Noisy Mk2 Focus

[firefoxed]

Hi all,

Cool forum,

Looking for a little help/guidance.

A couple of weeks ago I sold my MK1 Focus 1.6 hatchback and I purchased a 2006 Focus 1.6LX automatic saloon. Just before I made the purchase I noticed the engine was fairly noisy and when I queried it they salesman said it just needed a service which would be sorted before I collected the car. A few days later I collected the car and the engine seemed quiet so I figured the service had sorted it, next morning on start up the engine sounded very noisy. I popped the bonnet and all the noisy seemed to be at the top, I know very little about cars but from the little I know I would have said it was the tappets. After the engine warmed up it seemed to fade a little but came back when the engine seemed under a little stress, like pulling out of a bend or corner. Sitting at traffic lights with the window down you can just hear the tapping noise.

Today I brought it to a local mechanic friend who reckons it could be the cam lifters and I should bring it back to the garage because I could be facing a four figure bill in the future. The car is under warranty for 3 months so I took a trip down to see them and they understandably would not take the word of the guy I knew but have agreed to take the car in next Monday morning to have a look at it.

If I didn't already know it was a petrol engine and hearing it cold I would have guessed it was a diesel, my MK1 was a much quieter car and was never noisy and at the moment I feel like I have traded down instead of up.

Anyone come across this type of noise? any advice greatly appreciated

[williamweb]

I own a MK1 focus diesel and bought it with noisy tappets.I was a little concerned at first but six years on and the engine is still strong.I've learned to live with the noise.

Sent from my iPad using Ford OC

[Incontro]

I have the same engine as you, and it also sounds tappety, or like a diesel when cold. The noise improves, and the engine becomes noticeably smoother once it has warmed up. I think it's just a characteristic of the 1.6 duratec engine.

[Dan P]

Have you considered trying a Terraclean? I've just had one on my 56 reg 2.0 petrol focus with 65k on the clock. It was a bit rattly and juddery at idle but now it's really smooth.

[Incontro]

Have you considered trying a Terraclean? I've just had one on my 56 reg 2.0 petrol focus with 65k on the clock. It was a bit rattly and juddery at idle but now it's really smooth.

Maybe in the future mate, but right now trying to save £££, at £100 it's a bit on the pricey side.

[artscot79]

The 1.6 is a tappety engine when cold using some magnatec can help

[firefoxed]

Thanks for the replies.

Just back from the dealer and after the owner spoke with their mechanic they have decided to replace the engine. They say it's cheaper for them to replace it than to do the work needed, it will not be a brand new engine just one lifted from a different car.

At this point I would have preferred my money back and purchased a different car but the offer of a refund was not on the table.

Bummer no car for a week.

[artscot79]

i would tell them you want the money back who says the new engine will be any good if i were you ide call them back tell them youve spoke to trading standards and you want youre cash back

[Cleaner]

I feel your pain mate but trading standards will just tell you that you have to give the dealer the opertunity to repair the problem,,,if it persists then you can demand your money back.

An item has to be fit for the purpose,,,but if you have a problem I am afraid it is law you have to give them a chance to put the problem right if they can not then it's a full refund or replacement,,,,that's how it is now.

Paul

[artscot79]

Not entirely the case for a repair yes a whole new engine means it wasn't fit for the purpose so a refund is available due to the fact there's no guarantee on the new engine it devalues the car from past experience they'll stick a cheap 2nd hand engine in they wont replace the timing belt and tensioners just use the old ones or the one already on it

[Cleaner]

Well I'm afraid you are wrong,,,,the term repair covers a huge gapping cassum,,,,don't take my word for it phone Cambridge trading standards,,,,,been there got the proverbial T shirt.

The fact they have offered to replace the engine whether new or used is an offer of helping you,,,,,it all came about with insurance companies using used parts to put cars back on the road,,,,,ppl complained saying their cars were repaired with used parts as new often out weighs cost of repair,,,I.e written off.

Trading standards changed the goal posts to fall in line with everyone else,so the fact they offered another engine is in fact in line with policy guidelines.

