Things I Don't Like

[Turvey]

Shower trap? 

[TomsFocus]

12 hours ago, Turvey said:

Shower trap? 

That's the only thing up here that I haven't been able to check so far.  There's no access under the shower tray and I can't get low enough in the cubicle to see down it properly. 

Wondering if there's any way that I could create an air-tight seal over the trap for a day just to prove whether it is that or not.  Would a damp wad of kitchen roll work?  (Not loo roll as that'll just fall apart).

The smell was awful last night, could barely breathe in there even with the extractor fan running.

[Turvey]

What kind of trap/drain do you have?  The ones in our house actually pull apart from the top to allow access to the trap. And they really stink if not cleaned regularly 🤮

[Tizer]

2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Would a damp wad of kitchen roll work?  (Not loo roll as that'll just fall apart).

The smell was awful last night, could barely breathe in there even with the extractor fan running.

An old polythene bag or cling film would be best, and either weighted down or taped. 

If it is a traditional Trap it is likely to only have a 50 or 38mm water seal instead of 75mm but it shouldn't be drawing all the time. It may npt be s traditional Trap though. 

I would put a lot of bleach down it in meantime if you are not fit at the moment. 

 

[TomsFocus]

20 minutes ago, Turvey said:

What kind of trap/drain do you have?  The ones in our house actually pull apart from the top to allow access to the trap. And they really stink if not cleaned regularly 🤮

 

6 minutes ago, Tizer said:

An old polythene bag or cling film would be best, and either weighted down or taped. 

If it is a traditional Trap it is likely to only have a 50 or 38mm water seal instead of 75mm but it shouldn't be drawing all the time. It may npt be s traditional Trap though. 

I would put a lot of bleach down it in meantime if you are not fit at the moment. 

 

Thanks guys.  I was overthinking it earlier.  Have just taped over it with a few strips of parcel tape to make a square.  Won't know if it's worked until this evening.

I don't know what type of trap it is, just the cheapest available when it was built around 20 years ago I guess. 

I can't tolerate the smell of bleach either unfortunately.  Hoping to get some bicarb or something to try and neutralise without adding another smell.

[Tizer]

If your Flat is only 20 years old then the Trap is likely to be a modern one rather than a traditional type and as Turvey said they are usually easily disassembled from above for cleaning when you are fit to do so.

After sealing it you should know in the morning if it is the Trap or not.

Bicarbonate of Soda is good for cleaning if you can't take the smell of Bleach or Disinfectant. I usually mix some Vinegar with it when cleaning my Washing Machine.

[StephenFord]

1 minute ago, Tizer said:

Bicarbonate of Soda is good for cleaning if you can't take the smell of Bleach or Disinfectant. I usually mix some Vinegar with it when cleaning my Washing Machine.

My mum (in her 80s) is a big believer in 'soda crystals', widely available for about £2/kg. She can't understand why folk buy really expensive Calgon tablets LOL

[TomsFocus]

If you look at the small print on a Calgon TV ad, it even states that it's been dramatised!

Tbf I live in a very hard water area and don't clean the washing machine.  It must clean itself, right?

I did try a free sample of machine cleaner about 3 years ago, didn't notice any difference after so the free sample didn't make me buy more.

I must admit mine is a washer dryer combo, so the heat from the dryer prevents mouldy seals and kills off any bacteria.

[Jimpster]

Caustic soda powder from the poundshop tho not the drain cleaner one. couple of spoons down the plughole wait 30 min, neat bleach down ventilate and leave the room, after 30 mins boiling kettle, my patented nuclear cleaner

[Tizer]

3 hours ago, StephenFord said:

My mum (in her 80s) is a big believer in 'soda crystals', widely available for about £2/kg. She can't understand why folk buy really expensive Calgon tablets LOL

Yes, I have some myself and often soak very dirty washing in it, especially my overalls when they get caked in oil and grease.

[unofix]

A failure of the "Time Space Continuum" occurred today when two vehicles tried to occupy the same space at the same time !

Police are searching for the driver and passenger of the Focus RS as they fled the scene moments after the crash leaving the driver of the Mercedes wondering what the hell just happened. The Focus RS will undoubtedly be a total write off as both sides are smashed in and the 'B' posts bent like a banana. If the driver was the very recent owner of the car they are going to be well out of pocket as the vechicle is not taxed which will probably mean the insurance (if there is any) will be void.

 

[StephenFord]

3 minutes ago, unofix said:

The Focus RS will undoubtedly be a total write off...

I think you're being a bit pessimistic. T-cut can work wonders! 🤣

[TomsFocus]

13 hours ago, unofix said:

...the vechicle is not taxed which will probably mean the insurance (if there is any) will be void.

 

This is a 'quirk' of the .gov site unfortunately.  As soon as a car is transferred to another individual or a trader, it shows as 'untaxed'.  But it then takes up to a week (or more) to show as taxed after the new owner taxes it online.  As it's been owned less than a week, there's a good chance that it probably was taxed.

