S-Max 2.0 Tdci Engine Malfunction Light

[iantt]

if its going into limp mode, surely theres a dtc being triggered, is it at a ford dealer now?

[dave49]

Yeah goes into limp mode with esp light no dtc triggered it with dealer we bought from not a ford dealer.

[Tdci-Peter]

If they used a standard OBD2 scanner, it probably would not find DTCs related to the ESP system. Almost certainly some codes will be present if light is on, as Ian says.

You need a garage with Ford IDS, or you can almost certainly do a full diagnosis using Forscan.

You will find a lot about ELM327 & Forscan on this site, which together provide a very comprehensive diagnosis & maintenance tool. Post here if you want more info.

Note: Simply reading the codes can do no harm, and does not change anything. Just do not reset the codes (and you would have to ask the scanner to do this) if you are going to take the car to a garage.

See:

http://www.spanglefish.com/TunnelratElectronics/index.asp?pageid=516992

you will also need a program called Forscan, its free and you can get it from

http://forscan.org/download.html

[jeebowhite]

Click got an error on your car in my signature, that had a full guide.

As to the car, injectors can be intermittent, for example if it's an electrical connectivity issue, or if it's a fuel pressure issue

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[dave49]

That's it had enough of this !Removed! rubbish now.  picked car up today after being in garage for 3 weeks within 2 hrs of having it back again it goes into limp mode esp light just had a new boost solenoid put in. Just had about as much as I can take with it. back to dealers it goes.

 

[johnny76]

Hi all, Has anyone managed to find to find a fix for this? 

I've been having the same trouble for the past 10 months. Car loses power, goes into limp mode, comes up engine malfunction, transmission service required and ESP light comes on. Sometimes there are error codes but they are usually different, one was for throttle body stuck open, another was for turbo actuator stuck closed and one was for torque signal.

To date i have changed fuel filter, throttle control body, EGR valve, MAF sensor and have updated the software. Sometimes it fixes it for days, other times only hours. I have used a turbo cleaner (the type you add to fuel, ARCHOIL) but thats really only because i was getting desperate! Ive had the automatic box checked but ive been told by two garages that its unlikely a fault with the transmission but more likely a fault with the engine and that the transmission is not getting enough power to do its job.

Just before i lose power there is a noise which sounds like a very loud fan, i will only hear this if im driving slow or stopped, when i turn off the engine its like a turbine whinning down.

Also i have noticed it seems to be effected by where i get diesel, cheap diesel it happens more often, at its worst seven times in 10 miles. Good diesel i can get over 200 miles before it happens

My car is the smax 2.0 130BHP automatic

I really hoping somebody has an answer or at least point me in the right direction.

Thank for reading,

John

[Tdci-Peter]

57 minutes ago, johnny76 said:

Car loses power, goes into limp mode, comes up engine malfunction, transmission service required and ESP light comes on. Sometimes there are error codes but they are usually different

If you are using a generic scanner, it probably will not read ESP or ABS related fault codes. (ESP is part of the ABS system.), nor will it read all transmission module codes.

You need a powerfull, Ford specific system like Forscan. See my post of 27 June above here, and see Jame's guide:

http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=21196

The variety of codes you have already seen suggests a possible communications error between the electronic modules. The car's main CAN bus (HS-CAN) is a possible cause. This, physically, is just a pair of wires that links several modules together. There are various connectors it passes through, and joints hidden in the wiring looms.

An in-depth diagnostic scan may give some clue as to whether this is the fault, or if is is something else. This thread contains a number of similar but different situations, with different causes & cures.  You have tried the software reset/reload, & a lot of other things, I hear.

Peter.

[johnny76]

Thanks for the reply.

I have brought the car to my local Ford dealer and they updated the software with there scanners and at first diagnosted the EGR, after that i brought it to my local garage (non ford) just because it was to expensive to keep going back to Ford, for Ford to check for errors they are charging nearly 100!

