A Curious Problem

[APJ]

Hi all,been having a strange problem with my 2005 2.0TDCI Titanium saloon (93k on the clock) over the past 3 weeks. It’s a rev issue. Its so far happened 4 times.

I turn the engine on, press the clutch down and put the car into 1st gear, then I slowly press the accelerator down and lift the clutch but the revs only seem to climb a bit and really slowly (and the motion of the car is a bit jumpy)……to the point where I cant really get out of first gear! So I have to stop, put the car in neutral and press the accelerator petal down (not hard) and wait for the revs to get up to around 1,600rpm (which can take around 6 seconds) then it suddenly corrects itself and is fine, revs respond as normal. Its only ever happened from a standing position in 1st gear….have never had a loss of revs/power in any other gear.

Also the car does kinda idle ok at around 900rpm, but have noticed that sometimes when I start the engine the revs hover a little between 700-900rpm for a while before settleing at 900rpm

Ive had it happen when the engine has been warm and cold so don’t think its to do with that. Anyone else experienced this? Is the most likey culprit a sooted up EGR valve? Or could it be something more simple than that? I hope it is something more simple because im gona get the CAM belt, tensioners, water pump changed in early march and don’t wana have to fork out for any other major repairs!

[jeebowhite]

Sounds either valve or sensor related. EGR valve does sound the most likely bet. have you dont the dashboard trick and seen any errors?

[APJ]

i havnt tried the dashboard trick yet but since ive owned the car (about 4 months now) i havnt seen one error light come up on the dash...and am i right in thinking the car will only record errors if a warning light comes on? would it record an error if there was something not quite right with the EGR or throttle position sensor? i did wonder wether it could be something to do with the throttle position sensor, I know the EGR costs a lot to have replaced (£300-£400) would a throttle position sensor be expensive too?

[jeebowhite]

The car will record all errors wether a light shows or not (some codes can only be accessed by the diagnostics machines at a dealers!?) but there are a lot of errors that will be captured without an error light.

as for the TPS, I havent yet come across one needing to be replaced so couldnt really advise.

[APJ]

right, i tried the dashboard trick and all seemed fine apart from this DTC #01 D900 is this even an error code? If so anyone know what it means? and how do i know this is a current error code and not one from ages ago which was corrected?

[APJ]

found this out about the d900 error

The instrument cluster fault code D900 means...." non specific can communications interruption "

This does NOT mean you have a fault on the car. It's merely reporting that the networking around the car had an unidentified interuption in power supply.....so.....had a flat battery or jump start recently ?, maybe battery been disconnected for some reason ?

If the answer is no to the above, then have your battery tested. If battery is ok, have a battery reset done and code should disappear. ( remove negative lead from battery and hold to +ve lead for 2 minutres).

[Lenny]

Perhaps check all your induction hoses and connections as a slight gap or slit can take away from the vacume .

[APJ]

yeah good call lenny will do that:-)

[APJ]

Just thought id update you all on the problem with my Focus that id been having. I did check all hoses and pipes and couldnt find any cracks,gaps or slits. so that was good.

Its been over a week now and the problem hasnt reoccured as yet. and the only thing I have done different is fill up with Shell Vpower diesel instead of ordinary diesel. So im starting to think it was due to some dodgy diesel. I also added some red x and gave gave the car a good blast on the motorway.

Also it does idle better, still not perfect altho when the engine gets up to temp it seems ok. When starting it from cold the needle hovers around 900rpm sometimes dipping ever so slightly but then correcting itself straight away. I think i was getting too carried away and assuming the worst eg EGR, fuel injection pumps etc.

So hopefully all is ok and when i get a new cam belt fitted next month i wont have to fork out to have anything else done!

[APJ]

Car has gone into my local Ford garage today to have CAM belt and water pump changed. Am still occasionally getting the slow throttle responce issue, which has become more regular (even happened in 2nd gear the other day)....still no warning lights or error codes. So the garage are gona look into that for me too. will keep you all updated if they find out the cause!

[johnH]

could be some could be something really simple such as a fuel filter (if fitted).

[APJ]

Ford just this minute phoned....they've fitted the new CAM belt and water pump, thats all fine, was also having an issue with the drivers side headlight which they say they have fixed, something to do with loose wiring.

In terms of the slow throttle responce they said that they took the car out on 2 test runs and it seemed fine....they checked for error codes and said a 'soft code' had been written which could indicate the EGR isnt quite oppereating how it should be...but he did say that the code didnt mean for certain that it was the EGR but in his experience the culprit is usually the EGR. He said to give it a few more weeks and see what happens.......but it looks like im gona have to save up for new EGR valve which i know cost the best part of £300 through Ford:-(

If i have a EGR valve does this mean i have a DPF?? forgot to b1oody ask him on the phone wether i had one. I did ask them to check for me to see if i have got one though so will hopefully find out tonight when i pick it up

[jeebowhite]

Likely as not yes you will have the Damned par-crapulated filter! I'm not 100% sure though...

