Ford Injector Issues 1.8 Tdci - Ford Wont Tell You About Them - Must Read

[FOCA]

Note to newby (I've already been in contact with pezza371887) - my injector codes end in 3 (1.8 TDCi 09) and I had one fail after intermittent problems, but car has done 146k miles so not that bad. I'm not defending Ford but I would hesitate to agree these are necessarily 'faulty injectors'. As the Americans say "your mileage may vary" :-) so actually what is your mileage?

Ford dealer replaced the faulty injector, with a 'new' one ending in 2, then straight away another injector failed, this was also replaced with one ending in 2 by another garage. Now wondering about having calibrations updated as this hasn't been done.

Something that caused me some confusion, and I think I've resolved - I believe the Siemens injectors on cars built from around 2006 onwards are NOT individually coded, but the PCM does have calibrations set for them. I am interested whether they can be set differently for each injector as I have mix of xxxxx2 and xxxxx3 injectors now. Not expecting a reply on that one on this forum...

If you reset your ECU it may help the ECU adapt to the new injectors

You can do this by disconnecting the battery (watch you dont loose your radio codes) or the fuse for the ECU for 1/2 an hour, - once re-started the ECU should "re-learn" to the new characteristricts

[Jim_Cambridge]

I've just asked another a Ford Expert another question and have been recommended not to do this if the car is running fine, because it could cause some kind of problems (perhaps with other aspects of the engine). So I'll just keep driving and see how it goes, fingers crossed. And no more supermarket fuel as a precaution.

[pezza371887]

Got to work without any more "engine manfunction" errors however it drove like a bag of nails. Must have hicupped about 8-10 times when trying to accellerate.

Check the wiring before i left and cannot see anything damaged. I also had the engine running and wiggled all the wiring for the injectors and sensors close to it. Nothing changed.

I have recently had a new wiring loom in the engine bay due to the glow plug issue burning out the loom. I believe everything is new apart from the injector loom which is seperate.

It frustrates the hell out of me how intermittent this issue is, want to know why.

I do 350 miles a week just to get to work and back so why can I go weeks with nothing, not even a hickup then bam 4 engine malfunctions and 8 hickups in 2 days.

Going to chase Ford today to get my final quote with the discount applied.

I also tried to check the body of the Injectors to confirm the batch numbers, I cannot see the batch number on the short bit of the body anywhere. To be fair they are coated in rust however I cannot see where this should be. How would Ford have confirmed this to me? Anyone else able to see theirs and get a pic of exactly where it is?

Cheers

Allister

[pezza371887]

Ditto, going to run this tank of Sainsburys fuel down as low as possible then start fueling at a local BP garage.

Let me know how everyone else gets on with supermarket vs branded fuel.

[Jim_Cambridge]

Only thing I'd say... my problems got worse when I was almost at the end of my tank of Sainsburys e.g. 80 miles left. Could have been co-incidence of course...

[pezza371887]

The 2 times it had failed on me in the last few months I have filled up at Sainsburys,

First time I had literally just filled and this time I have bang on half a tank left.

[pezza371887]

Does anyone else on here have F-Super or Formidable.

Can anyone tell me if their EGRp reading move above 0? From what I have read this changes whether the EGR is open or shut. Mine sees to be at 0.0 even then reving the car.

Any thoughts?

[scouser27]

Just throwing in my 2p worth behind this.

Exact same symptoms here:

Changed Injector #1 after a P0201 error only to have P0203 and P0204 happen in the meantime. Car is drivable, once I don't go any further than about 15 minutes away from wherever I start.

I think that whenever I do come to replace it, this will definitely have me looking at a different manufacturer (read Japanese) as it's definitely no laughing matter to be caught in 3 lanes of 60MPH traffic whilst the car decides it'd prefer to operate in Limp Home mode.

[pezza371887]

Hi All,

Just an update VOSA are not interested in the injector issue, they dont deem it as a serious safety concern as per their guidelines. I beg to differ when im driving at 70MPH on the motorway and suddenly without warning it goes into limp mode.

@Scouser27 - Totally agree, im usually in the 3rd lane as I commute to Basingstoke from Southampton for work when it usually goes. I then have to try get across 3 lanes of rush our traffic to turn the ignition off and on.

I also spoke to my local dealer and the head office. Ford Motor Company have got the quote down from £1500 to £806inc VAT, and they want £120 to keep the injectors.

My local dealership confrimed that the issue that affects the injectors ending in '3' is an interittent electrical failure inside the injector. This explains I guess why 3 of mine have gone on seperate occassions and probably when it doesnt matter where you buy your fuel.

