Why all this fuss on having ID to protect & cast your democratic vote?

[StephenFord]

I have listened to much debate recently as government seek to mandate the showing of ID to cast an electoral vote. The usual argument is that it would disadvantage the poor and the elderly as they often do not have suitable ID. They skip over the fact that the electoral authorities will provide ID FREE OF CHARGE. Northern Ireland has required ID since 1985, and it honestly is not an issue, odd for a society where 'democracy' is often under fire!

So, if you feel it's an issue, why, or do you think it's a sensible move?

[williamweb]

1 hour ago, StephenFord said:

I have listened to much debate recently as government seek to mandate the showing of ID to cast an electoral vote. The usual argument is that it would disadvantage the poor and the elderly as they often do not have suitable ID. They skip over the fact that the electoral authorities will provide ID FREE OF CHARGE. Northern Ireland has required ID since 1985, and it honestly is not an issue, odd for a society where 'democracy' is often under fire!

So, if you feel it's an issue, why?

Any idea when it’s coming in?We have local elections in May.

[StephenFord]

6 minutes ago, williamweb said:

Any idea when it’s coming in?We have local elections in May.

I believe it has just passed the first stage in the House of Commons, and now will be kicked off to the House of Lords for scrutiny...

[Wino]

There was something in the news this morning about the rights to moan and be noisy getting kicked into touch by being out voted 261 to 166 IIRC.

[TomsFocus]

I would have thought most elderly people would either drive or use a bus pass to reach the polling station...if they can't get out (and therefore have no need for those ID's) then they're probably already casting postal votes.

Seems like unnecessary hassle tbh.  The polling station here is always a bit chaotic and frantic as it is.  Adding ID checks will just add to the congestion and queues.  Though I'm not against it for any 'privacy' reason.

Out of interest, what's the free ID that can be provided?  I assume it'd need to be photo ID which aren't cheap to produce?  I'll never have a passport myself which did cause some hassle before I got a driving licence.  People living in town centre flats on low incomes don't necessarily learn to drive so I can see the argument for them not having ID for example.

[StephenFord]

12 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Out of interest, what's the free ID that can be provided?  I assume it'd need to be photo ID which aren't cheap to produce?

Tom, attached is a 'google' image of an electoral card if you have access to no other form of ID. The cost is part of the electoral commission budget, and as you say, the vast majority of folk already have some kind of ID, even to pick up benefits. As for being 'chaotic', maybe it's just that we have become accustomed to it now after over 30 years of using it. When voting, you go to the 'desk' and as one person checks your ID, the other one tears off your ballot paper, it really is very quick and seamless...

[Marlburian]

Recently I've twice become petulant about being requested by a solicitor and a small bank to prove my ID by using an app on my mobile phone to scan my driving licence, then immediately take a selfie and submit. Eventually the  former (based some 100 miles from where I live) said I should get a local solicitor to certify a copy of my licence, but most firms will only do this for an existing client. In the end my bank branch (happily only a mile away away) did it for free.

Last week I sought a refund from HMRC and was asked to confirm my ID; one of the possible pieces of verification was a Northern Ireland driving licence. I live in England, so why wouldn't a UK one do? In the end I rang up HMRC and spoke to a real person within a couple of minutes, who said that he would arrange the refund, but that this would take up to 13 weeks.

[StephenFord]

2 minutes ago, Marlburian said:

Last week I sought a refund from HMRC and was asked to confirm my ID; one of the possible pieces of verification was a Northern Ireland driving licence. I live in England, so why wouldn't a UK one do?

In NI our driving license consists of a plastic credit card sized photo card, and a paper counterpart. I'm not sure if the Great Britain version has this 'paper counterpart'?

[Jimpster]

This is the first step in a clamp down, and long overdue. Certain sections and religious leaders hold proxy votes for large swathes of females that can and should vote if entitled.

As an aside i also agreed with the national identity card, and those not complying could and should be removed and loose access to the UK's services NHS etc.

StephenFord the uk mainly only has the plastic credit card, tho those that have never applied for one may have the original paper version.

[StephenFord]

3 minutes ago, JImpster said:

StephenFord the uk mainly only has the plastic credit card, tho those that have never applied for one may have the original paper version.

I think you may have misunderstood me, the NI license consists of 2 x parts, plastic & paper, it's not either/or. We use to have a cardboard version but that was about 30 years ago LOL

[Jimpster]

i knew what you meant that NI citizens hold both parts, If a UK citizen has never surrendered their licence to be amended they may still have the original green paper, but the majority now will have the credit card only, which has become a cash cow as we need to surrender every 10 years yto have the photo updated.

[Eric Bloodaxe]

1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

I would have thought most elderly people would either drive or use a bus pass to reach the polling station...if they can't get out (and therefore have no need for those ID's) then they're probably already casting postal votes.

I find the bus pass very handy for a form of id. Not having changed address for 30 years, I don't have a photocard licence yet but presumably will have shortly when I have to reapply.

The issue, as I've heard it reported, has not been so much with personal votes at polling stations, but with postal votes, particularly in communities where many people (mainly women) have poor command of English and are told how to vote by others in the household.

