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Mk4 negative for charging


jmkgreen
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12 minutes ago, unofix said:

Hello Ivo,

Just want to make sure we are all talking about the same thing.

BCM = Body Control Module ... Looks after things like lights, wipers, screenwash, locking, and much more.

BMS = Battery Monitor System ... checks on the amount of current going in to, or, out of the battery.

So as far as I know the issue of the SOC being set to 80% (at least in the UK) does also apply to the Mk3. As regards to what size of battery is set, I don't know for the Mk3. We have established on the Focus Mk4 that adjusting the SOC does not alter the size of the battery set. So it seems that this is not something that is automatically calculated, but is in fact a parameter that has to be manually changed, and is independent to the setting of the SOC. 

First of all , thank you for your fast response to my doubt...

So it's important to set the SOC first to 90 or 95% then change the battery size ? 

I will try to see if the battery size issue also exists in the mk3 and report here.

and also i will see if this SOC issue happens in other countries as well (since i live in portugal) 

 

Thanks again,

Ivo

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16 hours ago, unofix said:

This method should work, if not then maybe there is a problem with the BMS

 

Interestingly, that doesn’t work on mine…alternatively it does when ignition is on, flash high beams five times, press brake three times. For a Mk4 Focus. 

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2 hours ago, Buxty said:

Interestingly, that doesn’t work on mine…alternatively it does when ignition is on, flash high beams five times, press brake three times. For a Mk4 Focus. 

Yet it didn't work for me. No matter, I reset the BMS using Forscan in the end.

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18 hours ago, Ivo Fidalgo said:

First of all , thank you for your fast response to my doubt...

So it's important to set the SOC first to 90 or 95% then change the battery size ? 

I will try to see if the battery size issue also exists in the mk3 and report here.

and also i will see if this SOC issue happens in other countries as well (since i live in portugal) 

 

Thanks again,

Ivo

I've been doing a bit of background research (see this thread ) and I'm wondering if battery size, then try it and see, might be an option. The interesting one on one of Varta's pages is the State-Of-Charge chart. Though doing both hand-in-hand would seem to be logical.

)

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Bit of an update, not much but may as well post it seems as I've spent the time and effort this morning 😀

SOC has now risen from 51% ( 3 weeks ago) to 68%. It was showing 12.2v with only ignition on via forscan and 14.6v with engine ticking over.

Whether this slight jump in SOC is down to amending the battery size last week I can't be 100% sure as I didn't have the exact figures at the time. But what I do know is that when the car went for its recall it was definitely at 51% so is it a coincidence that its jumped to 68% without any further substantial mileage added or is it down to the fact the battery size has been amended. 

Will check it again in a weeks time to perhaps clarify.

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On 1/9/2022 at 5:48 PM, RMurphy195 said:

I've been doing a bit of background research (see this thread ) and I'm wondering if battery size, then try it and see, might be an option. The interesting one on one of Varta's pages is the State-Of-Charge chart. Though doing both hand-in-hand would seem to be logical.

)

I saw your post and it makes me wonder if ford is overproviding on amperage just to extend the battery life cycle.... in order to last at least to the end of warranty 

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21 hours ago, Wino said:

Bit of an update, not much but may as well post it seems as I've spent the time and effort this morning 😀

SOC has now risen from 51% ( 3 weeks ago) to 68%. It was showing 12.2v with only ignition on via forscan and 14.6v with engine ticking over.

Whether this slight jump in SOC is down to amending the battery size last week I can't be 100% sure as I didn't have the exact figures at the time. But what I do know is that when the car went for its recall it was definitely at 51% so is it a coincidence that its jumped to 68% without any further substantial mileage added or is it down to the fact the battery size has been amended. 

Will check it again in a weeks time to perhaps clarify.

I suspect the battery size figures in the %age calculation somewhere so changing it will change the result. Though not having the algorithm to hand, who can tell! Having said that, putting 26 gallonsinto a 52 gallon water tank would give a 50% fill, but telling the calulation that the water tank is 70 gallons would give a smaller %age. Things must be more complex than my poor brain will - or can be bothered to - grasp.

