Advice Needed - Coolant In Core Plugs - Car Currently With Ford

[jjones2908]

Hi all,

Ford Focus Mk2, 1.6 petrol. 2005 / 55.

So yesterday I discovered that my engine coolant level was looking pretty low (maybe half an inch below 'min' when cold). No engine warning lights up to that point though.

Today I took the car out to pick up some coolant / battery top up water (yes, I know that I probably could have used tap water!) to give it a bit of a top up before I decided what to do next.

It was on the way back home that the fun began and I could feel the car juddering while driving up a hill until it got worse and worse. Experience told me that this was probably a spark plug / coil pack related issue. Still, at least the car still drove so I wasn't completely stranded, which is more than can be said for my previous cars.

At this stage I hadn't twigged that the coolant issue was in fact related to the juddering as on inspection I discovered coolant / rusty water in / around the core plugs and it had made quite a mess. At least it solved that mystery.

The frustrating this is that this is the very same issue that was discovered by my garage in Feb last year while they were doing the timing belt, except it had only got to the stage of making a mess / causing some corosion and hadn't had any noticeable impact on running or performance.

I should also add that my car appears to have the modified screen washers and having done a few splash tests, they do seem water tight in my opinion.

I only bought this car 2 years ago, directly from Ford, so I put my stern face on and drove (noisily) over to Ford and kind of dumped the car on their front door step and insisted on a resolution. I spoke to the head of servicing right away who said that the fault would be diagnosed and a solution decided at no charge, so at least I don't have to pay for them to find the issue.

I accept that my car is gettinng on a bit, but I don't think it's acceptable for this to be happening once, let alone twice. The first time it happened was 6 months after I bought the car, so wasn't covered by a warranty.

What stance should I take? What are the questions to ask? What is the actual solution so that I can check what they say against what you guys say? Can anyone explain to me what is actually happening to cause this and Is there a permanent fix?

I'm hoping for a call back from them tomorrow.

Thanks for any help or advice that anyone can give.

J

[jjones2908]

Sorry - just to add that the garage that discovered it previously did replace the core plugs (and spark plugs etc) and also discovered that the rocker cover was broken, so replaced that too.

[iantt]

So did they replace the core plugs last Feb? If they did then it shouldn't happen again. Once new the core plugs have been fitted correctly then should be it for a long time . unless the washers are the old style without the rubber seal, then water in drip in corroding core plugs again, but this corrosion can take years to corode plug through.

[jjones2908]

Hi Iantt,

Sorry - I added that bit at the same time as your response. Yes, they replaced these. I'm led to believe that they are the new style washers, but I'm going to get Ford to confirm this when they call.

Cheers,

J

[Lenny]

Hi Iantt,

Sorry - I added that bit at the same time as your response. Yes, they replaced these. I'm led to believe that they are the new style washers, but I'm going to get Ford to confirm this when they call.

Cheers,

J

Common problem is the washers allowing rain water to get through,

I recommend people to seal underside of them with bathroom silicone,

[Russ]

Had the washer problem on a Fiesta, bathroom sealant was the answer

[jjones2908]

Thanks guys. Wish it was just the washer jet issue as at least it would be fairly simple! The coolant leak is a bit worrying... guess I'll see what Ford have to say... :(

[jjones2908]

So Ford (Dees, Croydon) have called back to say they can't find a problem... computer says no.

I guess they're ignoring the fact that the coolant level is an inch below the minimum mark (but perhaps they find that to be normal), the rocker cover is covered in coolant stains (again, guess that's not indicative of any issue or leak), the plugs are swimming in rusty water and coolant and that the car misfires when you rev it above 2000 rpm.

I now have no idea where to turn because the car isn't drivable. It's like banging your head against a brick wall and was exactly the same when I had other issues with the car just after buying it.

So disappointed. 2 years of headaches with this car...

[jjones2908]

I've spoken to Ford and got more information from them. They now think that if the problem isn't external then it's probably internal (i.e. head gasket) and want to take it away for analysis, which will probably be around £800, plus the cost of any additional parts / labour needed. Worst case scenario, anything up to £2500.

Head spinning and no idea who to believe or what to do.

Any advice would be really appreciated.

[jjones2908]

I've spoken to Ford and got more information from them. They now think that if the problem isn't external then it's probably internal (i.e. head gasket) and want to take it away for analysis, which will probably be around £800, plus the cost of any additional parts / labour needed. Worst case scenario, anything up to £2500.

Head spinning and no idea who to believe or what to do.

Any advice would be really appreciated.

