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pezza371887

Ford Injector Issues 1.8 Tdci - Ford Wont Tell You About Them - Must Read

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Finally had a look at injectors and all mine end in 3 which dont sound good for me, to be honest had new fuel filter fitted which was genione part and car was running smooth but starting to creep back to the jerky side, mainly 3rd gear at 33mph is the issue

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4 hours ago, Dennis the meance said:

Mine does the jerk at around 1800-1900rpm on light throttle in any gear 

If you already havnt put a new ford fuel filter on fill make it much better not as jerky as before

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Hello,

An update on my focus. Managed to get a hold of 4 injectors from a 2007 model 1.8tdci. Had a local garage fit. Initally all was good, better sounding engine, no hesitation , improved mpg etc. 

However, i got the limp home mode again on Sunday! Fault codes show the same injector fault on cyclinder 3 (only seen cyclinder 1/2 before but had all injectors replaced). 

I have now checked under the bonnet and believe something may be wrong - one of the injectors looks like it may still be my old one! 

2 questions - cylinder numbers - do the fault codes refer to cylinders 1 to 4 as left to right when looking into the engine bay from front of car?

Secondly, does anyone know more about the injector serial numbers. My old ones and the 'new' ones have the same main serial number, and the same serial on the second line. But i thought the 'new' ones all differed on the serial on the third line with a format like - Gxxx. The old ones definetly had a format of - Hxxx (see picture). Does anyone onow if this serial definitely differentiates between injector batches?

Thanks!

 

image.jpeg

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Hello,

We have had the same symptoms with our Focus. 58 plate, registered in 2009. Three of the four injectors end in 3. We bought the car at 44,000 miles (now at 67,000) but often experiencing 'engine hesitations' and 'Engine Malfunction Warning Lights'. Normally by restarting the car the warning disappears, although yesterday it returned three times before the engine ran normally. It even made a new 'chugging' sound yesterday. Very disappointed with diesel injectors beginning to fail at 67k... slightly jealous of those who have made it to 120k on this post! :) 

To be clear, did anyone have any luck by putting pressure on Ford to replace them at cost price or under discount? I saw one user pushing for it...

Think I'm just going to bite the bullet and get it booked in with our local garage. Although, I am debating about selling the car and starting again with something else? I've read about DMFs needing replacing - are there any other pricey repairs that may come up between 70-90k miles? About to need a new set of tyres too which adds to the immediate costs.

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2 hours ago, pineapplepeteski said:

get it booked in with our local garage. Although, I am debating about selling the car

With a job of that size, I would recommend contacting a few garages for quotes to replace the 3 injectors. Then make a decision based on whether they sound like they know what they are doing, and whether they have a good reputation & reports. But also avoid any that are suspiciously cheap, or outrageously expensive. It could be worth traveling quite a few miles to get a good, experienced garage.

DMF lifetime is very variable, it easily last over 100k, if it is not abused. DMF killers are using wide throttle openings at low rpm (below 1500), or lots of harsh racing starts, heating up the clutch frequently.

Cam belt is an important service coming up soon. Ford recommend 10 years / 100k miles, I believe, but most people recommend a shorter interval of 8 years / 80k miles. Its about £300 for cam belt, but could be quite a bit more if you wanted the water pump and the lower timing chain or belt done at the same time. But I don't think many owners have the water pump & chain done as a routine service.

 

 

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Hi there,  

Sorry to dig up an old thread. 

My 2008 1.8tdci cmax has gone into limp mode on 2 separate times, the first had p0202 code and u2023. I didn't get to see the second time it limped.  

Before the car enters limp mode, I experience jolting as if the power is being cut for a second.

3 of the 4 injectors end with the dreaded 3, one seems to have already been changed. 

I have bought one new injector with the view of changing this myself.  How difficult are they to change, I'm aware they do not need coding. 

Any advice would be great? 

Thanks

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7 hours ago, Cmax1.8tdci said:

How difficult are they to change, I'm aware they do not need coding. 

In principle, very easy.