If you want further proof Jackie warlton, Cambridge trading standards,you can also Google trading standards ,,,repair, replace, refund,your rights and retailer rights,,,,revised 2014 reason for revise to bring into law the sale of goods act and auction sites.....

Paul

[firefoxed]

My own mechanic guy has suggested I refuse the repair because I will not know where the engine came from, he also said leave the car at the garage and demand a refund.

I understand why he would suggest not accepting the engine but it would be a real risk to leave the car while I try get my money back. No car and no money is not an option for me.

I contacted consumer affairs and they also said I could refuse the used engine option and then ask for an alternative from the garage, I assume the alternative is an engine rebuild which for the garage would not make financial sense. Chances are the garage will refuse the rebuild option and I would have to take them to the small claims court for the repair costs. I reckon by the time any court case would happen the warranty would expire and I would lose the option of the work they are prepared to do now, a real catch 22 for me.

When did Ford start making the 1.6 engine that is in my 2006 MK2, realistically how old an engine could I get?

[artscot79]

I get what you're saying but I also know from working in garages that you can get a refund and that trading standards in this case would also ask for a refund you don't have to accept a repair an alternative means sn alternative car

[Focu5]

So was it the Cam Lifters, why did they decide to replace it, what's wrong with it? Seems a bit drastic to replace the entire engine?

[Nathan_M]

The lifters on these engines are noisey whether it's the 1.25,1.4 or 1.6 I think the older silver top version of the engine is worse it's a characteristic of the black top to rattle and tap when cold as the oil sinks into the sump after 10 minutes of running they tend to go lovely and quiet, never under estimate the difference using a decent oil makes either and also have you checked the oil level they are happiest when the cold level sits just below the max, and are much noisier if only filled to the half way mark.

[firefoxed]

So was it the Cam Lifters, why did they decide to replace it, what's wrong with it? Seems a bit drastic to replace the entire engine?

When I first spoke with the garage I just told them what my mechanic thought it might be, so when I went to the dealer on Monday to discuss it with their mechanic I was expecting to have a argument or at least a debate of some sort regarding the type of repair needed. When I got to the dealers there was no sign of the mechanic and the owner just said leave my keys and it would take a week as they were going to replace the engine. The dealer was extremely nice and has no problem picking up the bill for engine replacement.

So I have no diagnosis as to what the issue is, just that it is cheaper to replace rather than repair. My belief is that the dealer knew the engine was bad before sale and were probably hoping a buyer would not notice within the warranty period, barring that he is just an honest dealer. I should have done it before purchase but I only pulled a history check on the car last night and it shows that it has been sitting up nearly 8 months at the dealership. I can't see how any Focus can sit on a dealers lot for that long unless there was something wrong with it.

The lifters on these engines are noisey whether it's the 1.25,1.4 or 1.6 I think the older silver top version of the engine is worse it's a characteristic of the black top to rattle and tap when cold as the oil sinks into the sump after 10 minutes of running they tend to go lovely and quiet, never under estimate the difference using a decent oil makes either and also have you checked the oil level they are happiest when the cold level sits just below the max, and are much noisier if only filled to the half way mark.

Mine is very noisy from start and quietens a little but you can still hear it when stopped with windows down or when the engine is under a little duress. I had been driving it for a couple of hours before I went to my own mechanic so it was nice and warmed up, he said he could hear me coming down the lane and knew what the problem was before I got out of the car to speak with him.

Trying to figure out the years the engines were in production etis lists the engine and when googled it shows that it could be anywhere from 1998, the thought of getting an 18 year old engine is scary and I will run a serial check at a Ford dealer after I get the car back. If I find that the engine is that old then I will take him to court, consumer affairs said that the dealer cannot devalue the car with his repair and putting a really old engine in would devalue it in my eyes. Hopefully I have misunderstood the years of production.

[biff55]

i'd be wanting to know the mileage of the donor engine and the age of the vehical its coming out of before agreeing to any transplant.

but i just enjoy asking awkward questions.............. :-)

[Nathan_M]

Mileage is surely the only real important factor the age shouldn't matter as long as it was looked after.