Every now and then i check for error codes using a modified ELM327 interface using FORSCAN and there is usually but not always a commincation error. Below is the last time i did a scan using forscan when i had the turbo error. 

===DTC P2263:73-E8===
Code: P2263 - Turbo / Super Charge Boost System Performance

Additional Fault Symptom:
 - Actuator Stuck Closed

Status: 
 - DTC Maturing - Intermittent at Time of Request
 - Malfunction Indicator Lamp is On for this DTC
 - Test not complete

Module: Powertrain Control Module

Diagnostic Trouble Code details

Possible causes :

An electrical fault in the Turbocharger control circuit.

MAP sensor electrical failure.

Inspect connectors for signs of damage, water ingress, corrosion, etc.

If the code is set at idle renew the turbocharger. If the code is not set at idle investigate faults with the MAP.

===END DTC P2263:73-E8===

===DTC P0700:00-6C===
Code: P0700 - Transmission Control System (MIL Request)

Status: 
 - Previously Set DTC - Not Present at Time of Request
 - Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC
 - Test not complete

Module: Powertrain Control Module===END DTC P0700:00-6C===

===DTC P2263-C===
Code: P2263 - Turbocharger/Supercharger Boost System Performance

Status: 
 - Confirmed - mailfunction is confirmed 

Module: On Board Diagnostic II===END DTC P2263-C===

===DTC U3001:00-08===
Code: U3001 - Control Module Improper Shutdown

Status: 
 - DTC Maturing - Intermittent at Time of Request
 - Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Anti-Lock Brake / Traction Control Module===END DTC U3001:00-08===

===DTC U0401:68-48===
Code: U0401 - Invalid Data Received From ECM/PCM

Additional Fault Symptom:
 - Event Information

Status: 
 - DTC Maturing - Intermittent at Time of Request
 - Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC
 - Test not complete

Module: Anti-Lock Brake / Traction Control Module===END DTC U0401:68-48===

===DTC P1719:00-E8===
Code: P1719 - Engine Torque Signal

Status: 
 - DTC Maturing - Intermittent at Time of Request
 - Malfunction Indicator Lamp is On for this DTC
 - Test not complete

Module: Transmission Control Module

Diagnostic Trouble Code details

This DTC is set when the following condition occurs.

Invalid or missing data for engine torque

Possible causes are:

(i) PCM

TCM

Check the CAN connections and wiring to the PCM module.

do not replace the module when this DTC is set

Clear the DTC and repeat the self-test.

===END DTC P1719:00-E8===

[Tdci-Peter]

10 minutes ago, johnny76 said:

usually but not always a commincation error.

Forscan is a very powerful tool, but in cases like this, the results need careful analysis over a period of time.

P2263 does sound rather specific. The DTC is in the pcm, and the Turbo actuator is directly driven by the pcm. But the key term is "performance", this will be indirect, via some other sensor like the MAP, as it says. However as the MAP is also connected to the pcm, module communications does not seem to be involved.

P0700 seems to be a request from tcm to pcm, to light the mil. Could be Comms.

U3001: could be comms, no shut down data from pcm to abs?

U0401 & P1719: Probably comms.

Have CAN bus (CAN bus in DTC title) errors ever come up?

It looks like you will have to keep monitoring for positive, or repeated errors.

In the meantime, there is a simple test that can be done on the HS-CAN bus:

There is no need to disconnect the battery. At least on my car the CAN bus went off about 30 sec after turning the ignition off. The PCM stays active for a while, I can hear it testing the EGR valve, and maybe doing other things, then it powers down and the bus goes dead. You can check with a voltmeter, CAN lines (6-14 in diagnostic connector) will be 1v to 3v when active, 0v when off.

Stick a couple of suitable probes (un-bent paper clips can work quite well) in the diagnostic connector pins 6-14, put a DMM across the pair on voltage range, turn ignition on, note reading, turn ignition off, wait till voltage drops to zero (+/- 1 or 2 mV), switch to resistance range to check for 60 ohms.