Ok, an update for anyone that is interested!

I went to Ford and took the car, while they tried to convince me that I would break it beyond repair trying to drive it. Interesting that they went from not seeing a problem to deciding that it was a blown head gasket without any real investigation. If it was clearly a gasket issue then I would obviously not touch it.

I drove it carefully to a nearby 'back street garage' who used to service my parents cars before they moved away (absolutely top bloke by the way). He took a look at it as soon as I arrived and was very confident that it's nothing like a blown head gasket, but will get in there and have a proper look to check for serious issues.

His suspicions are around one of the core plugs that was replaced in early 2014. He thinks that it wasn't done properly and this combined with the pre-existing issue of rain water collecting around the rocker cover on the 1.6, 99BHP petrol engine has basically led to the two liquids meeting (coolant and rusty water). It does look like my wiper jets are water tight though, so water must be getting in another way. The car spent most of last week sat in torrential rain in the Lake District, without being used. If water has caused the issue, how the hell do I stop this from happening in future? Cars have to sit in rain sometimes, this is the UK!

I can't rule out serious issues, but I have some hope now and at least if major work does need doing, he's not going to charge me as much as Ford.

J

[iantt]

Washer jets easy fix , just get the later ones , if it is rainwater and coolant, to be sure just needs testing for coolant strentgh against what's in coolant reservoir, that will confirm or not the presence of coolant in core plug area and leaking or not, get a combustion gas check in coolant reservoir for possible head gasket also

It is rare for head gasket to go unless it's overheated at some point on 1.6.

[artscot79]

its not a head gasket i agree with youre mechanic one of the core plugs wasnt fitted properly as for the washers you wont be able to tell if they are leaking an easy fix is open the bonnet and the square hole the washer sits in just cover the whole underside of it in silicone both sides or get a volvo engine cover which wont cure it but stop the water getting to the plugs

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-VOLVO-ENGINE-TOP-COVER-1-6-PETROL-30650468-FORD-FOCUS-WATER-LEAK-MOD-/221662425971?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item339c1c3373

[Russ]

should've drained the water out and started the car, if it's a core plug the water will return and you'll see it coming up, (and the water will be coloured). If it's a core plug you can drive a screwdriver into the leaking one to prise it out, smear some red hermatite around the new core plug and position it in place then using something flat tap the new one into the hole. (Assuming they haven't changed the designs of core plugs since I last did one)

[jjones2908]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

So the garage has done all of the testing and taken it out for a 10 mile drive and their suspicions have been confirmed as it being the core plugs and nothing more sinister. So they've changed these along with the spark plugs and leads and have done a coolant flush and change.

It would be cheaper to keep getting the core plugs changed (and plugs and leads) every so often than having someone like Ford charge £800 just to investigate!! It's one of those issues which I wish I'd discovered while I was researching the car as it might have put me off. Nevermind! The car still has some positives but I will be forever waiting for the misfire to return now.

Hopefully buying that Volve engine cover will do something regardless of how the water is getting in. I presume that the water is rusting and weakening the core plugs so that the coolant then escapes.

Thanks again - I'll be back in about 18 months when the problem returns!

J

[iantt]

Normally once core plugs are fitted correctly and new modified washer jets fitted then that's fixed for good,

[J12BDM]

should've drained the water out and started the car, if it's a core plug the water will return and you'll see it coming up, (and the water will be coloured). If it's a core plug you can drive a screwdriver into the leaking one to prise it out, smear some red hermatite around the new core plug and position it in place then using something flat tap the new one into the hole. (Assuming they haven't changed the designs of core plugs since I last did one)

I've bought a 2005 1.6 Focus and also have this problem. Would I be able to remove the valve cover and replace the core plugs myself or is it a job for a local mechanic? I can follow how to's (hint hint)​ but there is nothing online or in the Haynes manual.

I've also bought a new set of spark plugs to replace the old ones. I would give the wells a clean and use a vac to suck out any of the crap that's in there, but how much would I have to worry about tiny bits of rust falling through from around the threads and scratching the cylinders? Would a microscopic bit hurt or am I being overly paranoid?

Oh, and I've order new washer jets, sealant and Volvo cover.

[Russ]

Replacing the core plugs you can do yourself, just get the right sized ones from ford (shouldn't cost that much as they're only pressed steel). Dry the spark plug wells if there's any water in them and you should find which core plugs are leaking. In fact with a warm/hot engine you will actually see the water rising in the spark plug well. As said previously make sure the water isn't leaking from your window washer jets first!