In practice, there are two main problem areas:

Bolts, pipe fittings & injectors seized up and won't move. They have been in place for 9 years or so, now. Persistence and the careful and correct use of force is usually the answer. This needs some experience in dealing with stuck bits, to be able to judge how much force can be applied before something breaks. And patience and determination! BFMI ohmy.png is not the answer.

Cleanliness: Injectors are very sensitive to the smallest bits of swarf and grit. Thoroughly clean & flush through with filtered diesel, any disturbed pipework. Protect the injector inlet port against any dirt.

The pipes use metal to metal seals, and are only intended for one time use, though they are very often re-used ok. But if any fuel leaks are seen after tightening the fittings to the correct torque (25Nm in Haynes), then a new pipe may be needed. The stresses on these fittings and pipes from the 1500Bar fuel pressure, are huge.

Please let us know how you get on. This does seem to be a problem that will be of interest (unfortunately!) to others.

 

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10 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

In principle, very easy.

In practice, there are two main problem areas:

Bolts, pipe fittings & injectors seized up and won't move. They have been in place for 9 years or so, now. Persistence and the careful and correct use of force is usually the answer. This needs some experience in dealing with stuck bits, to be able to judge how much force can be applied before something breaks. And patience and determination! BFMI ohmy.png is not the answer.

Cleanliness: Injectors are very sensitive to the smallest bits of swarf and grit. Thoroughly clean & flush through with filtered diesel, any disturbed pipework. Protect the injector inlet port against any dirt.

The pipes use metal to metal seals, and are only intended for one time use, though they are very often re-used ok. But if any fuel leaks are seen after tightening the fittings to the correct torque (25Nm in Haynes), then a new pipe may be needed. The stresses on these fittings and pipes from the 1500Bar fuel pressure, are huge.

Please let us know how you get on. This does seem to be a problem that will be of interest (unfortunately!) to others.

 

Thanks for your response Peter.  I have ordered the Haynes manual with the hope that it may offer some assistance too. The car has only done 40k, probably part of the problem... 

When I spoke to ford, two different garages, they refused to look into the service bulletin for the update that may help the issue.  They also say they have never heard of any faulty batch of injectors. 

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nor will ford ever admit it to faulty injectors just glad I bought the 1.6tdci which also has known problems but not injectors hope you get it sorted soon

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On a semi related note, does anyone know if the MK3 Mondeo with the same engine also suffered from the bad batches of injectors in 08-09?

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5 hours ago, 1979Damian said:

does anyone know if the MK3 Mondeo with the same engine also suffered from the bad batches of injectors in 08-09?

The TSB that refers to this problem covers Focus, C-Max, Mondeo, Transit & Tourneo. It gives the same injector serial no (ending in 3) for all.

Most of the TSB is posted on this site:

Though it seems like the recalibration procedure in the TSB is only a partial or temporary cure. According to pezza371887, an intermittent electrical fault in the injector is the real culprit. (posted Oct 22, 2014.)

There is at least one Mondeo owner (Denny Mac) in this thread, though it was a Mk4, he says.

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18 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

The TSB that refers to this problem covers Focus, C-Max, Mondeo, Transit & Tourneo. It gives the same injector serial no (ending in 3) for all.

Most of the TSB is posted on this site:

Though it seems like the recalibration procedure in the TSB is only a partial or temporary cure. According to pezza371887, an intermittent electrical fault in the injector is the real culprit. (posted Oct 22, 2014.)

There is at least one Mondeo owner (Denny Mac) in this thread, though it was a Mk4, he says.

Thanks mate, I figured that it would affect all cars with the Lynx engine installed 08-09 but nice to have it confirmed.  If I do upgrade to a MK4 Mondeo I'll be sure to avoid the 'bad' years as per an equivalent Focus.

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Ford wouldn't even look into the tsb because they said there's no recall on my reg. All they wanted was for me to bring the car in for diagnostics at £110 per hour... 

You can see the serial number etched into the side of the injector without removing them. 

My Haynes manual arrived, seems pretty informative. 

Not sure whether to wait until it happens again or just change one...