 

The HS-CAN bus goes from PCM to IC via the underbonnet modules like ABS & TCM.

As both the PCM and the IC (Cluster) contain 120 ohm resistors between the two CAN lines, it is quite easy to detect whether all joints are intact at least up to these resistors. If the bus is intact, the two 120 ohm resistors in parallel make 60 ohms. There are several connectors in this chain. And both resistors are vital to proper data transfer, so problems in the IC could cause those comms failures.

This will not test other modules on the bus, nor internal faults in IC or PCM.

As whatever fault you have seems to be intermittent, it is worth often repeating this 60ohm test.

(Not really relevant here, but the MS-CAN bus goes from IC to BCM (aka GEM), via body related modules, and can be tested the same way, but on pins 3 & 11 on the diagnostic connector.)

Peter.

 

 

 

[Tdci-Peter]

On 24/07/2016 at 3:21 PM, johnny76 said:

Every now and then i check for error codes using a modified ELM327 interface using FORSCAN

Any progress or changes?

Peter.

[sinfield4]

hello having same problem.i am going to try this http://www.talkford.com/community/topic/162803-limp-mode-and-p2263-error/

hope this helps and saves you money

[Brileen]

Help. Please. We have an intermitant series of problems with our 59 plate smax. Sometimes there the engine cuts out when driving along it then is OK on restart. Sometimes there is a small judder the Rev counter goes down to zero and the ESP light comes on the car is drivable still as the engine does not cut out . On restart thhe light goes out  and the Rev counter works. At no time is there any error message -  before or after a restart of the engine. We did disconnect the battery for an hour 2 weeks ago but last night after travelling for about a mile in the village a judder ESP  light came on and then the power went. The engine took about 12 attempts to restart . Then the journey was completed without further incident but no error messages

[Tdci-Peter]

12 hours ago, Brileen said:

Help. Please. We have an intermitant series of problems with our 59 plate smax. Sometimes there the engine cuts out when driving along it then is OK on restart. Sometimes there is a small judder the Rev counter goes down to zero and the ESP light comes on

The ESP system is complex, and uses information from a variety of sources. This means it is vulnerable to communication or bus related problems.

The first thing I would suggest is to get the Forscan system I mentioned in my Jun 27 post above. There will be error codes in the car (DTCs), and this system will almost certainly find them. A garage diagnosis will cost up to £100 per go, and some of the codes may have gone by the time of diagnosis.

With some error codes, it may be possible to go to a good garage, though most bad garages will absolutely Hate the idea of you doing any sort of diagnostic check, it reduces their chances to rip customers off! (*)

People on this site may be more able to assist with the extra information. These intermittent electrical faults can be hard to pin down. There is rarely a true common cause.

Did the immobiliser system come on when trying to restart, or any other warnings?

(* : Apologies for me being cynical about garages, but I have been dealing with some rather bad cases of incompetent garages lately. Not all garages are bad, by any means!)

Peter.

 

 

 

 

[Brileen]

Thanks Peter. We will get a diagnostic test done. If we have any joy we'll  post again.

[Sweetcorne]

Help anyone please I have the same problem however fuel rail and pump sensor changed genuine ford fuel filter fitted , system up date and reset carried out but still goes into limp mode mainly when going up hill.when it goes in to limp mode the two codes read large fuel leak and small fuel leak it's baffling me HELP

[Tdci-Peter]

On 10/14/2017 at 12:04 PM, Sweetcorne said:

goes into limp mode mainly when going up hill.when it goes in to limp mode the two codes read large fuel leak and small fuel leak

DTCs P0093 & P0094 (Large & small fuel leak) are very badly selected codes!

It seems that they just mean there is an unexpected drop in, or lack of, fuel pressure in the common rail. A leak is one, rather unlikely, possibility, but there are loads of other causes. It seems to be a bit of a Mondeo / SMax thing, I have not heard of these codes being used on the Focus.