Also interesting how often cars seem to hit trees, when there's all that empty space between them!  

[TomsFocus]

On 5/25/2023 at 12:45 PM, Turvey said:

What kind of trap/drain do you have?

 

22 hours ago, Tizer said:

If your Flat is only 20 years old then the Trap is likely to be a modern one rather than a traditional type and as Turvey said they are usually easily disassembled from above for cleaning when you are fit to do so.

 

There was no smell last night, but the downstairs tenant was out, so not really a fair test.  (Also found out that parcel tape on a shower tray is a bad idea, created more mess to clean up lol).

But I'm more confused than before now.  I had assumed it would just be a U-bend like a basin, I didn't realise what you meant by a modern or traditional shower trap yesterday.  I've now found out the top grate comes out easily, and there's a plastic pipe inside that can be lifted out with a flat bar on top.  I expected some sort of filter (grate or gauze) at the bottom of this pipe, but there isn't anything.  It's listed as a 'hair trap' but I don't understand how that's meant to work?  There's obviously nothing in it to 'clean' out.

 

The only thing I have noticed is that mine no longer has a rubber O-ring fitted.  But what is the point of an O-ring around a huge empty hole?  I must be missing something here?

[TomsFocus]

In other news, I've just realised the top grate, that has been broken since before I moved in, costs £2.95 posted...  Might as well replace that then.  

MCALPINE CHROME SHOWER WASTE GRID STW3 STW4 STWGR TRAY TRAPS COVER TOOL 45mm CAP | eBay

[Tizer]

11 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

 

 

There was no smell last night, but the downstairs tenant was out, so not really a fair test.  (Also found out that parcel tape on a shower tray is a bad idea, created more mess to clean up lol).

But I'm more confused than before now.  I had assumed it would just be a U-bend like a basin, I didn't realise what you meant by a modern or traditional shower trap yesterday.  I've now found out the top grate comes out easily, and there's a plastic pipe inside that can be lifted out with a flat bar on top.  I expected some sort of filter (grate or gauze) at the bottom of this pipe, but there isn't anything.  It's listed as a 'hair trap' but I don't understand how that's meant to work?  There's obviously nothing in it to 'clean' out.

 

The only thing I have noticed is that mine no longer has a rubber O-ring fitted.  But what is the point of an O-ring around a huge empty hole?  I must be missing something here?

The water outlet in the outer part of the Trap will be part way up so will form a seal in conjunction with the part that you lifted out provided that everything that should be there is actually still there.

I'm very surprised that your one is so clean.

 

[Tizer]

This looks like your one @TomsFocus, the other seal might be missing as well.

[TomsFocus]

22 minutes ago, Tizer said:

The water outlet in the outer part of the Trap will be part way up so will form a seal in conjunction with the part that you lifted out provided that everything that should be there is actually still there.

I'm very surprised that your one is so clean.

That's just a picture I pulled form the internet.  Mine is a bit stained (dark blue - shower gel I guess), but there's nothing 'caught' in it like I was expecting.  How could anything get caught in an empty pipe?

I see what you mean about the seal now though.  Effectively this pipe is one half of a U from a traditional U-bend.  So without the O-ring there, could that change the water level and allow more to drain out than it should, leaving the waste pipe open?  I don't mind replacing this part for a new one with an O-ring fitted, just trying to understand if this is a potential cause for the smell or not.

 

13 minutes ago, Tizer said:

This looks like your one @TomsFocus, the other seal might be missing as well.

Ah, that's a useful diagram.  I guess you mean the flat black one?  That one must be under the shower tray right?  I'd have no way to access that one.  I can change the centre tube if you think that'll make a difference.

 

**Edit - I see what's happening now.  The missing O-ring on that central tube may not change the water level, but it will mean that any scent from the waste pipes totally bypasses the water seal inside the central tube.  Hopefully that is the issue! 

[TomsFocus]

If anyone's interested, I wondered what was meant by a 'resealing' trap.  This must be what it looks like when we try to explain vehicle parts operation to non-car people.  

Operation

When the Trap is subject to syphonic conditions the automatic hydraulic action allows air to be drawn through the inlet of the Trap and through the by pass columns thus breaking the syphonic action. On cessation of syphonic conditions the remaining water falls back to reseal the Trap. The Silentrap ventilates by drawing air through a Non-Return Valve whereas the Resealing Trap ventilates by drawing air through the inlet of the Trap and through the water seal

[Tizer]

2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

**Edit - I see what's happening now.  The missing O-ring on that central tube may not change the water level, but it will mean that any scent from the waste pipes totally bypasses the water seal inside the central tube.  Hopefully that is the issue! 

That is completely correct, if that rubber seal is missing then air in the Drainage system can vent into your Bathroom, bypassing the water seal.

The 4 inch above ground drain that all of your drains connect to, which is normally Internal up here and External down south should have an open end, so vented to atmosphere, and because it is higher it should vent most of the smells from the underground sewage system along with everyone else's vents. 