Happy I have got the price down but still not happy that Ford want me to pay for faulty parts they fitted... Joke.

Ford are going to call me Monday to see whether I am going to accept their wink wink "good will gesture" wink wink.... not sure what else i can do now.

Guy at VOSA said knowone else had raised concerns so might help if more of you affected complain about it.

The guys name is Martin Ryder - Martin.Ryder@vosa.gsi.gov.uk case is called "VSD 25572 - MISFIRE AND LOSS OF POWER". Drop him an email and explain you have the same issue and that you believe its dangerous and should be investigated.

[benny63]

Hi pezza.

I have just bought a 2008 registered 2009 focus 1.8 titanium with 34000 miles on clock and I have noticed quite loud engine noise and when changing from 1st to 2nd it seems to miss for a split second so if you wouldn't mind emailing me the article it would be most appriciated as I got a 2 year warranty off the dealer when I bought car.

did the computer update cure the problem.

cheers.

kev.

[pezza371887]

Hi All,

Just an update as I have been a bit quiet of late. A few of you had suggested changing where i fill up. Well i can tell you since changing from Sainsburys to BP i have had no "Engine Malfunctions" and about 3-4 tops hesitations which only happen when hammering the car a bit, usually 90+.... i know i know lol.

This leads me to think the fuel seems to have some part to play in the problem. I have had around 2 months or so without any issues going into limp mode. I must have covered around 2-3K since and filled up at least 5-6 times from BP with out any issues.

Ford have given up chasing me to find out when I want to take them up on their offer of discount as at the moment there is no way i would spend £800 on a car which appears to be driving OK.

The car does seem to have a seperate issue which I will log in another post.

Cheers guys

Allister

[pezza371887]

Hi All,

Thought I would pop an update up. Finally had to bite the bullet and replaced all 4 injectors on Tuesday at Hendy Ford Winchester. I took Ford up on their revised quote of £800 down from £1500 as on the Friday before on the M3 in rush hour traffic went into limp mode 7 times, then on Sunday on the M27 did it 3 times in the space of 2-3 miles.

I scanned it with F-Super2 and codes were all injector related so it had to be fixed, was getting dangerour.

Since Tuesday no issues, no hesitations, engine malfunction etc. Cars driven lovely and increased MPG, was averaging around 42mpg before and since leaving Winchester I have averaged 49.5mpg which is pretty good considering im due a service and its freezing at the moment.

I should also hopefully hear from VOSA in the next 2-3 weeks regarding the wiring loom complaint, apparently Fords Safety committee met a week ago to discuss the concern.

Cheers

Allister

[Jim_Cambridge]

An update from me also (Focus 1.8 TDCi, 2009, 146k miles). Less than 1000 miles after getting injectors 1 & 2 replaced, I got another glitch and limp mode (again after about 40 miles) which was cured by restarting engine. Code reader showed problem with injector no. 4 so I also bit the bullet and got both 3 & 4 replaced. Cost me £680 at Cambs Injector Services (only £60 more than I was quoted for one at Ford!). Only driven the car home so far, seems a bit smoother (less low-speed hesitations) but maybe I'm imagining it. If you don't see any more posts from me, then I'm having no problems :-)

Overall my advice is, if your 1.8 TDCi is high mileage, and gets these symptoms, best to get all 4 injectors replaced, if you can afford it. They are a part that wears out and yes Ford can be criticised for using a part with relatively short life (and high replacement cost) but hey, they don't sell cars at cost price so that they can go on for ever and we never need expensive parts...

[mark_bingham]

Hi All,

Looks like I have the exact same issue described in this thread.

Car is a 2009 Ford Focus TDCi 5 door diesel hatchback. Mileage is now about 68k.

I bought it from a small garage back in June 2013.

I noticed the odd misfire now and again, but no reason to return the car.

There were several consecutive misfires and an engine malfunction with LHM towards the end of 2013.

The malfunction stopped when I pulled over turned off the engine, waited a minute or two then restarted.

I assumed it was a random glitch and ignored it.

In 2014 / 2015 things have got worse - here's an overview:

2014.11.03 Limp Home Mode #2 (DTC Code was P0202)

2015.01.14 Limp Home Mode #3 (DTC Code was P0204)

2015.01.19 Limp Home Mode #4 (no new DTC Code)

2015.01.27 Limp Home Mode #5 (no new DTC Code)

2015.03.09 Limp Home Mode #6 & #7 (DTC Codes P0201 & P1201)

Back in Nov 2014 after LHM #2 I booked the car into Ford Sandicliffe at Hucknall to get them to fix the problem.

