Fog Lamps As Led Drl Substitutes, Discuss

[catch]

Hi playmates,

Much as Ilike the idea of fitting the aftermarket DRL's in the Mk2.5 Focus

The one niggling thought in my mind is ...........How long will the LED's last?

I mean I dont fancy shelling out circa £90 [cost of the linked to item] if one decides to go "walkabout" say in eighteen months or maybe two years or even four years down the line.....having lived in Yorkshire for over fifty years I've aquired the odd Yorkshire trait

Now in the last nigh on five years of ownership of my previous Mk2 Focus, I can quite clearly recollect having to use my fog lights on two occasions. Once on the A30 in Cornwall, and the other on the A59 twixt Bolton Abbey and Harrogate. Total time of actual usage requirement, I would hazard a guess at being no longer collectively than a couple of hours tops.

Now to me that is a very under utilised lighting set up. And to be perfectly honest on my Mk 2 I wired a electromagnetic [hidden behind the front bumper] front parking aid set up, via the fog lamp switch. Reason being, when I previously fitted them on our S40 Volvo the wife often used to foget to switch the sensors off after using them, no matter how many times I told her after using... switch the bleeding things OFF...............

You married guy's will know where I'm coming from regards women and light switches, hot taps, and the like. You see women don't ever consider men have anything important to say that they would be remotely interested in, hence they stop listening ...........its in their genes :D

So when she wanted to use them in the Mk 2, if she left them on, sas soon as she opened the drivers side door, the "left lights on" alarm would sound.

Anyway as I'm about to fit the front parking aid in my newly accuired Mk 2.5 [that's what I like about that type of set up, you can take them with you] This will be the third vehicle served by that one purchase.

Anyway back on subject, I was toying with the idea of possibly swopping my current fog lamp bulbs, with some LED ones like these Because if these decided to go "walkabout" in eighteen months, the replacemet cost will be a dam sight easy for my wallet to swallow.

Not sure if it's a go'er, so I'm putting it up for discussion, good and bad lpoints lets get it out there.

[higgsy]

Definitely possible, but then you have to turn them on every time you get in the car.

Sent from my Zetec S using the FOC for Android app

[artscot79]

well its illegal and an mot failure as has been discussed on here before i toyed with the same idea till i was told that since the fogs are factory fitted they must work as fog lamps and not drls and will be tested as so on an mot and secondly from a police friend that they would stop me for using my fog lights when not necessary and i can recieve a charge as per the road traffic act as regardless they were fitted as fogs originally and therefore they are fog lights and not drls as they were not factory fitted as drls

It is not permitted to modify fog lights to become drl, if the light comes on with the fog lights switch then it is still classed as a fog light and therefore illegal to use unless visibility is severely impaired.

http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/43394-using-fog-lights-as-drl/

[catch]

Definitely possible, but then you have to turn them on every time you get in the car.

Sent from my Zetec S using the FOC for Android app

Well I was thinking of connecting the DRL/Spots with a feed that goes on and off with the ignition. Combining a ignition side isolating switch, say in the glove box. Where it appears there is a recessed blanking plate, for the provision of a 12v socket, if required. Top left front as you look at it with the lid down. Leaving the existing Front Fog Lamp Switch as is.

That way, you have options, use as DRL's or as Fogs, you could also fit a dimming controller, for when you switch on the headlights.

[artscot79]

again its illegal to use fog lamps as anything other than fog lamps the police will do you regardless of what you claim they are should you have tampered with them you can be asked to get the car motd which it would fail as they do not meet the specs for drls they are not marked as drls and they were not fitted as drls from standard there is no way of getting around the issue to be honest

since its illegal to use fog lamps when it is not warranted youll simply be stopped you can explain all day but the fact is they are fog lamps not factory fitted drls

[catch]

well its illegal and an mot failure as has been discussed on here before i toyed with the same idea till i was told that since the fogs are factory fitted they must work as fog lamps and not drls and will be tested as so on an mot and secondly from a police friend that they would stop me for using my fog lights when not necessary and i can recieve a charge as per the road traffic act as regardless they were fitted as fogs originally and therefore they are fog lights and not drls as they were not factory fitted as drls

It is not permitted to modify fog lights to become drl, if the light comes on with the fog lights switch then it is still classed as a fog light and therefore illegal to use unless visibility is severely impaired.

http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/43394-using-fog-lights-as-drl/Well

Well Arthur me old muker [ purely for the matter of debate you understand ] i would suggest that is possibly your interpitation of the legislation in regard to "Fog Lamps". Not the definitive interpitation as intended.

