Migrant Crisis

[Ianb]

As usual I guess I tend to bring up heavy topics....

I was reading the news about this Hungarian news reporter who was sacked for tripping a man carrying his son and running from the police - he was a migrant...

I'll avoid the 'should we accept migrants' debate for now, but this particular topic seems strange. This lady was sacked for tripping a man running from the police... Looking at that sentence, what if he was a bank robber outside a bank, would she be sacked? What if he was a child snatcher and had just grabbed that child in the street and she had the opportunity to trip him but didn't, wouldn't the world be questioning why she did nothing?

Like I said, migrants yes or no aside, this particular topic seems a little twisted out of shape..

[Russ]

I thought similar, the man broke free from a police officer who had a hold of him and 'made a run for it' so as far as I see it she was helping the officer recapture him.

[WAZ91]

She recently reported that she thought she was being attacked, i dont see how but thats what she said.

the news is twisting this crisis to the max, one moment they are showing the sad side next telling of how the migrants are commiting criminal acts. The media cannot be trusted at all on this they are only interest in making money from it.

[jeebowhite]

the public is in uproar about this, its a debate of humanity versus reasonable sensible behaviour. from the humanity perspective, I can see why its awful she just sentenced that poor child to a good time without a father and possibly exiled them back to the nightmare they are trying to escape.

On the hand of sense, if I saw someone running from the police and I could possibly do something I couldn't say outright I wouldn't do it, but I think this occasion, her position in that role was an observer and this is why she was sacked. They are meant only to observe and by getting involved, she basically brought shame and embarrassment to the network.

As to the overall acceptance of migrants, we have the capacity in the north of england to accept them, I think those in dire need should be offered a helping hand! however, we should be doing everything we can to prevent ISIS from getting a free pass...

[Lenny]

As a Tax payer in a country which can't house it's own homeless irish national family's which the private banking system has put out on the streets.

Yet the government recieves bailouts from Germany to aid the banking crisis

I have to make a stand and say I'm personally outraged to hear Ireland is accepting 4,000 immigrant's through legal passage.

Yet we are an island which has zero natural resources to generate sustainable income for our own people.

Simply tax the working man even further while he struggles to provide for his own family.

Yes Ireland emigrated to other countries in times of desperation.

but Ireland returned to build itself a home.

it is the duty of our and future generation's to protect that investment and security which our ancestors devoted there lives to create.

These people have no homes to return to

They are emigrating with no intention of return.

Ireland would be better sending funds as it can afford to a more sustainable country which is capable of housing them.

We still have 2500 Romanian refugees held in a rat infested camp near Dublin, Government won't let them work yet tax payer covers there every expense and they are free to have as many children as they like with free schooling and leave to stay in the country until the last child is 18 year's old.

[jeebowhite]

Agreed about the country who cant look after its own. We have this issue where we cannot house the soldiers who fight for us. I think the issue is the location and the availability of housing, not many would wan to move many hundred miles for a home! For a migrant though, dropping them into an area who have offered the housing (Teesside said they can accommodate 500 migrants or so? and thats without thinking about it!) but I personally think there are many more places in the world who can afford to take these people on. We as a nation are proud to be supportive, yet, we struggle enough as it is!

[theredfox]

as was said on news on sunday by spokeman for german gov migrants cant pick and choose where they want to live and munich cant cope with the huge numbers flooding in to the city

[WAZ91]

The only way to stop more coming is to make their own countries safer, This will no doubt mean military action and a constant presence in these countries for years to come but surely that’s better then what is happening?

[Ianb]

The only way to stop more coming is to make their own countries safer, This will no doubt mean military action and a constant presence in these countries for years to come but surely that’s better then what is happening?

I don't know whether some of these countries are as "mentally advanced" as the western countries. We have our flaws, but Afghanistan is still hugely tribal, much like the Clans were in Scotland... They all hate each other, but they hated the English more, but then sometimes they'd happily screw over another clan etc, cuts run deep and wounds don't heal. I heard about one incident in Iraq or something where some Iraqi army soldier killed someone and said "that is for my cousin" (who was apparently killed in some booby trap).... I can understand that mentality, but it won't bring about peace...