They couldn't find anything wrong with the car - said they'd applied a software update, and charged me £50.

I've tried to examine the injectors - can't see any codes, not even the dreaded 03 suffix.

Noticed that LHM only happens when the engine is warmed up to 90c, and also when I'm accelerating
from 50mph to 60-70 from 1500-2000 rpm.

After the last journey where it went in LHM twice in the same commute home I've decided the car is no longer safe to drive,
and I'm currently commuting to work by train.

Wondering if I can get Ford to replace the Injectors for £800 like Allister did - I don't fancy paying £1500.

Also wondering how much a specialist fuel injection garage would charge?

Mark

[Jim_Cambridge]

Bad luck Mark. Exactly the same symptoms as mine, hot engine, 1500-2000 rpm. The injector serial numbers should be written (etched?) near the top on the shiny barrel part IIRC. Yours is quite low mileage to go, about half mine at 145k (although for all I know, the previous owner could have replaced them previously, but I think unlikely). I paid £400 for one at Cambs Injector services (including diagnosis) and £700 for two more. If you can get them all done for less than £1000 you should jump at the chance... BTW don't get reconditioned injectors, get new ones.

Could I ask, where do you normally buy your fuel?

One bit of advice if you need to drive the car, try keeping the revs up, e.g. 4th gear on the motorway and not putting your foot right down. Worked for me most of the way from York to Cambridge... until I hit the roadworks!

[mark_bingham]

Thanks for the advice Jim - I'm not looking forward to driving it to the garage, when I get round to booking it in!

For what it's worth, I always get my diesel from Tesco's.
I'm hoping Allister will let me have a copy of the email he sent to Ford, so I can get a similar reduction.

I've seen the TSB 27/2012 dated 14/05/12, but there doesn't appear to be anything incriminating in it.

[Jim_Cambridge]

Supermarket fuel seems to be a common factor in these injector failures... not saying its just the fuel but maybe it means the injectors die quicker...

[1.8FocusTDCI]

Evening All,

My piece of !Removed! focus went into limp mode, "Engine Malfunction" 4 times this evening after doing a 35 miles motorway journey on the M27/M3. The car did the first one after getting off the motorway and then driving up a semi steep hill. Pulled over turned ignition off waited and cleared so carried on.

Repeated the process 4 times all in all getting home in a 1-2 miles stretch from the motorway to my house. Have taken a little vid on my phone of noise and dash so will upload to youtube and post on here so other can see what happens.

Question to you others that suffer from "engine malfunction" errors, do you get the orange light in the vid which I believe is stability control come up?

Allister

Hi Allister, Late reply to your post I know...!

I also (have) have had same issue. It comes in bouts like a flu and then goes away again. One evening last week I ended up on the side of the road 5 times in malfunction mode and yes also with Traction Control yellow warning light flashing ...its extremely dangerous as you only have seconds to realize whats happening and move to the side of the road assuming there is space to do so. Switching off ignition and restarting and then off again for another run of the gauntlet. My wife had the car the previous week and same happened to her...she had to walk back to the house as my phone was on silent ( was working late) and take other family car to work. She was not a happy camper...picture no sound and all of that...:-/ I am not a mechanic, I do have a degree in electronics so I am somewhat technically competent. I took my tools out and from info from forum I blanked off EGR valve with a home made blanking plate. Since I did this the car hasn't gone into Malfunction mode since although I have had a shudder or two since. I concluded that the engine was getting choked with a leaky EGR valve that wasn't closing fully after initial take off from cold and the engine would eventually choke from lack of oxygen. I am possibly hoping against hope here as my Focus is a 2008 reg with 246,000Km 152,000 Miles. The code on the top of the Injector does end in 3 but I am not sure what the code on the side of the Injector is, its suggested in earlier post that the Injector has to be removed to fully read this code. Should I be thankful that I have done decent milage without having all injectors replaced or should I expect Siemens Injectors to outlive the engine...not sure on this one.

One other piece of info I have may or may not be relevant....Focus was running great up to this bout of 'flu' but I had to have the rear trailing arm bushes replaced so while car was in garage I had mechanic replace diesel fuel filter with genuine ford filter. Replacing the rear trailing arm bushes required a lot of banging and hammering at the rear and also required rear end ABS sensors to be electrically disconnect. I have double checked these connections inside the rear wheels and pushed them home to made sure ECU is not sensing some abnormality from here. Just a thought..!