I think you will find, it is only illegal to use the rear fog lights as anything other than for the use of fog lights. And again it is illegal to use aforementioned when visability is not deemed to be fog like. Using your rear fog lights whilst it is raining but not foggy, will also lead to a ticket. For obvious reason, in normal conditions , makling it confusing to following drivers to discern when your appling your brakes. And in rain but non foggy visability, the glare caused by having you rear fog lights can cause distress to drivers directly behind you.

To support my argument [ love a good argument ] ;) may I refer you to the discription of said lamps in the link I supplied in my OP. Front Fog lamps, as they are set low down and are invariably directed to the road immediatly in font of the driver, are not in any way causing distress to on coming drivers. The mere fact that front fogs are not dipable, would convince even the dumbest plod out there. Put it this way, I'd have my day in court to humiliate him if he persisted in booking me.

Side lights are compulsary, driving lights are compulsary, front fogs are not. Hence entry class models are bereft of them. They are additions to the obligatory front facing lights, a manufacture may for identification/ advertising purposes define them as fog llights, But you can call or use them as you want, without fear of falling fowl of legislation relating to the obligatory front facing lights.

Edit: I don't want the thread to end there, I want my idea of using the fogs as Drl's put to the test, both in application and legality. After all I'm only proffering my interpitation, and opinions, and as such I want them testing. No personal offence will be taken, nor intended in my replys to same.

[artscot79]

no im not wrong mate it is an offence to use youre front fogs when not necessary

Front fog lights are often confused with driving lights. However they
differ from driving lights in that they must operate independently of
headlights. Driving lights may only operate in conjunction with high
beam headlights. Also the beam pattern and illumination range of the two
are quite different.

It
is illegal to use fog lights in clear visibility and misuse of such
lights can result in a fixed penalty being issued by the police.

to fit drl s in the location of the fogs you must still have fog lights which work independantly of the drls and vice versa

The rear lights are not fog lights but are "High intesity rear lights"
for use in fog or poor visabilty. The front fog lights (sometimes called
driving lights) should only be used in fog or falling snow and if below
21" from the ground and illegal for use otherwise.

It is an offence to use fog lights unless visibility is reduced to 100m
or less, and doing so can attract a £30 fixed penalty notice because of
the danger it poses to other drivers who may be dazzled or distracted.
However, with front fog lights now commonplace on UK roads due to
manufacturers incorporating them on an increasing number of vehicles as
standard, nearly one in ten motorists (8 per cent) admitted to using
high intensity fog lights outside of these circumstances.

http://www.swiftcover.com/about/press/fog-lights/

as i said i have it on good faith from a traffic cop

[artscot79]

read the highway code mate drivers must not Use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced. You
must switch them off when visibility improves to avoid dazzling other
road users.

Use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other
road users, including pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders

If you can see further than 100m (roughly the length of a football
pitch) then your fog lights should remain off, and if they are not then
you are breaking the law and could face a £30 fixed penalty notice.”

[catch]

Well here we have a perfect example of old outdated legislation. When the highway code was written, DRL's where not around. Fog lamps by and large where an after market addition. Indeed no self respecting boy racer, I know I had my own motor back in1963. Would have a rack full of spotlighs/fog lights bedecking his motor, some being as big as sideplates, nay small dinner plates in some cases.

The irony is there are vehicles sporting DRL's that ommit more light than, some of the fog lamp bulbs that are on sale.

Edit.

Looks like it's back to the drawing board then :( may even write to some manufactures, asking why I see some of their products sold as DRL/ Fog Lamps?

Would not be so bad if the LED's on the aftermarket DRL's could be sold as seperate items, and the DRL units so designed to accept same.

[Stoney871]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/made

[catch]

Not giving up that easy on this one,

surely the interpitation is in regard to using fogs at night in non fog conditions.

Fogs, especially those set well down on the front bumper don't dazzle in daylight. Such LED lamps used during the day are can be considered as DRL's. Fit an DRL controller and they are switched off automatically when you switch your side lights on.