 

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SOC is calculated purely from the battery voltage when its 'at rest' i.e a couple of hours after ignition off.  The battery size wont directly affect the SOC but what it will do is change the charging parameters of the BMS. With a smaller than actual battery capacity, the charging system will expect the target SOC to be achieved quicker than it actually is and thus maybe not charge for long enough. Although you would expect any half decent system to eventually adjust itself to maintain the correct SOC.

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This thread is getting very complex just like the battery issue! I changed my SOC target to 90% several weeks ago and am very happy with the improved experience. You must bear in mind, as others have said, that the Stop/Start will only work when several conditions are correct, not just SOC. If the engine is cold, or the heated seats are on, or other current drawing things are on, it will not work. I mainly changed mine for the heated screen as this is another casualty of the low SOC, so in frosty weather the screen would not clear because SOC was too low. Changing the SOC to 90% resolves that, so I am happy. I always thought I had an EFB battery but FORSCAN reported an AGM battery so I looked at the battery and lo and behold it is an AGM, exactly as FORSCAN said.

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Think you will find that the Stop start does actually work when the engine is cold and the Heated screens will both work providing the engine is running regardless of SOC. Mine has worked everytime even when SOC was 50%.

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3 hours ago, Wino said:

Think you will find that the Stop start does actually work when the engine is cold and the Heated screens will both work providing the engine is running regardless of SOC. Mine has worked everytime even when SOC was 50%.

No they don't

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4 minutes ago, Paulius55 said:

No they don't

What doesn't ? 

My stop start works within half a mile so yes that does work when the engine is cold.

As for the heated screens both front and rear they will/ should work properly providing the engine is running and I know for a fact they both work on mine even with the SOC as low as 50%. 

If yours doesn't then something is wrong.

On a normal working week our car struggles to get past 15 miles a week and even in the winter so far nothing has failed to work including having the heated screens on and the heated seat to travel 1.6 miles to work on a freezing cold morning.

 

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Know we're talking about focus here , but my Mk5 Mondeo stop start works after 2-3 mins from cold. Heated screens work every time regardless .or should I say they do now after replacing my battery 2 years ago . And with the wrong battery type( I know I should know better) I'm to tight to buy an AGM . 

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I have to agree with @Paulius55 . I have a Focus 2019 2.0 diesel automatic. Now I hate Stop/Start and so was very happy when it didn't work which was most of the time. On the other hand I was less than happy when the keyless locking on the rear and passenger doors was disabled due to low SOC. I was totally amazed to find that on the same day my heated front screen was also not working (not a big deal as it was only to clear a light mist on the screen).

So as many here will know I changed my SOC to 95% and all was well. Actually that's not true because once I had driven about 5 miles the bl00dy S/S system would work. One step forward and two steps back. I can say that the S/S system would never work until the engine had started to warm. On the plus side now that I have fitted the little gizmo that turns the S/S off then I'm happy again.

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On 1/10/2022 at 12:32 PM, Wino said:

But what I do know is that when the car went for its recall it was definitely at 51% so is it a coincidence that its jumped to 68% without any further substantial mileage added or is it down to the fact the battery size has been amended. 

Will check it again in a weeks time to perhaps clarify.

Hopefully it is due to the battery size and/or target SOC, I would be interested in knowing, but if a software update was done then the battery would, or should I say should have been on a charger or other power source when the update was done and may have been left like this while the Technician got on with other jobs. 

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13 hours ago, RMurphy195 said:

who can tell! Having said that, putting 26 gallonsinto a 52 gallon water tank would give a 50% fill, but telling the calulation that the water tank is 70 gallons would give a smaller %age

Maybe we are looking at this the wrong way round ?

The Names of the ‘BMS’ ‘SOC’ ‘BCM’ and ‘Battery’ have been changed to protect their identities.

Once upon a time ‘Jones the Steam’ was told by the ‘Fat Controller’ that he must fill Thomas’ little 52 gallon tank.

Make sure to never put more than 80% in Thomas’ tank” said the Fat Controller “or he might work too much

And so it was, Jones the Steam made sure never to overfill Thomas and kept the little tank engine thirsty and always wanting more.