Going up hill would mean the tank is lower than the engine, and any air leaks into the fuel pipes from the tank would get worse. Air getting into the fuel is certainly a cause of HP fuel pressure drops. (In most modern Fords, the main fuel pump has to suck fuel from the tank.)

But it is much more likely that the "up hill" is more related to engine power, and hence fuel consumption. The pump pressure control valves are one possibility, and excess leak-back from the injectors is another.

A good diagnostic system can record common rail pressure (FRP) and usually also the control valve demand, which can give some clues. An injector leak-off test is also possible. Unfortunately, fuel pressure problems can be hard to pin down once the simple things like fuel filter are eliminated. And expensive to fault find by the replacement of parts method!

There is a list of causes in: https://www.obd-codes.com/p0093

Not all are relevant to Fords, there is no tank pump usually. And I would add fuel tank vent system to that list.

[thackleycars18]

On 01/11/2015 at 4:08 PM, Claire22 said:

Hi Jop,

We took it to an AutoElectric place who resolved it.

They, I think took it to Ford (or did this themselves) but got the Electrics / Software reset and upgraded and it's sorted the issue and not happened since.

Much cheaper than getting a Turbo done and was cheap getting the software reset and updated.

Hope that helps ?

 

[thackleycars18]

Hi guys same problem 2.0 s max tdci changed air flow sensor refurb turbo with new sensor n Westgate 2 weeks later code back on but seems car not heating up either but runs well wen light not on any elp please

[Didder44]

From all the months n moons of having the same issue and Googling it..... bizarrely (some may say.... and I was sceptical) glow plugs!!!!!! Replace them! Startup in the morning, perfect. Random just over 2000 revs at ANY speed (errr 69 mph plus) I do not get the grunts and wobbles anymore. So much more smooth too. Garage local to me replaced all 4 for way less than £100. Worthy task-and goodness me the results.....

[Sarmitage]

My 2012 smax has just (yesterday) come back from its 75k Miles service. Got in it to drive it today and serious lack of power or acceleration. Then the engine malfunction light has come on.

any advice would be gratefully received! 

[jorgemef]

Hi,
I have same sympthoms and checking dtc I get P0380 allways. Can bad glow plugs do this?
Thanks,
Jorge

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[Tdci-Peter]

On 12/29/2018 at 4:04 PM, jorgemef said:

have same sympthoms and checking dtc I get P0380 allways. Can bad glow plugs do this?

On these PSA engines (1.6 & 2.0 TDCI), it does seem that the glowplugs can have all sorts of mysterious symptoms and effects. There are loads of threads about this. On my 1.8, I think you could replace them with bolts to fill the 'oles, with no effect apart from bad starting at below 10C.

I have heard they are used for emissions control while the engine is warm and running, as well as for cold starting. So for P0380, which is a glowplug code, starting with the plugs is a cheap and sensible approach.

[jorgemef]

Replaced the plugs and engine works better but engine malfunction still appears at the time regeneration conditions are met. Can I trigger regeneration with forscan to check symptoms without going to highway?

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[Tdci-Peter]

12 hours ago, jorgemef said:

Can I trigger regeneration with forscan to check symptoms without going to highway?

Yes, there is a forced regen facility. It is very noisy, takes quite a long time, and uses bit of fuel. It is only likely to be successful if there was a good reason why a road based regen was not possible, like if a car is not road legal. If there is some sensor or dpf blockage problem that is preventing road regens, it will also prevent a forced regen. 

It is worth trying, even if only for diagnostic purposes.

See:

 

[jorgemef]

Going to test mode I found following DTC in this order: C15100; C42268; C41568; C41668; C42068. Don't know if these comm problems may lead to failed regeneration. Have to check with Elm to see if anything else appears.

Stability control light also lights on when regeneration fails.