runs hotter than the upper belt, and carries more horsepower, as it drives the 1500Bar Diesel pump.

[F0CUE]

Although the 1.6 may be gutless it's more reliable due to no turbo, Dpf or EGR to deal with but only around 30 odd mpg but it's a sigma/duratec engine. It all depends on what you need budget wise.

[isetta]

Focue, no dpf on 1.8tdci focus.

[FatHead1979]

6 hours ago, isetta said:

Focue, no dpf on 1.8tdci focus.

Plus the EGR can be easily blanked without throwing the EML.

[BigLen]

id go with the 1.8TDCI and blank the egr valve, 

however if you do choose the 1.6 petrol then you need to apply bathroom silicone to the underside of windscreen washer jets on the bonnet; apply it around them underneath the bonnet; because the seals deteriorate allowing rain water to drip inside the bonnet; this happens on all focus but it only affects the 1.6 Petrol model due to the positioning of the engine; the rain water drips on to the top of the engine and leaks in to the cavity of the crank case filling up around the coil packs and slowly decaying the engine from the inside out,,

guide to fix 1.6 petrol engine from rain water leaks here:

Focus Mk2 1.4 & 1.6 Petrol - Engine Water Leak Fix / Engine cover - Ford Focus Guides - Ford Owners Club - Ford Forums

trust me I've been on here since 2010, 

here's one very badly affected: 

Water In Plug Ports Issue, With Pictures - Ford Focus Club - Ford Owners Club - Ford Forumsthere's another highly detailed trying to find it now.... 

now regarding the diesel; The biggest concern in northern Ireland when buying a diesel is to be sure that its been run on the correct colour of diesel, alot of independent garages sell cheap diesel, bought cheap from the border as its laundered agricultural diesel from southern Ireland, Thankfully there's no dpf so that wont really be a problem, however the Sulphuric acid in laundered diesel deteriorates the fuel injector seals; so look for signs of black smoke on first start up after the vehicle has been sitting parked for a few hours, or signs of oil around the top of the engine,  just blank the EGR valve with a stainless steel plate and have the fuel filter changed for maximum economy, the 1.8TDCI best of luck. 

[Tdci-Peter]

I have an embarrassing confession, and am not a happy bunny! I know this is a bit off topic, but the OP has not been around since 22 Sep, so I hope he won't mind!

Also it is a bit of a lengthy story, so maybe try to bear with me. When I wrote "the engine is running absolutely sweet & smooth" I did think of adding "touch wood"!

I had to go to Corfe Mullen today (60 mile round trip) to deliver shopping & company to my better half's sister, who is still recovering from a broken leg (fibula & tibia, compound). Then next weekend I was planning to haul a heavy trailer up to North Dorset (another 60 miles round), followed by a 60 mile round trip to Dillington house for an event booked by SWMBO. She paid £28 for it and it is the first since pre-Covid, and we also promised a recently bereaved neighbour a lift, so is not optional! I had just under half a tank, which is a bit marginal even for my 1.8. Also I do not trust my fuel gauge. It usually reads high with 10l when showing almost empty, but I have been doing partial fills lately, & have no experience of how it will respond to that.

So on the way back from Corfe, I called in at Shell Bere Regis, to see if I could get a few more litres. There was one pump with no locks on, the VP one with a black nozzle, so I pulled up to the pump and stated to fill. Then I re-read the pump name plate, to my horror, it was VP Unleaded!. I had put in just 2.5l, so stopped instantly. I paid, then worked out I had between 25l and 33l of Diesel in the tank. I seemed to recall that up to 10% Petrol in Diesel was not too bad, plus there was not much alternative: Even if the tank was drained, would I be able to get it re-filled? So I drove the 18 miles back home, with an unusually light right foot. There were no unusual symptoms at all.

When I got home I Googled Petrol in Diesel, and got mixed results. One source said 10% was fine, but most said the lubricity would be badly reduced, with long term damage to fuel pump & injectors, which I find possible (just) to believe.

To cap it, as soon as I got home, I heard reports that the fuel crisis was largely over, and a friend had managed to get a complete fill today (incidentally reducing the need to haul the heavy trailer, as he can also do that!) So I have saddled myself with a load of worry and an expense between £30 (to dump my contaminated fuel) and £2000 (to replace pump & injectors) for nothing. Great!

Anyway my plan is to siphon out the stuff in my tank, and re-fill from the local garage if they have stock this week. It is less than a mile away, I could even carry a 10l can back from it if I felt it would help, though having done 18 miles already I doubt if that would make any difference. What's done is done!

I am not really after advice, or even false comfort. Have a bit of a (slightly sympathetic?)  laugh if you like. Unless someone has had a very similar experience with the same engine, there is no telling how it will respond. It just helps a bit to share the experience!

 

 

[FatHead1979]

If I did that in mine, given it's age I'd probably just say f**k it, brim the tank and keep topping it up once I'd used a quarter tank to keep diluting the petrol concentration 😁

 

For what it's worth mate, I really wouldn't worry about it.

[F0CUE]

1 hour ago, Tdci-Peter said:

I have an embarrassing confession, and am not a happy bunny! I know this is a bit off topic, but the OP has not been around since 22 Sep, so I hope he won't mind!

Also it is a bit of a lengthy story, so maybe try to bear with me. When I wrote "the engine is running absolutely sweet & smooth" I did think of adding "touch wood"!