[artscot79]

the instant you replace the engine you devalue the car as you have to explain and show proof of the mileage year of engine etc most buyers will walk away as i said the car will be devalued by doing the repair no matter how old or new the engine is i will assume that upon replacing the engine he will replace the water pump and put a full cambelt kit on it then give it a service as well

[firefoxed]

I spoke with the dealer yesterday and he has said the engine is from a 2007 Focus with 64,000 confirmed miles. When I get the serial number so I can change the log book I then will confirm the age with Ford. At least I will know then if the dealer is telling lies.

Dealer also said it will have a full service before I get it. The car will be ready Friday or Saturday but they are going to hold it a couple of more days to test it.

[Cleaner]

Why would you have to show the mileage,or proof of where the engine came from,,,most people do not even check an engine number when they buy a car,,,,yes a lot of people may check the reg doc with the chassis number,,,,but I know of no one who has ever checked the engine number against the paperwork.

And if you have you are probably the only one,,you are also surmising once the guys car is fixed he is going to move it on,,,if that was the case he would not be letting them go to all the trouble.

And even if he did if he took it to a dealer to part out against some thing else the dealer would not check the engine number any dealer is only interested in selling his stock what ever he/she buys moving that on as well.

Let's face it if the engine is a good one then it will be a runner if it a bag of crap then the dealer knows our member ain't going to take it,,,the modern engine as I am sure you know is designed to be a very reliable unit these days,,,yes you do not know the service history of the engine,,,,but if it runs well clean and no knocks bangs bumps or grinds then it would be safe to assume it will be ok,,,if they fit it and it goes !Removed! up in a period of time then the dealer will know what is going to happen,,,

No doubt our friend will tell the dealer he expects some kind of warranty with the replacement engine, as I have said if it's ok and runs well then you can assume it will be ok,,,if not it goes back don't it....

Paul

[artscot79]

as proof of mileage the engine should come with info such as year and spec of car and the recorded mileage of the car it came from i do check engine numbers before buying cars as do many others including dealers if you have a record of that info of the replacement it makes things a lot easier secondly the engine mileage you would want as close to youre cars mileage as possible would you want a car thats done 60k when the engines done 140k

evidence required, will need to be one of the folllowing:

-A reciept of purchase on a headed paper, from a garage, confiriming the
engine number,engine size and the fuel type for the reconditioned or
replacement engine, if one has been fitted.

-an inspection report from a body such as the AA or RAC

-An inspection report provided for insurance purposes.

-Written confirmation from the manufacturer showing the engine number and size

If your existing engine has been converted or the change took place before you bought the vehicle we will accept:

-written confirmation on headed paper from the garage that carried out the conversion; or

-written confirmation of the change on headed paper from an independant garage.

I phoned up DVLA on 01792 782058 to be told that there is new rules
regarding engine replacement and that you must provide evidence of the
change

DVLA say this





Change to engine and/or cylinder capacity (engine size)



DVLA will need written evidence of any changes to engine number and/or cylinder capacity (cc). Written evidence can be:



* a receipt for the replacement engine

* written evidence from the manufacturer

* an inspection report provided for insurance purposes

* written confirmation on headed paper from a garage if the change in engine size took place before you bought the vehicle

[artscot79]

Not trying to cause you stress just making sure you have the info you need should it be an issue

[firefoxed]

Not trying to cause you stress just making sure you have the info you need should it be an issue

I appreciate any help and advice, never does any harm to have all the information needed when confronting dealers. So thank you for all your input it has been very helpful.

[firefoxed]

I went to collect my car from the dealers today only to be told it's not ready because the wrong engine was sent to them. They purchased one with variable valve timing which is not the same as mine. I had a look on the web and there appears to be a difference of 15bhp between the engines but the mechanic said the ecu will not match and if they put the vvt engine in chances are it wouldn't start.

Bummer, loan car is a 2 door Micra for another week.