It is not compulsary to have or use front facing fog lamps, but if configured as described above, and still leaving the actual OEM fog lamp switch wired as standared, it would enable you over ride the controller and use said lamps as fog lamps in foggy conditions .......................simples

The emphasis has to be on the wording, in regard to dazzeling oncoming drivers.

And in that regard, evidence would have to be presented that, that was indeed case. As the burden of proof of your guilt lays with the Prosecutor. Hence the term "innocent until proven guilty " You could provide proof via a certified automotive engineer, that it was not the case. What cannot speak cannot lie, empirical evidence trumps opinion every time.

Law for the most part is the application of common sense, in regard to that which is written. Why else would the courts be full of Barristers

[artscot79]

theres no argument on interpretation its illegal to use fogs front or rear in the daytime when weather does not permit its really that simple most manufacturers selling these products do so illegaly or state they are not for road use the law outdated or not is specific now its up to the individual but if caught they can order you to have the car put back to standard by a garage and re motd to prove it

to the police its simple if you have youre fogs on when they shouldnt you will be fined you can argue they are drls they will look at the car and say no they were factory fitted fog lights so youre still driving with fogs since you adapted the standard equipment to break the law other than that only newer cars are approved and passed as having drls fitting them to an older car does not mean they are legal as that car was not approved with them as standard equipment the police are well aware of this mate

prove what in court the police have cameras on the vehicle and they are trained to know the difference trust me i know people who have done it and been busted for it and no explanation or argument will get you out of it new cars with fog drls work on 2 seperate lamps either singaly or seperate there is a dedicated fog light and a drl to the side or inside the housing on a seperate circuit thats why they get away with it youre car has one dedicated fog light to use it as anything other than a fog is not allowed as it was fitted that way as standard if a car wasnt fitted with fogs then fine thats how it cam eand it wasnt compulsary where the car did come with them you cant alter tham from being what they are you can remove them

[Stoney871]

It is most definitely illegal to use fog lights (whether front or rear) when conditions are not conducent to their use.

Furthermore it is categorically illegal to use them in a manner for which they were not intended or to modify them to be used in a manner other than in accordance with the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989.

[artscot79]

thats what i said lol ^_^

[Stoney871]

Indeed.

[catch]

Sorry mate, I reckon your wrong on so many levels.

I reiterate front fog lamps are not mandatory

The mere fact a lamp housing has been installed on a vehicle at the time of manufacture, and is commonly know [for identification purposes amoungst other definitions] as a fog lamp. Does not in it's self make it a fog lamp , it is a combination of the reflective surfaces within that structure, and more importantly type and intensity of the lamp installed within, that defines what it is.

Quote the Swift article:

nearly one in ten motorists (8 per cent) admitted to using, high intensity fog lights outside of these circumstances.

end quote

The Mk 2.5 comes with fog lamps installed with a wattage of 55w, the ones refered to in the swift article are no doubt 80w or even 100w offerings. I'm looking at installing 7.5w LED's

And using your interpitation, I could buy an entry level Studio Focus, without manufacture installed "fog lamps"

Then buy two lamp housings, fit them with 7.5w H8 DRL's, complete with a DRL controller, and it somehow becomes a totaly different animal. Than it would be the if same modifications where undertaken on a Titanium specd Focus!

If a duck takes up residence in a pig sty, it does not by definition become a pig

edit:

If the law states otherwise then the law is an !Removed!, it needs updating.

IMHO better Plod pursued, TDCI owners who are defrauding the Exchequer by removing the DPF, whilst at the same time contributing to air pollution

Quote the article:

Air pollution is now second only to smoking as a killer in the UK, yet as

a nation we are failing to meet targets on reducing emissions. end quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/b01s7twg

edit edit:

it makes as much sense as this website !removing! the word that is the name given to a four legged animal also considered to be stupid. :D

Edited April 2, 2014 by catch

[IINexusII]

how about these: drl as a ring outside the fog lamp. they are super pricey though http://www.sw-tuning.de/en/headlights/taillights/lights/FORD/Transit/foglights-Transit/LED-Fog-lights-with-LED-DRL-R87-for-Ford-Focus-Mk2-08-11-Transit-06-15-Focus-ST-04-11::28292.html

[Stoney871]

I am of course aware that front fog lights are not mandatory on all cars however if fitted as such then they must not be used for anything other than what they were designed for.

