Air Conditioning

[jeebowhite]

I would email them and call them and advise that under the sale of goods act, you are entitled to a 6 month period of guarantee and that you wish to excercise your rights under the sale of goods act to have this vehicle reviewed.

If you need to quote anything, quote section 14 - satisfactory quality. Advise that the vehicle is now going to cost you money to be diagnosed and repaired and that the sale of goods act states that for the first 6 months of purchase the burdon of proof that the fault lies with the vehicle is assumed to have been a fault laying with the vehicle on the day of purchase. Advise that you are more than happy to reject the vehicle on this specification unless the vehicle is repaired to a satisfactory quality, advising that whilst 3 months warranty was offered, they still have an obligation to fulfil the sale of goods act as mentioned.

[Valleyboy22]

Brill thanks will do. Let u know how I get off.

[sonic113]

James i like where you coming from there. I thought that if they said 3 months then that was it but if sales of good act is stating 6 months that's good to know. I will have to read up on the sales of good act because it seems that it may be handy to know where you stand on some occasion when their a problem and may come in handy with anything not just cars.

good luck Christopher hope all works out.

[jeebowhite]

Yeah I asked the question and got the support of TheDarkKnight" off this forum, hes studying this little gem for when he passes his exams and starts sticking it to the company man!

The main factors you need to know with the sale of goods act is:

1) any item sold from new should be without severe defect and covered by standard with a warranty, but the terms can be reasonable and offered by the manufacturer (for example, you buy a 40" TV and find a shed load of dead pixels, that needs to be replaced, but the company may say that up to 5 dead pixels is acceptable)

2) Any used item sold must be of safe and useable condition and without serious defect, and must be of satisfactory quality (this is where section 14 comes in to play) - so you cannot buy a car from a garage, and 3 days later the gearbox, engine and airbags all explode and your left to foot the bill.

3) Used vehicles specifically have a 6 month period in which any defects that appear in this time period from the date of sale / collection are assumed to have been there since the day the vehicle was sold. Its down to the dealer / trader to prove that the defect was not there, in which case 90% of the time they will just do the repair, as an engineers report ontop of diagnostics and repairs makes it impractical

4) If you are out of pocket for a defect, it is reasonable to ask for a full reimbursement and to then negotiate with the seller in order to refund part of the fee if not all. I had this recently when my mondy's compressor went up the spout. I had it diagnosed, confirmed, repaired and regassed. I requested the diagnostics fee to be reimbursed as I wouldnt have needed to pay for it if it wasnt a problem which was reimbursed. I also asked for the regass fee to be reimbursed, but was advised that this was seen as a consumable item, and to be frank, as much as I wanted the full refund, I wasnt going to bother taking the case to court over £60.

5) You can claim under the SOGA after the time period elapses of the standard cover (new car standard manufacturer warranty, used car 6 months legal rights etc). However, you would be expected to pay for an independant assessment of the vehcicle, by a qualified and certified professional. If the report supports your case, then you can have the vehicle repaired by the dealer / manufacturer and all costs (such as the report) reimbursed as the defect is seen and proven to have been there when you took ownership of the vehcle.

6) You can reject goods within a reasonable time period if they fail to meet expectations, presuming there is sufficient reasoning. For example, saying you dont like that wheel is scratched so you want a refund wont stand up, however, if you are not satisfied that the air con is sold as working, fails to be, and the trader will not repair it and subsequently breaches their obligations under the SOGA, then you can reject the vehicle and request a full refund, and can also claim for any assosciated costs (for example, tax disc reimbursement, if you live in a permit area and where charged a fee to change the number plate, this could also be requested) but this would be down to negotiation. The dealer could state that the amount of miles you put on the clock has halved the value, in which case you would need to go through an independant assessment, review and report, and then look to claim these back. Most of the time though, if you get this far, you should be prepared to take the case to the small claims court, as not all dealers will roll over, especially if they are an independant trader, and would be willing to fight you for it.