[erictcleric]

13 hours ago, StephenFord said:

attached is a 'google' image of an electoral card if you have access to no other form of ID

Thanks - will print that out. Just need to change my name to James Millar now. 

[Chrissy_J]

On 1/18/2022 at 10:59 AM, JImpster said:

i knew what you meant that NI citizens hold both parts, If a UK citizen has never surrendered their licence to be amended they may still have the original green paper, but the majority now will have the credit card only, which has become a cash cow as we need to surrender every 10 years yto have the photo updated.

When I got my first photo card licence it came with a paper counterpart, which documented any specific conditions, endorsements and the like, in a neat little plastic wallet. The wallets soon went out of production and I believe the paper counterpart is now also extinct, though I still have mine. In these days of instant access to the DVLA via the Internet, the paper bit is probably now redundant. 

[Chrissy_J]

With reference to the original post, I can't see that mandatory ID for voters makes life any easier. You'll need someone at the polling station to be able to verify it as genuine or acceptable, voters will have to remember to take it along with them, not having one will put off people from voting. Is in-person voter fraud really such a big deal in the UK, that such measures are necessary? I understood there were more problems with postal ballots, than at polling stations. 

[StephenFord]

17 minutes ago, Chrissy_J said:

With reference to the original post, I can't see that mandatory ID for voters makes life any easier. You'll need someone at the polling station to be able to verify it as genuine or acceptable, voters will have to remember to take it along with them, not having one will put off people from voting. Is in-person voter fraud really such a big deal in the UK, that such measures are necessary? I understood there were more problems with postal ballots, than at polling stations. 

I think you are doing the voters of this country down - they'll forget to bring ID? They'll soon learn it's part of the voting process, just like when you go shopping you bring some kind of payment method with you. Have no idea why anyone would be put off? (If they don't have ID, it will be provided FREE of charge), and yes, at the issue desk, you have one guy checking your ID whilst the other tears off your ballot paper - it really isn't an inconvenience at all. Maybe it's because we have being doing it for over 30 years now it''s second nature.

I treat my vote very seriously, and have voted in every single election ever held here since I was 18, I am glad that 'my' vote is protected, it's very valuable...

[williamweb]

34 minutes ago, StephenFord said:

I think you are doing the voters of this country down - they'll forget to bring ID? They'll soon learn it's part of the voting process, just like when you go shopping you bring some kind of payment method with you. Have no idea why anyone would be put off? (If they don't have ID, it will be provided FREE of charge), and yes, at the issue desk, you have one guy checking your ID whilst the other tears off your ballot paper - it really isn't an inconvenience at all. Maybe it's because we have being doing it for over 30 years now it''s second nature.

I treat my vote very seriously, and have voted in every single election ever held here since I was 18, I am glad that 'my' vote is protected, it's very valuable...

Doing a quick google it does look like Northern Ireland has a lower turnout rate in elections since 1945 than Great Britain though, for what ever reasons.

[StephenFord]

59 minutes ago, williamweb said:

Doing a quick google it does look like Northern Ireland has a lower turnout rate in elections since 1945 than Great Britain though, for what ever reasons.

Now, we had an 81% turn out when voting on the Good Friday Agreement - don't believe everything Google says LOL

Oh, there was also a massive scandal of not allowing votes to people who were not the 'occupier' of a house and various other exclusions to voting which lead to the Civil Rights Movement in the 60s, and the following period of the, 'Troubles'... (Also, during the 'troubles', if it wasn't urgent, many people never left their house for fear of being shot, blown up, or caught up in a riot, that may explain the lower than GB average)

[Chrissy_J]

7 hours ago, StephenFord said:

Maybe it's because we have being doing it for over 30 years now it''s second nature.

There you have it, its been common practice for thirty years in NI. How long did it take to *become* common practice? People still haven't got used to taking their own bags to the shops, or wearing seatbelts... 

Well, if it happens, it happens. And people will ***** and moan about it, but they'll manage. As the army says, if a man dies when you hang him, keep hanging him till he gets used to it. 

[StephenFord]

3 minutes ago, Chrissy_J said:

... People still haven't got used to taking their own bags to the shops, or wearing seatbelts...

In the same way that there is a publicity campaign every Christmas not to 'drink & drive', there is a campaign here every election to bring ID. I'm old enough to remember the introduction of seatbelts, 'clunk click every trip'! Never forgotten ever not to wear it, and as for 'bags', have not bought a new one in 10 years as I do not like giving the government 1p more than absolutely necessary! LOL

[williamweb]

Turn out will drop at least in the short term.Definitely won’t be increasing that’s for sure, regardless of how easy photo id is made available.Having said that fraud seems to be on the rise, can’t see it happening where I live though,we’re all on first name terms ha ha.

 

[RMurphy195]

I'd be happy to do this, I've always wondered about what would happen if I turned up to vote to find someone else had turned up claiming to be me - how would the person at the polling station know it wasn't me?

[Jimpster]

Hence the push for photo ID