Would they hate our presence more than what is happening now? Etc... Complicated..

[MONDEO TXS 2.2]

One of the many problems, as I see it, is that Western powers are damned if they interfere & damned if they don't

Iraq, under Saddam Hussein, as bad as he was, was at least reasonably stable, the same is true of Libya under Gaddafi - both were tyrants who ruled with an iron fist, but that's because they had to, to maintain reasonable order and they both knew that.

Syria is similar in as much as the people want '' democracy '' but are incapable of achieving it as tribal conflict overwhelms them & of course Assad is in the same mould and Gaddafi & Hussein

Once these two were removed all hell broke loose and it continues to this day.

Throw in a bunch of terrorists & the recipe for disaster is there

Arab mentality / culture / religion is very different to the prevailing Western equivalents & integration is not easy for either party.

Many of these people are not genuine refugees in the true sense of the word, but economic migrants in search of a better life, many are also spineless cowards who should be fighting for their Country and not running away when the going gets tough.

As stated by the P.M. the best way to help these people is to try & restore order in their respective countries - which makes the circle complete as that is seen as interference.

We in the U.K. & Ireland are fortunate that the Schengen agreement does not apply to us & although the U.K. taxpayer contributes more than any other E.U. country to the refugee camps in Syria it must be noted that the U.K. is £1.5 trillion in debt with a budgetary deficit in addition & too many of it's own citizens reliant on food banks, large scale unemployment, a social housing crisis & the shameful fact that we have ex service men & women sleeping on our streets.

I am all for helping those in genuine need and to do that effectively the U.K. needs to get it's own house in order first

[Ianb]

One of the many problems, as I see it, is that Western powers are damned if they interfere & damned if they don't

Iraq, under Saddam Hussein, as bad as he was, was at least reasonably stable, the same is true of Libya under Gaddafi - both were tyrants who ruled with an iron fist, but that's because they had to, to maintain reasonable order and they both knew that.

Syria is similar in as much as the people want '' democracy '' but are incapable of achieving it as tribal conflict overwhelms them & of course Assad is in the same mould and Gaddafi & Hussein

Once these two were removed all hell broke loose and it continues to this day.

Throw in a bunch of terrorists & the recipe for disaster is there

Arab mentality / culture / religion is very different to the prevailing Western equivalents & integration is not easy for either party.

Many of these people are not genuine refugees in the true sense of the word, but economic migrants in search of a better life, many are also spineless cowards who should be fighting for their Country and not running away when the going gets tough.

As stated by the P.M. the best way to help these people is to try & restore order in their respective countries - which makes the circle complete as that is seen as interference.

We in the U.K. & Ireland are fortunate that the Schengen agreement does not apply to us & although the U.K. taxpayer contributes more than any other E.U. country to the refugee camps in Syria it must be noted that the U.K. is £1.5 trillion in debt with a budgetary deficit in addition & too many of it's own citizens reliant on food banks, large scale unemployment, a social housing crisis & the shameful fact that we have ex service men & women sleeping on our streets.

I am all for helping those in genuine need and to do that effectively the U.K. needs to get it's own house in order first

Very well put and I agree, I've often said to people in conversations as you have said, that Saddam was unpleasant, but look at how the country ran before Western interference... His people weren't starving like some of these African despot countries, and Saddam appeared to have resigned himself to a life of just being the big cheese, his nation was indeed ruled with an iron fist, but people had businesses, careers and the like. I believe a lecturer of mine at uni graduated from a university in Baghdad (or somewhere in Afghanistan, I can't remember 100%), but what are the chances of that now?

[MONDEO TXS 2.2]

Tunisia is a fine example & a Country I've been fortunate enough to visit many times, before the '' Arab spring '' Tunisia was a moderate Country run by a moderate leader.

Since the moderates were deposed by the people hoping for Western style democracy, the country has become a breeding ground for terrorists, the tourist economy is largely finished & there's more poverty there than there ever was.

[WAZ91]

One of the many problems, as I see it, is that Western powers are damned if they interfere & damned if they don't

Iraq, under Saddam Hussein, as bad as he was, was at least reasonably stable, the same is true of Libya under Gaddafi - both were tyrants who ruled with an iron fist, but that's because they had to, to maintain reasonable order and they both knew that.