One day when the Fat Controller was taking a nap, some engineers decided that little Thomas must be replaced by Gordon. Now Gordon was a much bigger engine and had a 70 gallon tank. What was poor Jones the Steam to do? He had been given clear instructions by the Fat Controller to always fill up to 80% of the tank.

So Jones the Steam set about filling Gordon and putting 56 gallons in his tank. The Fat Controller was pleased that his instructions to only ever fill to a maximum of 80% was working but he was strangely puzzled how it was that now they seemed to be using more water. Then one morning the Fat Controller decided that they needed to get more done and that this would mean Jones the Steam would have to put 95% in Gordon’s tank.

Gordon was very happy with this new arrangement as he always felt full and content and was able to work hard every day and never complained about needing more.

The End.

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9 hours ago, unofix said:

Maybe we are looking at this the wrong way round ?

The Names of the ‘BMS’ ‘SOC’ ‘BCM’ and ‘Battery’ have been changed to protect their identities.

Once upon a time ‘Jones the Steam’ was told by the ‘Fat Controller’ that he must fill Thomas’ little 52 gallon tank.

Make sure to never put more than 80% in Thomas’ tank” said the Fat Controller “or he might work too much

And so it was, Jones the Steam made sure never to overfill Thomas and kept the little tank engine thirsty and always wanting more.

One day when the Fat Controller was taking a nap, some engineers decided that little Thomas must be replaced by Gordon. Now Gordon was a much bigger engine and had a 70 gallon tank. What was poor Jones the Steam to do? He had been given clear instructions by the Fat Controller to always fill up to 80% of the tank.

So Jones the Steam set about filling Gordon and putting 56 gallons in his tank. The Fat Controller was pleased that his instructions to only ever fill to a maximum of 80% was working but he was strangely puzzled how it was that now they seemed to be using more water. Then one morning the Fat Controller decided that they needed to get more done and that this would mean Jones the Steam would have to put 95% in Gordon’s tank.

Gordon was very happy with this new arrangement as he always felt full and content and was able to work hard every day and never complained about needing more.

The End.

Correct, but you have got to feel sorry for The Fat Controller and Jones the Steam. They both know what should be done but the have their hands tied behind their backs by the Supreme Leader, Mr Green.

Mr Green lives with his head in the clouds and should be called Mr Brown because that is the colour if everything that he talks and his sycophantic followers are in positions of power everywhere. 

If you dare to disobey Mr Green then his thugs, the Blue Meanies will make everyone's life hell. 

The Fat Controllers European counterpart, Der Fat Controller tried to inject some common sense a few years ago regarding a related thing and it cost his company millions.

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Temporarily returning this thread to the original topic, the location for a negative pole, @wino was correct in suggesting such a pole exists in a convenient location. I finally got around to getting under the bonnet again early this morning (brr) and laughed when I saw how obvious it was...

IMG_0120(1).thumb.jpg.2d091110c49b84a8b50b287b301e8bd8.jpg

Croc clips appear to be quick & easy at least...

Charging time was < 3 hours to get to the green "done" light at just above freezing temperatures. Now I need to see if stop/start comes to life...

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2 hours ago, unofix said:

Ah !! just realized that you are "The" Mr Green !

It all makes perfect sense now 🤣

You've lost me there :confused1: @unofix but don't worry, I wont lose any sleep over it.

I'm a shoot the greens person, seriously.

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Hi @Tizer we kind of got crossed wires.

I got your joke about the Green's causing the problems due to emissions. Then I noticed that the guy who kind of kicked everything off regarding where to connect the charger is actually called James Green !! (maybe you already knew that)

BTW, I don't think you can shoot the OP just for asking a question 🤣

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1 hour ago, unofix said:

Hi @Tizer we kind of got crossed wires.

I got your joke about the Green's causing the problems due to emissions. Then I noticed that the guy who kind of kicked everything off regarding where to connect the charger is actually called James Green !! (maybe you already knew that)

BTW, I don't think you can shoot the OP just for asking a question 🤣

Got you now👍, I did not notice and not sure if he did. 

I'm not going to answer the last bit, I'm too busy cleaning my gun😁

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