[APJ]

I will find out once and for all if have one tonight when i go to pick car up! bet i b1oody have:-(

My next question is.....Has anyone recently had their EGR valve replaced by Ford? if so what was the cost?

[APJ]

I DONT HAVE A DPF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-) that has made my day.

right heres a bill breakdown for Cam belt and Water Pump change for those who are interested!

1 timing belt, tensioner & pully £134.63

1 Water Pump kit £117.08

Total labour for both those parts was £101

Total £352.71 which isnt bad.....then theres the old VAT

So total including VAT is £422.71

[jeebowhite]

I DONT HAVE A DPF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-) that has made my day.

right heres a bill breakdown for Cam belt and Water Pump change for those who are interested!

1 timing belt, tensioner & pully £134.63

1 Water Pump kit £117.08

Total labour for both those parts was £101

Total £352.71 which isnt bad.....then theres the old VAT

So total including VAT is £422.71

Clearly you do still get the EGR valve on DPF free diesels! lol, sounds good!

by the way, your a lucky sod! lol now you just have to check your service papers and see if they did any eolys fluid topup's to pay for there shiney new socket set ;)

[APJ]

yeah jeebowhite i do realise that ive been very lucky..It obviously was an option on the 05 plate 2.0tdci titanium saloon...........fortunatly it was an option which wasnt taken up. I have been so very very lucky....wasnt even aware of DPF's before i bought the car last Sep. I genuinly feel sorry for the people who have got ones which are going wrong. They do seem like pointless expensive pieces of kit.

Sounds like my EGR will need doing soon but if this EGR has lasted for 94k then hopefully the new one will also last for that amount of miles. Just need to find out the exact cost for Ford to fit one....and will ring a few independants too. Cos i dont have to get the EGR done by Ford do i?? Its not like the CAM belt where theres an advantage to Ford doing the job

would be interested to hear of any people out there who have recently had their EGR's replaced! how much did it cost?

[jeebowhite]

Sorry, slipping back onto the DPF subject, they are a nuisance and a waste of money, and like you I didnt know they existed until I got my first service and a £130 bill... Its a shame they werent more marketed, but then again how do you market it? "This vehicle comes with an over-rated filter, that "cleans" the already clean remaining gasses that have passed through the catalytic converter. This little gadget will cost you in excess of £100 every 37k miles, and will cost your left nipple and right arm at 75k miles..." I suppose I can see why they didnt want to advertise it so boldly, but then again car manufacturers are really sneaky!

Back on track, the EGR Valve can be bought for £130, as it has been replaced by the average Joe on multiple forums, it can be done by yourself, or if you were to hand it to Ford, they probably would charge two hours labour or so!

[APJ]

DPF's are unfit for the purpose of general use basically. They are not for all reasonable types and conditions of use. I think the DPF's which are fitted in new cars are better than the first type but people like me who didn’t have a lot of cash and were looking to buy a high'ish milage diesel thats around 5yrs old better watch out. I was extremly lucky to have bought a diesel that didn’t have a DPF fitted….its not something I even checked for when I got the car….i had no idea about DPF's.

I found one site selling focus EGR's for £131 and another site which quoted me £211. Im guessing if I got one through Ford it would be nearer the £200 mark than the £130. then of course theres the labour charge. Might have to seriously consider trying to clean it…is it easy to get at in the engine bay?

[APJ]

also if i clean the one i already have in the car myself would anything need programing? or if i got my local mechanic to fit a new one would he need to re-programe the ecu or anything?

[APJ]

Developments......

Basically the sticky EGR valve reared its ugly head again yesterday morning..but this time i couldnt get the revs high enough so that it would clear itself...and ive been putting up with it for a while now and was at my wits end.

So called the AA out. He was really good, turned up within 20mins and confirmed straight away that it ws definatly a sticky EGR valve. So he disconnected it which enabled me to drive it down to Fords...and am just gona bite the bullet and get a new one put in.

Whats annoying is that on saturday i drove all over hampshire looking for some Wynn's EGR3 valve cleaner spray but literally nowhere sold it..could only get it off the net. But the AA guy said that when they start to fail the spay will only put off the inevitable for a month or two. But he did say that the EGR valve i had in there was the original EGR valve and that it hadnt been changed before....so hopefully this one will last 95k too. also am gona ask Ford when they ring later if i can keep the original EGR valve cos wana take it apart and have a look at the !Removed! thing.