If it was blocked by say a birds nest then more smells would come out of any weak points in the system such as a missing seal. Also sometimes a blockage underground in another part of the main sewage system can also cause more smells internally because the venting of the sewer has been mucked up, or maybe you connect to a communal Septic Tank that is not functioning correctly at the moment.

[Turvey]

@TomsFocus looks like you've found the source of the unpleasant odour....... hopefully 🤞

I would give everything that you can reach a good clean with your preferred cleaning agent and a brush, replace the rubber O ring and look forward to a fresher smelling bathroom 😃

[TomsFocus]

2 hours ago, Tizer said:

That is completely correct, if that rubber seal is missing then air in the Drainage system can vent into your Bathroom, bypassing the water seal.

The 4 inch above ground drain that all of your drains connect to, which is normally Internal up here and External down south should have an open end, so vented to atmosphere, and because it is higher it should vent most of the smells from the underground sewage system along with everyone else's vents. 

If it was blocked by say a birds nest then more smells would come out of any weak points in the system such as a missing seal. Also sometimes a blockage underground in another part of the main sewage system can also cause more smells internally because the venting of the sewer has been mucked up, or maybe you connect to a communal Septic Tank that is not functioning correctly at the moment.

Thanks John.

I'm not sure how our waste pipes are connected here.  I can only see one small bend of grey waste pipe in a service cupboard at ground level.  Not sure if both upstairs and downstairs are connected to that or if it's just mine.  We have individual metered mains water and the flats were built separate, not converted, so I'd hope for individual waste pipes as well, but this situation does suggest otherwise.

It's definitely on mains sewerage, no septic tank.  (Myself & half the estate got blocked toilets on one day last year!)

I've just used Google Streetview to look at the outside of the flats (isn't technology great) and can't see any roof mounted stench pipes.  The ground level drains are solid/sealed as well.  Are waste vents a building requirement?  If there's no vent, that could explain why the smells are being forced into here...

[TomsFocus]

1 hour ago, Turvey said:

@TomsFocus looks like you've found the source of the unpleasant odour....... hopefully 🤞

I would give everything that you can reach a good clean with your preferred cleaning agent and a brush, replace the rubber O ring and look forward to a fresher smelling bathroom 😃

I've just checked the instructions on a bottle of drain cleaner I bought a while ago. 

1. Pour whole bottle into drain.

2. Wait 1 hour then flush through

3. Repeat weekly

That's a great bit of marketing - buy our product every week and throw it down the drain!

 

[Tizer]

27 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Thanks John.

I'm not sure how our waste pipes are connected here.  I can only see one small bend of grey waste pipe in a service cupboard at ground level.  Not sure if both upstairs and downstairs are connected to that or if it's just mine.  We have individual metered mains water and the flats were built separate, not converted, so I'd hope for individual waste pipes as well, but this situation does suggest otherwise.

It's definitely on mains sewerage, no septic tank.  (Myself & half the estate got blocked toilets on one day last year!)

I've just used Google Streetview to look at the outside of the flats (isn't technology great) and can't see any roof mounted stench pipes.  The ground level drains are solid/sealed as well.  Are waste vents a building requirement?  If there's no vent, that could explain why the smells are being forced into here...

As a general rule there will be one vertical 4 inch (110mm) pipe that takes both the Flats and it will be either Internal or external. If the Bathrooms are one above the other then that will definitely be the case.

Usually for a Separate drainage system, this vertical pipe will take the Toilets, Wash Hand Basin and Shower. If the Kitchen Sink is not too far away then that will be connected too.

Sometimes for older Combined Drainage Systems the Toilet Waste was separate from the Sink/Basin/Shower, which were combined with the Rainwater System. This is unlikely in your case though.

At one time every 4 inch Vertical Stack was vented to atmosphere but recently Air Admittance Valves were invented, primarily for use in Flat Conversions where you could not vent to atmosphere.

Sometimes, especially recently, the Vent is not visible because if the Vertical Stack is Internal it can terminate in a special Roof Tile Vent instead of just sticking out of the roof. The Tile Vent is easily seen if you know what you are looking for.

Most modern things in the Construction Industry have been dumbed down and Drainage is no exception. You can now use a system with Air Admittance Valves for about 20 houses as long as the one at the head of the line is vented.

This can result in lots of problems. One of them is that an Air Admittance Valve only lets air in, not out, so any build up of pressure will find another way out instead of being vented as it should be.

Given that your Estate has had Underground Drainage problems before, the drains may still not be functioning correctly, hence the smell you get sometimes.

I could go on but I think I have bored the you know whats off you already.

[StephenFord]

1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

I've just checked the instructions on a bottle of drain cleaner I bought a while ago. 

1. Pour whole bottle into drain.

2. Wait 1 hour then flush through

3. Repeat weekly

That's a great bit of marketing - buy our product every week and throw it down the drain!

 

Almost as good as one of the greatest marketing cons of all times. Shampoo! Apply to hair, rinse, then repeat! The 'repeat' increases worldwide usage by 100% LOL