Rough Idle On A 2004 2.0 Tdci

[plumbob]

Well i had a leak off test done today at a diesel specialist and it came back with a failure for ALL the injectors. The next step would be to take them off and have them bench test but i just cannot get my head around all four of them failing?

It just seems hard to believe considering the mileage (77k) and the fact it has a full service history. Is there anything else that would make all the injectors leak off alot of fuel at once.

[Stoney871]

Common rail injectors work at incredibly high pressures - excess of 1500 bar so will really suffer with just a small amount of wear or pressure loss.

get a Diesel specialist to check and confirm the diagnosed.

4 replacement Injectors will be pricey.

[plumbob]

It was a diesel specialist that carried out the leak off test. The next process they offered me is a bench test and subsequent repair/recode (unlikely) or injector replacement (more than likely). If you want me to be honest i would prefer to get rid off the car but i wouldn't expect a garage to offer me much, one thing is for sure though i will not be buying another ford as everyone i have had has ended costing me more or the same as what i paid for it. £760 is the quote to replace all the injectors but i suppose you will have to add the union pipes and a new filter on top of that which will most likely be another £100 plus any testing they carry out.

At the moment i don't see how it will make financial sense to repair it, throw in the new set of tyres, thermostat housing and auxiliary belt kit it needs and your looking at about £1500.

[Stoney871]

At the end of the day only you can categorically say whether the car is worth the repair or it's time to part ways.

I would let them do the bench test and make your choice on the results of that.

[Z3 MON]

get some second hand ones from the scrappy and a f supper, recode and trade in

if it was me personally, seeing as there isnt much left to do i would by a second set, second hand and have a got a trying to refurb myself but that only becuase im curious as to how everything works all the time lol

[plumbob]

Good idea about the second hand injectors dave. I think that might be the only way forward.

As i paid 3k for the car i see no point in spending £1500 to sort it and then the DMF or something else goes, i have no heart in the car anymore and if iam to be honest if i knew as much about the mondeos then as i do now i would have never bought one let alone this one.

If i can get back what i paid for it i will be happy to let the rest go.

[Z3 MON]

Right had the F supper on today and here are the results. Also to note, everytime i tried to read the injectors (not write) the car would shut down about 30 seconds after reading them?

i tired reving to 2,500 but as im accelerating the revs are dropping and struggling to go up. so they basically go up, up a bit more, down load, up a bit more, up a bit more, down loads all whilst my foot is accelerating gently. this has never happened before. also this morning was harder to start, 3 turns (engine turned well it just didnt fire) once it got going it was real rough like nothing before, slowly got better as it warmed up though.

No i have no idea what all the thinks on formindable mean but i can tell you the following

on PCM live data:

RPM flux between 750 and 767

FRP flux between 199 and 238 bar

MFdes 4.15 and 4.71 MG

everything else is steady.

just to clarify the egr is blocked. yet there is egrp and egrd readings during reving.

any help apreciatged.

Dave

[plumbob]

I wonder if you ECU might be damaged, you have tried so many things there must only be a few things left to do or find faulty. How come you haven't tried to recode the injectors?

[Z3 MON]

Because I can't read the codes that are on them physically so don't want to make it worse lol

[plumbob]

Why can't you read them, if you just use a small mirror and get your wife to write them down as you read them off you could try and recode them.

I know you have had a leak off test that came back ok but as far as iam aware it will tell you that your injectors are dirty but not if they are worn?

[plumbob]

Just as an idea dave would it not be worth getting a 2nd hand warranty on the car? i don't know how these things work but if you could get it then leave it a few weeks and then claim on it then it might save you a bit of money.

[Stoney871]

Of course that would be fraud.

[plumbob]

Well that sounds very PC there clive.

I would consider ford manufacturing a faulty car to be fraud but no one from the authorities or government care about that.

The car has numerous recalls and fault warnings and as dave is proving they can be very costly to repair even before you have found the fault.

[Stoney871]

Well that sounds very PC there clive.

Seeing as i am actually a PC i'm merely stating a fact.

Taking out a warranty and then claiming for a pre existing problem is fraud, pure and simple.

I'm not attempting to be all jobsworth or anything like that but i would be remiss if i didn't point the facts out.

[plumbob]

I think the joke was wasted on you clive, no surprise i have yet to meet a busy that has a sense of humour.

As we are all adults here i would like to think that we are aware of what we are doing in regards to right or wrong, i am merely throwing ideas at dave because it will of course be his decision on what he ends up doing so lets leave it at that.

[Stoney871]

Ha ha ;)

[Z3 MON]

It is a good idea, but as i work in the claims and insurance industry so i know its fraud.

Not to mean i havent once considered going down that route, however if you want cover to include injectors and the like, then the vehicle has to have done less than 80,000 to buy the policy.