Ford reckon it'll be 2hrs labour plus the cost of the part which they are gona confirm today....so i reckon its gona cost between £400-£500. which is a lot but if the valve is good for 95k i'll be happy. Just a shame it failed before i had a chance to use some EGR valve cleaner.

[jeebowhite]

Sods law really! sorry to hear that it didnt work out for you, but as you say at least if you can get the old EGR valve (Which I see no reason why you shouldnt as it is your own property!) then yeah it could be very educational! we do expect a theosis writeup, on how it works, and how you can improve it of course, along with pictures of reuilding from scratch ;) lol

[APJ]

Well, Ford phoned at lunch and confirmed the total price for the job..including labour,part and VAT etc would be £419. But annoyingly they didnt have the part in stock so had to order it up from Hedge End (which isnt far from the dealership), so im hoping they will finish the job by half 5 today...but i still havnt had a call so looks like it'll be with Ford tomo too.

I asked the mechanic i spoke to if i could keep the old EGR valve and he was fine with that.....and like u said it is mine anyway. So i will be having a good look at it, opening it up and taking some pics. haha not sure about a thesis tho ;-)

When do you get your Kia Cee'd then mate? how come its insurance group 17!?? or was that an error??

[jeebowhite]

Well, Ford phoned at lunch and confirmed the total price for the job..including labour,part and VAT etc would be £419. But annoyingly they didnt have the part in stock so had to order it up from Hedge End (which isnt far from the dealership), so im hoping they will finish the job by half 5 today...but i still havnt had a call so looks like it'll be with Ford tomo too.

I asked the mechanic i spoke to if i could keep the old EGR valve and he was fine with that.....and like u said it is mine anyway. So i will be having a good look at it, opening it up and taking some pics. haha not sure about a thesis tho ;-)

When do you get your Kia Cee'd then mate? how come its insurance group 17!?? or was that an error??

Well Im testing it on Sunday, and presuming I like it I will be paying it outright then (Thank you Mr Banker Loan!) and then just got to sort the exchange... Problem is I work 30 miles away, and tend to be out from 8am to 7pm so I cant even pop by at the end of the day :( Might just sweet talk my boss (more difficult when he is a guy!) and see if he will let me off for a couple of hours to do the exchange... Might use the excuse "If you let me go, then I can get a more reliable car, and can guarantee I will be at work tomorrow, and not stuck on the roadside... " lol

As for the Insurance Group, the problem was in 2007, they changed the insurance rating from 1 - 20 to a scale of 1 - 50. The insurance group on the old pre 2007 is insurance group 6 (not too disimalar to the Focus) and on the new 1-50 scale is 17...

Price difference is barely noticable, granted I am getting an extra 9bhp, but losing the diesel efficiency :( having said that, with an extra urban of 54 and combined of 46, I doubt I will lose too much sleep!

Roll on Sunday...

EDIT: Just to end back on topic, Hopefully you do get your car back soon! Do you have anything like a "service Plan"? I have one with Dagenham motors, I pay just over £15ppm and that entitles me to a afew benefits including 10% off labour and parts, and then its like spreading the cost of the service over the year! do you get any sort of benefit such as that?

[APJ]

Sorting cars out when you're out from 8-7 is a nightmare..you basically have to book time off. Im lucky that the ford garage I use is 3 mins down the road from where I live and only a 25min drive from where I work. Ive only heard good things about Kia Cee'ds, will be interesting to see how you get on with it. Oh yeah I forgot the insurance system has now changed…so 17 out of 50 is pretty good.

I did get my car back yesterday…..BUT………... even though I spoke to 2 different people at my Ford garage and made it perfectly clear that I wanted to keep the old EGR…they'd returned it to their main Ford parts place at Hedge End. The parts guy told me some long story as to why it had gone back which I didn’t even understand and was very apologetic. So then I was sceptical that they'd even changed it all (fortunatly they had cos I checked when I got home). So that was very annoying and wanted to have a good look at old EGR and get cracking on my EGR thesis ;-) And as yet the problem has not reoccured…but sometimes the car would run fine for a week then id suddenly have the problem so will have to wait a good 1-2 weeks before I finally give it the all-clear. It does run smoother and feel better so looking good so far.

To be fair I knew that when I bought the car last September that I was going to have to pay a bit out on it in terms of work cos it had done 88k at time of purchase….Now ive had the CAM belt, water pump, some valves and EGR valve replaced for £841 in total…which is a lot but I see it that by buying the car privately I probably saved about £1000…..from my research a garage would of charged a good £1000+ more for the car than I paid. So in a way I had £1000 in order to get it ship shape….which hopefully it now is. I don’t want anything else major to have to be replaced this year…..apart from possibily new break pads/discs at some point..but not too worried about them yet!