Brian

[Tarr7d218]

SOLVED--- sorry about long post.

Hi, thought I'd report back on my findings as not many people do follow ups and leave it open for everyone to worry.

It seems as though my problem HAS been solved...

Just to confirm that this issue is caused by the 'bad batch' of injectors produced in 2008-2009, it has been listed before but the injectors were in the focus, mondeo and other models produced in those years and the injector serial numbers end in a 3 which can be seen on the barrel.

there IS a tsb released but most garages won't apply or don't know about it as it's not common ground.... Although the recalibration can ease symptoms the fact that the injectors are pretty much faulty can't be solved by a simple update, so the bad news... the injectors inevitably will need replacing. However... You do NOT need to spend the £1500-£2000 that ford quote.

I have fixed my car for less than £200 was a bit of an experiment but ATLEAST I can confirm wot my problem and solution was. And here's how........

There are a couple of posts out there that suggest that these injectors do not need coding and this is definately true... There is many arguements to the contrary but these injectors DO NOT have seperate codes... Hence there is no reason why the injectors can't be replaced by yourself they are fairly easy to do but cleanliness and care is absolutely vital so do not attempt if you are not confident. So all that leaves is the cost of injectors.

The best way is to get a good set of remanufactured injectors usually about £150-£200 each so check on eBay! That's £600-£800 as opposed to £1500++

However as I was only experimenting I decided to buy a used set from a known working focus, BEWAREEE make sure the seller is reputable and they know what they are doing, the injectors need to be throughly clean and ideally the ends plugged or wrapped so no dirt ingress is allowed. My used set cost £160 plus you need brand new seals £6.

You need to make sure Ideally that you are not buying injectors from the same bad batch so look for a 2006/2007 preferably. They will be older but known to be working.

I found the injectors fairly easy to replace and I noticed the difference as soon as I started car, it now seems to start very easily and it struggled before, I was so nervous whilst the engine was warming up hoping that problems were solved and the rattles/vibrations/ misfiring Etc etc NEVER came! It drives superb! The tdci will never be a quiet motor but the problems I had before are gone!! I even seem to be getting 5-10mpg more. For the sake of £166? Bargain!

[vlad74360]

I have the same hesitation problem on a light throttle. I was informed that there was a batch of dodgy injectors by a Ford mechanic via Just Answers in May 2012 and yes they end in a 3. I had a engine management update carried out which reduced the problem but I think reduced the power.

My car was bought new in France so this seems to be a european wide problem. I have never receive any info about this directly from Ford.

[j22csh]

Hi All,

Its been a few months since a reply to this post, however I'm hoping someone can help.

As per the original poster, my focus began to present the exact issues described. Intermittent judder / miss-fire, this from time to time was throwing it into limp along with the esp light displayed. As per the original post and many others there was no consistency, completely random.

My Forscan was showing P0202 - Injector 2 open circuit...I also viewed the live data and the cylinder performance was inconsistent.....

My Dad is in the trade and checked wiring continuity where possible and all the connections to the Injectors, no apparent issues. Cable tied connections in the normal places..

We inspected the Injectors to notice that they were the 'faulty Siemens batch ending '3'....

After reading various replies on this post I plumped for 4 new injectors $$$$£££££££££, sure that this would cure the issue.

All 4 injectors changed, BANG still the same, if not more prominent! GRRRRR Recently, we have also done the following...

EGR Valve - blanked off.

New Cam Sensor

New Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor

New Fuel Filter

PCM reset

The problem is driving us round the twist, we're beginning to think it's wiring loom or PCM related issue, but don't want to throw more money at it if not sure.

Can anyone please help? Has anyone solved a similar issue?

Hoping for a response

Chris

[dv666]

While Forscan would probably have thrown this up when you tested the car, it might be worth looking at the glow plugs as a source of the problem ?. Just a thought if you've tried everything else.

[Halooo]

Hi Allister, are you able to please PM me the Bulletin. I have this issue - now have replaced 2 of my injectors!!

Hamish

[Mordey]

Hi guys, Theres was a huge issue with Siemens injectors from 2006 on Seat leons. Seat recalled all affected cars. I think Siemens ended up footing the bill. If you have a spare couple hours read:

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=268033&page=43

[james_60]

Petrol and Diesel are made to Exacting Standards.

These Standards are called

BS EN 228:2012 (unleaded) BS EN 590:2013 (Diesel)

This is fuel at its purest form before additives are added by each Retailer/Wholesaler

Jamie