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I came here to have a look because my 2012 SMax (1600 TDCI) has the same problem. I've had number 1 repaired and number 3 replaced and now I have another one going. Engine fault warning flashes up and car trips into limp mode, usually going up hill or accelerating onto a motorway. The car is 5 years old and has 63k on the clock.

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Hope you don't mind me chiming in on this topic as I beleive my problems are very similar. Here goes...its lengthy !

2008 1.8TDCI  Estate [Durateq engine] 107,000 miles

Symptoms :-  Severe blue smoke on cold start up but soon goes and using no oil worth mentioning.Also seems to run on 3 cylinders for a short while,it goes after a few hundred yards.

    Strong smell of unburnt diesel when engine off and walking around car.Heater smells fumey especially at stationary.

Tappety/rattle sound at low revs.

After several miles on motorway/open road I get smoke from rear exhaust but then dissapears and runs fine [contantly checking in mirror].

Occasionally runs slightly rough around 60-70 mph but you can drive through the rough spot.

I'm of the impression the car is 'over fuelling and then decides to chuck the excess diesel out of the exhaust.

Steps I've taken so far :-  Injectors checked and clean bill of health although I'm concerned about comments in this post about injectors for the year model...part number ending in 3 ? being dodgey.I can't tell you what the numbers are right now in my car.

Compression checked and within tolerance.Tappets checked and within tolerance.Fuel filter changed and general service done.EGR blanking plate fitted [no noticeable difference].

Checked out with quality Bosch diagnostic kit and revealed no code errors.

Overall the car runs well with plenty of power and is returning early 40's MPG on average.

I'm really struggling with these problems and have had 2 different mechanics/workshops look into it,still can't crack the problem!!

Just want an accurate diagnosis before I move forward [fed up of chucking money at it with no result]. Don't mind replacing the injectors but with no fault showing on the diagnostics I'm reluctant.This situation leads me back to the questionable injectors for 08/09 models and possibly re-coding ECU ?

Any pointers greatly appreciated as I'm fed up with a car thats not right even though I'm using it regularly.I've had many Fords [petrol and diesel]  but right now I'm asking myself...should I've bought a diesel due to the astronomical price of fuel related parts.Thanks.

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, andyt1753 said:

Severe blue smoke on cold start up but soon goes and using no oil worth mentioning.Also seems to run on 3 cylinders for a short while,it goes after a few hundred yards.

My car chucked out huge amounts of smoke on very cold starts last year, and ran very lumpy, like three cylinders, for a minute or so until it warmed up a little. I found and replaced a dead glowplug, and that cured it.

5 hours ago, andyt1753 said:

Tappety/rattle sound at low revs

Not unusual for an older 1.8TDCI! They are not the quietest or most refined engine ever made. Normally they make up for it in reliability, power and economy, but things can still go wrong.

5 hours ago, andyt1753 said:

After several miles on motorway/open road I get smoke from rear exhaust but then dissapears and runs fine [contantly checking in mirror].

Occasionally runs slightly rough around 60-70 mph but you can drive through the rough spot.

That could be the faulty injector problem. But with no error codes, it is too early to be sure. It might be worth disconnecting the MAF, or cleaning or replacing it. And also testing the MAP sensor. (Disconnecting the MAF will cause an error code & light, but sometimes it can run better without it if the MAF is faulty.)

Fuel consumption should be 47 to 53 mpg, unless you do a lot of short or congested journeys. So it does look like your car is not burning the fuel properly at times. Causes could be: Too much fuel (MAF faulty, intercooler pipe / hose leaks); Fuel rail pressure low (fuel droplet size too big), or Injector slow / damaged nozzle.

Diagnostic systems like Forscan & Torque can monitor fuel rail pressure, MAF & MAP readings, and maybe cylinder balance while driving, that might yield some clues.

The difference between 40mpg (typical petrol) and 50mpg (1.8TDCI nom.) over 10k miles per year at £1.20/litre is £270 per year. And petrol cars have expensive bits to go wrong like cats & throttle bodies. GDI petrol cars (eg. 1L Ecoboost) have most of the diesel parts (eg turbo, high pressure fuel pump), plus petrol parts (ignition, cat, O2 sensors etc). So there is no ideal choice!