Unfortunatley mine has 83,000

Ill be honest, i know a lot of people are saying injectors but my gut is telling me its not, now the car go better once i put the cap on the fuel send on properly. i thinking thats just allowed for a better fuel pressure. the light has not come on for a week now despite me trying. the whole car still wobbles on idle, but the engine sound like its running even. i noticed when you !Removed! the engine down the whole car really shakes and the engine really throws its self around. also when you rev (stationary) the whole engine does appear to tilt back a fair bit more than i might have expected. however when iddling the engine rocks a bit but no more than you would expect from a big chucky diesel block.

I looked under the car as my dad turned it off but the mount low down at teh back of the engine does seem to move at all. so i first ruled out that as being an issue but now im wondering if maybe it is still knackered or maybe its one of the other engine mounts. on shutdown the whole exhaust really wobbles some lol.

[plumbob]

Well i would say it would be unwise to dimiss an injector issue as not being the fault, i for one have had my injectors tested and it did fail the leak of test but bad injectors dont always fail a leak off test. While speaking to someone at work i was horrified to find out that since owning the car from new (03 reg) the guy has had "TWO" sets of injectors and the car has only covered 128,000 miles. It is a very known issue with the mondeos which is why i wasn't surprised to the car park at the diesel specialist full of them.

I really think it would be worth using your super f and recoding the injectors, if it works then you have found your fault and as you already own one its a shame to not try it as its free! My plan is to do that and with any luck it will solve the idle as thats the only issue with mine and then i shall be rid of the car as soon as possible.

[Z3 MON]

I will give it ago but I'm struggling reading the code even with a small mirror.

[plumbob]

Yes it is difficult i will admit that, i didn't check it 100% i just read as far up as i could then i checked the codes on top of the engine for a part match. When i setup my super f today the codes were exactly the same as the ones i had wrote down so i am happy to use them, although i did have the same thing happen to me in regards to the car cutting out shortly after reading the codes which is an odd one.

One big difference between our two vehicles though dave is that mine has a much higher fuel pressure reading at idle and 2000 rpm, at 2000rpm i am pretty sure that mine was over 600 bar whilst at idle it was around 300-400 bar.

[plumbob]

Any updates dave?

[Z3 MON]

Hi, unfortunately no update as my brothers focus blew up some I'm a bit busy stripping that at the moment.

It seems to staying how is now, which is better than it used to be but still not right lol

[turbine]

In desperation I replaced the EGR valve this weekend and while I was at it meticulously checked the hose that fails for damage. Waiting to see if it helps when the ECU adapts to the new set-up.

On Jaguarforum.co.,uk theres this kid that took his chugger to a Diesel specialist who (after much diagnostics) found wiring the loom for the injection rail regulator (sensor) was damaged, as it had been rubbing against the alternator belt. This was causing the regulator to fluctuate eractically. He repaired the wiring loom and the car now runs smooth again.

I'll be back...

[turbine]

Wiring loom nowhere near the belt or pulleys. Not an issue.

Didn't have symptoms of boost hose split but took it off and inspected anyway. Its fine.

Put some clear plastic reinforced hose 8mm ID between filter and pump inlet.

Quite easy to suck fuel through the filter into the hose so no blockages.

On running absolutely no air bubbles at all. LP system is fine.

Running out of ideas.

[Z3 MON]

Hi guys,

Sorry it's been so hectic.

Striping a focus, re doing the carbs on a gsxr, And this beast as well as general maintenance on a CBr means I've been very busy.

So basically I still have the wobbly idle and the P0251 fueling issue.

My first question is: would a motorofactor fuel filter give the same symptoms as a blocked or well used fuel filter and will this cause my current issues. Basically my last mechanic changed the fuel filter (I asked for a Bosch but looked and it's not marked at all with any names).

I changed the oils and filter yesterday

I also removed the blanking plate.

The engine sounds smoother at the top but the knock seems to have moved towards the bottom, where as before it was a cold rattle at the top which has gone from the oil change/plate removable.

The knock sounds like something is Gona come through the side of the engine.

Video: http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r562/Heathrow_Ford_Parts/3092ed28.mp4

Bear in mind it has the belt, tensioner and pulley changed 5 months/2,500 miles ago

Now I know everyone loves to jump on the injector issue but it's not that, injectors are fine, recoded -no difference, leak off test was fine, bench test was good.

It's the not the fuel pump either as it's only the 2000-2002 modeled pump that has the issue of breaking up.

I removed and check the boost pipe on the drivers side from egr to the lower plastic pipe. Removed and was covered in oil lower down, cleaned and checked for splits an cracks - non. So have refitted and will see it it happens again but I don't think it will.

I am 99.9% it's a leak issue or fuel filter. Either a leak in fuel lines anywhere from the tank all the way into the block. Or an air leak on the boost system. But I have been thinking about it so hard my mind is going round in circles.

The next thing I'll try is a fuel filter but where do I go from their .....