If you were to totally disconnect them from the front fog light switch and connect them with a dedicated switch or relay then you will be ok but having them dual -connected so as to serve as DRL and Fog light then they are not in accordance.

The lights shown above with the LED ring around the fog light are acceptable as long as they are seperately fused/wired/operated.

The key point is that if a car is stopped for the apparrent offence of using fog lights when not required and the dash light for fogs is illuminated/fog switch is activated then an offence has been committed.

What you must also take into consideration is that rear fog lights have a definitive minimum visibility range where the lights are required by law however front fog lights do not have a definitive distance.

The law simply states that they should be used when visibility is basically very poor.

P.S, the swear filter is set by management in order to keed this club child/work friendly and as such some words that can be used with alternative connotations are also included.

P.P.S, I do have better things to do than pull people for using fog lights when not necessary however the plonkers that keep doing so hinders me from doing so.

If I had a pound for every time I heard the phrases "Haven't you goy anything better to do?" or "Why don't you go after 'real' criminals?" I would be rich beyond the dreams of Avarice however when I see an offence being committed (no matter how trivial some may find them) then I am duty bound to deal with the situation.

I can't choose which offences to disregard or which ones are uber important, In my books an offence is an offence- pure and simple.

If offenders stopped committing 'trivial' crimes then maybe I could concentrate on more serious things like the odd robbery or murder possibly?

[catch]

I am of course aware that front fog lights are not mandatory on all cars however if fitted as such then they must not be used for anything other than what they were designed for.

If you were to totally disconnect them from the front fog light switch and connect them with a dedicated switch or relay then you will be ok but having them dual -connected so as to serve as DRL and Fog light then they are not in accordance.

The lights shown above with the LED ring around the fog light are acceptable as long as they are seperately fused/wired/operated.

The key point is that if a car is stopped for the apparrent offence of using fog lights when not required and the dash light for fogs is illuminated/fog switch is activated then an offence has been committed.

Finally a woking solution, as I said in my OP, the Fogs are in reallity redundent given how often I've had to use them. I happy with the solution .

Of course, reading the legislation according to Arthur, you cannot use factory fitted fog lamps for any other use, nor can you modifiy them in any way, And that to me was Clive was the ludicrious part of the legislation. But you definition of things is common sense in action.

P.P.S, I do have better things to do than pull people for using fog lights when not necessary however the plonkers that keep doing so hinders me from doing so.

If I had a pound for every time I heard the phrases "Haven't you goy anything better to do?" or "Why don't you go after 'real' criminals?"

But of course I never said any of those things, nor implied it, me old muker

Right Clive I believe you have done a guide to taking out the centre storage section on the Mk 2.5, would appreciate a link mate.

Fit my Lockwoods today

So the DRL's are back on the List, thanks for the heads up

I knew this thread could bear fruit and it did, a much chear option has been found for those wanting to become more visiable to predestrians.

[Stoney871]

Right Clive I believe you have done a guide to taking out the centre storage section on the Mk 2.5, would appreciate a link mate.

Which bit are you referring to- The whole centre console, the 'garage door', or just the top panel of the console?

Links to all my guides are visible under my posts when viewed on a PC.

[catch]

Ah got it mate, it was the one between the passenger and drivers seats. I'm going to install a 12 vot auxilary socket in the concealed dash top storage bin, like James did for his sat nav. He did it in his Mk2 but refered in his guide to you doing one for the Mk 2.5, in regard to getting at the socket cable in the storage bin twixt the front seats.

Just orded cable, socket, assorted connectors, switch, hole cutting set, piggy back fuse jumpers and the like. All I need for the front parking aid is an iluminated switch as I have the rest of the kit. But what with the mudflaps, sill protectors and heater knobs I've spent just over £158 all ready

But like I say as the DRL's are back on the list, I'll be buying again tonight, £24 intotal for the 7.5 watt Cree LED lamps, and a UK sourced control relay and harness. If I'm prepared to wait for a slow boat from China docking can be had for £14..........

The heater knobs were ordered on 30th March, update email says they will be with me 14th March to 2nd May..............3rd of May I'll be on my jollies in Cornwall. So I reckon I'll stump up the £24, and get these jobs done while I've got the inclination to titivate my new motor. After the hols I may be to laid back to be bothered :D

[catch]

Nexus,

Yes indeed, well dear at circa £231..................the £24 reconfigure will do me just fine.