 

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Thanks Peter, for the sake of a few quid I'm gonna buy a Forscan [might even have a mate whose got one !] .It would be better if I can see the faults as their happening.Whats really giving me the ump is 2 seperate workshops/mechanics have got me precisely nowhere .Funnily enough I like the car and don't mind spending large BUT I need to be 100% on the diagnosis [thinking replacement injectors].Hoping the MAF and MAP thing would have been checked out but I'll look into it....is this something I can do easily?

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2 hours ago, andyt1753 said:

I'm gonna buy a Forscan [might even have a mate whose got one !] .It would be better if I can see the faults as their happening.Whats really giving me the ump is 2 seperate workshops/mechanics have got me precisely nowhere .Funnily enough I like the car and don't mind spending large BUT I need to be 100% on the diagnosis [thinking replacement injectors].Hoping the MAF and MAP thing would have been checked out but I'll look into it....is this something I can do easily?

One supplier of the ELM327 adapter you need, that has been recommended by some here, is:

http://www.spanglefish.com/TunnelratElectronics/index.asp?pageid=516992
or
https://tunnelrat-electronics.fwscart.com/

For the software, see: http://forscan.org/download.html

This sounds like a hard problem for a garage to diagnose. Unless they have a dynamometer to run the car up to power, or can remove the injectors to test them fully in special test equipment, then they rely mainly on the DTCs, which are not appearing. That is why I would suggest live, on the road, diagnostics & data recording.

The MAP is quite easy to test with Forscan, or at least the Turbo / MAP combination is. If it does not perform as expected, it can be hard to separate MAP & Turbo problems, but at least it narrows it down. A live data run I took some time ago is here.

LOG-3.PNG

You can see the MAP signal roughly following the accelerator (APP), and topping out at 255kPa (2.5 Bar abs, or about 20 PSI gauge). FRP is fuel rail pressure. VSS is speed.

The MAF may be a bit harder, though the disconnect test is easy, as long as you have a system to read & reset the codes generated. Forscan will show the MAF reading as an air flow, but I have less to go on as to what it should look like. Though a sudden dip or shift just before the rough running or smoking stage would be a hint.

Cylinder balance can detect some injector problems, though when I tried it on mine, they all read identically, it looked like an artificial reading rather than actual data. But I have seen  cases where there is appreciable imbalance.

100% sure of diagnosis is understandable, but hardly ever achievable! When my 1st wheel bearing went, I spent months trying to identify what it was, and which bearing. Eventually it got bad enough to hear a slight difference in sound when cornering. A garage a friend had recommended for this agreed, and changed the driver side front bearing (£200 :ohmy:), even though there was some chance it was the other. Fortunately we were correct. Though the passenger side one went the same way about a year later! They had done 160k miles though, so I can't complain too much.:laugh:

 

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Cmax1.8 tdci

I am pleased that I have eventually found out the cause of my"Engine Malfunction". Mine started at around 70 k miles. Just the same as every one else.

I switched to Shell and BP and had some time free of the problem. A mechanic who comes into the farm swears by adding "Mineral 2 Stroke oil in to the diesel [1 L 2 stroke  to 20 Diesel]

He also hated Supermarket fuel.

I worked in Engineering at Ford Tractor /CNH .I checked the "add 2 stroke" with a guy in Engines. Seems Bio Diesel is "DRY" and this 2 Stroke oil may reduce  the problem to some extent.

John Deere developed their common rail engine in Germany where "White Diesel" is the norm for agricultural vehicles . When these tractors came to UK they were being run on "RED Diesel". I was told that his caused injection problems.

Ask in "PARTS DIRECT" motor factors how much "  2 Stroke oil" they sell to car owners for adding into their diesel fuel.

My problems restarted to day just after filling with Shell V-Power. I will add some 2 Strokk and see if it clears it.

 

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hi

I have a 2009 mk4 mondeo 1.8 tdci zetec

And I think my injectors are going aswell 

As they seem to be getting louder. 

It's only done 87k miles

I know some people say too change fuel filter to see if makes a difference 

 

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