I had to go to Corfe Mullen today (60 mile round trip) to deliver shopping & company to my better half's sister, who is still recovering from a broken leg (fibula & tibia, compound). Then next weekend I was planning to haul a heavy trailer up to North Dorset (another 60 miles round), followed by a 60 mile round trip to Dillington house for an event booked by SWMBO. She paid £28 for it and it is the first since pre-Covid, and we also promised a recently bereaved neighbour a lift, so is not optional! I had just under half a tank, which is a bit marginal even for my 1.8. Also I do not trust my fuel gauge. It usually reads high with 10l when showing almost empty, but I have been doing partial fills lately, & have no experience of how it will respond to that.

So on the way back from Corfe, I called in at Shell Bere Regis, to see if I could get a few more litres. There was one pump with no locks on, the VP one with a black nozzle, so I pulled up to the pump and stated to fill. Then I re-read the pump name plate, to my horror, it was VP Unleaded!. I had put in just 2.5l, so stopped instantly. I paid, then worked out I had between 25l and 33l of Diesel in the tank. I seemed to recall that up to 10% Petrol in Diesel was not too bad, plus there was not much alternative: Even if the tank was drained, would I be able to get it re-filled? So I drove the 18 miles back home, with an unusually light right foot. There were no unusual symptoms at all.

When I got home I Googled Petrol in Diesel, and got mixed results. One source said 10% was fine, but most said the lubricity would be badly reduced, with long term damage to fuel pump & injectors, which I find possible (just) to believe.

To cap it, as soon as I got home, I heard reports that the fuel crisis was largely over, and a friend had managed to get a complete fill today (incidentally reducing the need to haul the heavy trailer, as he can also do that!) So I have saddled myself with a load of worry and an expense between £30 (to dump my contaminated fuel) and £2000 (to replace pump & injectors) for nothing. Great!

Anyway my plan is to siphon out the stuff in my tank, and re-fill from the local garage if they have stock this week. It is less than a mile away, I could even carry a 10l can back from it if I felt it would help, though having done 18 miles already I doubt if that would make any difference. What's done is done!

I am not really after advice, or even false comfort. Have a bit of a (slightly sympathetic?)  laugh if you like. Unless someone has had a very similar experience with the same engine, there is no telling how it will respond. It just helps a bit to share the experience!

 

 

Yes I would keep topping it with diesel and hope for the best. If it had the capless easy fuel tank it wouldn't of been possible. I think it would of been worse if you had a petrol car and filled with diesel.

[TomsFocus]

You shouldn't be able to get a diesel nozzle into a petrol car, even without EasyFuel the petrol filler neck is usually smaller.   (Unless you're using a gerry can ofc!)

2.5 litres will be fine unless something was already on it's last legs.  I wouldn't bother draining it for such a small amount personally, would just brim it with diesel as soon as you can.

I've drained a few petrol in diesel misfuels.  Memorable ones include one full tank on a week old car that hadn't been started...one full tank on a 15 year old car that was started but cut out leaving the forecourt, and one half tank that the owner had brought in for a slow start, 2 weeks after having misfuelled totally unknowingly!!  All 3 were absolutely fine afterwards.  The half tank was surprising though, the only noticeable issue was that it would crank over several times before firing...the owner had done hundreds of miles on a half petrol/half diesel mix!!   One of the experienced techs sniffed the filler cap and instantly suggested it smelt of petrol so we started a detective mission going through all the fuel VAT receipts in the cab to find one with a 'p' rather than a 'd' on it.  

In other news...why are Shell making any petrol pumps black!?   I bet you're not the first to have made that mistake!!

[Janner7859]

I have a 2007 1.6 petrol hatchback, and I don't find it gutless. I suppose it depends what you are comparing it to. I've had it for two years now, and I haven't had any mechanical problems at all (touch wood). I've had a leak in the boot, which turned out to be coming in around the rear lights and through the rear spoiler, all sorted now. 😊 It's now done 71k miles, just gone through it's third MOT since I've had it, and in my opinion it's a great car with enough power to get me where I'm going.

[Tdci-Peter]

On 10/4/2021 at 9:06 AM, TomsFocus said:

2.5 litres will be fine unless something was already on it's last legs.

I was never going to be happy with the known 7% contamination! My pump has lasted 15 years and 180k miles, so it may well be nearing its last legs. I have lasted quite a lot longer, and many more miles, so it will be a bit of a contest to see which pegs out 1st!

So yesterday I drained out the fuel: I could not get a tube in the tank, so I disconnected the fuel return pipe in the engine bay, and syphoned it via that. Slow, but worked well after I sorted out the leaks in the syphon system. 30l came out. Anyone want 30l of best quality Diesel (only slightly contaminated)?. Going Cheep!

I put in 10l from a tin, crossed all my fingers & started the car, it fired up just as normal. I filled the tank right up (our local garage now has some fuel, and even let me have two transactions to bypass their £35 preset limit). Then took it on a test run up a local hill, with Forscan logging FRP etc. It all looked fine. So it seems you were right, and the doom-mongers elsewhere on the net were wrong, But I am still happier with the bad fuel out. I might feed some of it back in very slowly, keeping the petrol below about 1%, where it should have no effect whatsoever.

The sniff test you mentioned does work well. 7% petrol smells quite strongly of petrol when in a closed container. With spillage or a bit on a rag the petrol smell is harder to detect.