Youtube video footage - Who would be at fault here if the car had hit the motorcyclist ?

[Ian Lanc]

What's your thoughts on this clip ? Who is in the wrong here Driver or Motorcyclist ?
 

[unofix]

It would be fair to say that there is an argument to be had that both had a degree of shall we say 'bad judgment'

The car driver clearly starts to move forward and possibly crosses the stop line (can't tell from the video) BEFORE the lights change to green. Even with a green light the situation is that you may only move if the way is 'clear' and it is 'safe to do so'. It could be said that the car jumped the lights and had not fully checked that it was safe to move.

The motorcyclist (and I'm reluctant to call them that) is clearly in the wrong position on the road. Passing a vehicle on the offside to then immediately cut in front and turn left across its path is extremely dangerous and stupid not to mention illegal. Again the motorcyclist may have also jumped the lights but might just have crossed the stop line at the moment the lights turned green.

I'm by know means an expert in these matters so this in only my opinion. If I was making a judgement on this case in the event of an accident I would rule that the car driver was at fault 20% for the above reasons, and likewise the motorcycle rider was at fault 80%.

There will now follow a few hundred other views and opinions  on the situation 🤣

[DaveT70]

Bike.

If you want to turn left, you should be positioned on the left.

[Ian Lanc]

1 hour ago, unofix said:

The car driver clearly starts to move forward and possibly crosses the stop line (can't tell from the video) BEFORE the lights change to green. Even with a green light the situation is that you may only move if the way is 'clear' and it is 'safe to do so'. It could be said that the car jumped the lights and had not fully checked that it was safe to move.

There's another set of lights on the otherside of the road, in front of the stone building.

[Ian Lanc]

The reason for this post/thread is because of one reply on that video........

'''''The scooter rider might have come in a bit hot but he was legally filtering traffic you have a legal responsibility to check your mirrors and a shoulder check before pulling off so most likely if a collision happened you would have been found driving with out due care and attention''''

In my mind the motorcyclist is truly in the wrong here! I might even contact a local motorcycle training organisation over this.

[alexp999]

As with most if not all driving incidents, it's not black and white, not possible to 100% blame one party. There is often something both sides could do better.

No doubt that like unofix says, the bike rider is predominantly in the wrong here and the insurance would almost certainly have apportioned blame to them, but in terms of what each individual could do. The car should be checking around before moving off and be always aware of what is going on around, for this very reason, to be on the look out for stupid people like this bike rider. I always try and check for a biker trying to stupidly overtake before I am turning right in to a side road for example.

TL;DR the bike would be to blame, but the car should still be checking and constantly aware of their surroundings to be able to make allowances for others incompetence.

That doesn't give people the right to exploit others accomodating them, but in the interest of reducing indicents, it's better to yield than crash.

[erictcleric]

Substitute "motorcycle" with "car". Would you expect a car to overtake you on the right to turn left? The rules for cars and motorcycles are the same, so there's no excuse for that positioning unless he wanted to turn right. 

[Frembrit]

I ride a bike on a full licence (for 13 years), though many years less than I have been driving. To me the biker in this video is not competent enough to gain the L plate. To me, he seemed to be filtering at speed and the lights changed as he approached the line, fine if he was going straight on but to cut across like that is dangerous and something I would not do. If I have any inkling that the light is about to change and I want to turn left then I will wait in line or pull in behind, but I would have filtered slowly to enable me to do that.

I'm much more vulnerable on the bike and I would take more care at junctions.....still doesn't stop 2 drivers and  a cyclist! from knocking me off though. Both cars pulled out in front of me (junction and small roundabout, both didn't see me despite headlight and high viz jacket) and the cyclist was going full chat on the pavement crossing a dropped kerb in to my work carpark, but was hidden by a van queueing in traffic as I turned in, I didn't even realise he was on the pavement until I watched my camera video back,  grrrr

[TomsFocus]

The problem here is the wording of rights and laws...

Common sense tells us the biker is clearly at fault but in reality the car would get at least some of the blame because it's bigger, heavier, safer etc...  

Bikers, cyclists and pedestrians all seem to forget that visibility to the sides and rear of most cars is poor, let alone vans etc.  They need to take more responsibility for thier own safety instead of just expecting everyone else to be able see them all the time.  

[unofix]

5 hours ago, Ian Lanc said:

There's another set of lights on the otherside of the road, in front of the stone building

Hi Ian, yes I can see the other set of lights, but what I can't see is the solid white stop line on the road that the car has presumably stopped behind. On a technicality if the car was just starting to move forward in anticipation of the lights changing to green then no offense regarding the traffic lights has been committed.  However, and it is a big however if the front of the car crosses the stop line (and it just has to be the bodywork, not the wheels) then there has been a traffic offense committed by the car driver because they crossed the line before the green light. In the eyes of the law it does not matter whether the car was 6 inches or 6 feet over the line it is still a traffic offense.

All that said, I think we can all agree that the motorcyclist is an idiot, and was lucky not to have been involved in a serious accident. The speed at which he must have approached the traffic lights gives a clear insight to the fact they could not have stopped if the lights had taken even just a couple more seconds to change, and therefore it would be reasonable to assume they would have ran the red light regardless.

 

[Ian Lanc]

4 hours ago, unofix said:

Hi Ian, yes I can see the other set of lights, but what I can't see is the solid white stop line on the road that the car has presumably stopped behind.

Found the stop line at those lights, shame the line can't be seen in the video clip.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.1645672,-1.1869518,3a,75y,300.77h,69.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1xH8nTjAP9DrOUaDpwnerA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0

The reason for the bee in my bonnet so to speak is because that 'cookiemonster' who has replied on that clip once gave me right abuse and used to post on my youtube page, he's a taxi driver and his anger and abuse at other drivers is unreal, to the point he shouldn't be driving.

[billyboy]

Definitely the motor cyclist, he is technically overtaking at the lights and cutting in.

[isetta]

Where I live it’s a nightmare driving in town because there are motor scooters deliveroo ubereats etc etc buzzing all around you and riding worse than in that video. When I was 16 I rode stupidly. When I started driving a car I started to ride my motorcycle more sensibly. Until a rider see this stupidity from the driving seat of a car I don’t think riders realise how stupid they are. I still ride a motorbike and in my opinion think I do it sensibly.  But every driver and rider thinks they do it sensibly.