Generally, these are the key factors, there are a lot of other stipulations and protections and the SOGA generally covers every item out there. but to keep it short and sweet - anything new should be in safe working order and without reasonable defect, anything used covered by the SOGA should be of satisfactory quality considering the age and expected condition of the vehicle and without severe defect. I am currently going through a second claim for the airbag, as I have the airbag warning light, this has been an intermittent issue since early in the cars ownership and given that its an MOT failure, the trader has acknowledged and authorised diagnostics and hopefully subsequent repair of the vehicle.

The act is huge and covers a lot of information, generally though, my philosophy is this "if you can't scald them with science, then you baffle them with bull faeces" - i.e. if you dont know the entire act verse for verse, just know a little bit and argue the point. Most of the time, the person you are dealing with wont know anymore about the SOGA than you, and so will get scared off by the fact that you seem to know what your talking about, and most of the time will be more likely to cave in to your reasonable requests - getting legal representation would cost them, and it would be too much hassle and expense to them to argue and drag it out.

These are lessons I personally learned the hard way!

[Valleyboy22]

Evan Halshaw replied saying they looking into it. Will play the sales act if they say no. Gutted more that anything because I feel the air conditioning should not go considering the age of the car. Know it's not a new one, but it's not old old.

[Valleyboy22]

Hi Chris,

I have checked the vehicle health check sheet prior to its sale, the air condition was checked and working in the correct manner, as the Car is out of its warranty I am sorry that we are unable to assist you with your request .

Regards,

This is what they said.

[jeebowhite]

You should have been given a copy of this at the time of sale? if it has a tick then you would be arguing a losing battle, however, if your copy does not, then they could be calling your bluff.

I would reply and advise that you have not been able to get the air con to work suitably since taking ownership of the vehicle and therefore believe that it was not working at the time of delivery, and you have been provided no conclusive proof that it was working at the time you took the keys, therefore request them to diagnose and repair the issue free of charge.

[Valleyboy22]

Did not have a health report when got the car so I have now requested one and see what comes bk.

[jeebowhite]

check carefully for any difference in the boxes, they will probably scan it so check "just in case" they have tip ex'd it out and drawn a new tick in the "yes" box, they might possibly be trying to pull a fast one, alternatively, it might have developed the problem since you got it, in which case, you still have some way to go before you foot the bill entirely. You might be able to get them to agree to split the cost, if not cover it entirely.

How many miles have you driven with the aircon as it is? I reported it to the trader on mine within 200 miles, which is reasonable enough, if you have done thousands, they might argue the case, but all you can do is upset them (worst case) best case is negotiate a reduced or free repair!

[Valleyboy22]

What a shocker I request a copy via email early afternoon and nothing so far. I have done around 2000 miles since had it. Give them until lunch time tomorrow and mail again. I'm hoping they not got copy and will go in in my favour, but I'm not lucky I suppose.

[jeebowhite]

I would push for the update and get them to send it, they can easily go to a cupboard, pull it out the file, tell you the details, but they cant stick it in the copier and forward you a digital copy? sounds a bit suss to me! sounds like they just assumed "we would have checked it and the light probably turned on so its probably fine" and used that as a backout.

Dont let it drop, keep sending the emails, phone them and speak to the person on the end of the phone, better still, drop by unexpected and ask to see the original slip and ask them to qualify exactly what tests where done, and what temperature the air conditioning pumped out at and ask for evidence. If they cant supply any of this, then you have the right to request they repair it as per the sale of goods act as they are unable to qualify and prove without evidence that the issue has developed in your care.

2000 miles is a lot, so they may query why you have not raised it sooner, however, I would argue that you are requesting within the alloted timeframe (6 months per the SOGA) and inform them that a less than satisfactory answer (after you have been told "we cant find the papers) will result in you taking your request further with the local Trading Standards office.

[Valleyboy22]

Well I request a health report and also asked if the temperature of the air con was also recorded. I was advised that the person who is dealing with this issue is back Thursday so we wait n see.

[jeebowhite]

stalling tactics... even if they say "of course it was" they still have no written evidence and you have a car that has failed within 6 months, either way, I am sure that Trading Standards will be on your side.