Syria is similar in as much as the people want '' democracy '' but are incapable of achieving it as tribal conflict overwhelms them & of course Assad is in the same mould and Gaddafi & Hussein

Once these two were removed all hell broke loose and it continues to this day.

Throw in a bunch of terrorists & the recipe for disaster is there

Arab mentality / culture / religion is very different to the prevailing Western equivalents & integration is not easy for either party.

Many of these people are not genuine refugees in the true sense of the word, but economic migrants in search of a better life, many are also spineless cowards who should be fighting for their Country and not running away when the going gets tough.

As stated by the P.M. the best way to help these people is to try & restore order in their respective countries - which makes the circle complete as that is seen as interference.

We in the U.K. & Ireland are fortunate that the Schengen agreement does not apply to us & although the U.K. taxpayer contributes more than any other E.U. country to the refugee camps in Syria it must be noted that the U.K. is £1.5 trillion in debt with a budgetary deficit in addition & too many of it's own citizens reliant on food banks, large scale unemployment, a social housing crisis & the shameful fact that we have ex service men & women sleeping on our streets.

I am all for helping those in genuine need and to do that effectively the U.K. needs to get it's own house in order first

The amount of times I have been called a racist for making that point (we need to sort our own problems first) is unbeliveable!

I agree with your point but thoses who dont, refuse to see it as a geniune point and would rather start calling others racist because in thier eyes we dont want to help the refugees. This is untrue as the genuine one do need help.

The word racist is being thrown around far to much and is used people showing thier support or airing an opinion.

[Ianb]

Tunisia is a fine example & a Country I've been fortunate enough to visit many times, before the '' Arab spring '' Tunisia was a moderate Country run by a moderate leader.

Since the moderates were deposed by the people hoping for Western style democracy, the country has become a breeding ground for terrorists, the tourist economy is largely finished & there's more poverty there than there ever was.

Going back to our earlier points regarding tribes/clans... Democracy is not something that can appear overnight, how many hundreds of years did it take of Great Britain to become a democratic country? A process of murder, mayhem, back stabbing, civil war, a foiled bomb plot and eventually we arrive at what we have today... It just happened that our rough period was done with swords and fairly rudimentary firearms, rather than AK's, missiles and chemical weapons...which are running rife through areas of the middle east...

I'm not really one that is anti everything the govt does, and I'm certainly not a 9/11 or 7/7 conspiracy theorist, but our intentions and the US' are pretty hypocritical if they're just down to the kindness of our hearts to help out poor folks, especially when we've welcomed Mugabe into our country many many times...

[MONDEO TXS 2.2]

Unfortunately the p.c. brigade & the do gooding, hand wringing numpties have ruined freedom of speech in this country & there is now a whole generation of permanently offended idiots who play the racism card at every opportunity

I am not p.c. & never will be, nor am I racist

[MONDEO TXS 2.2]

Valid point Ian

[WAZ91]

Maybe when Merkel gets her EU army she will go on massive land grab in the middle east :P

[MONDEO TXS 2.2]

Mugabe is a paradox - quite why he hasn't been topped is a mystery to me - but if he was, worse times would surely follow as anyone with any sense left Zim years ago - especially the white skinned people who emigrated to mainly Oz & S.A. & the U.K. & by and large have integrated well

[MONDEO TXS 2.2]

Frau Merkel's E.U. nightmare is only just beginning, it's a socialist dictatorship doomed to failure

[Ianb]

Unfortunately the p.c. brigade & the do gooding, hand wringing numpties have ruined freedom of speech in this country & there is now a whole generation of permanently offended idiots who play the racism card at every opportunity

I am not p.c. & never will be, nor am I racist

I do find it interesting how many people in the UK young and old are actually sick of political correctness... I've heard PC being defined as "The notion that you can pick up a !Removed! by the clean end"... I find it sad when people miss the point of a topic because they find a word used offensive.

For instance what if I was to offer a testimonial to the administration by saying:

"I thUnk that FOC forum is a great collection of people and knowledge with everyone trying their best to help people improve their vehicles, it has great guides, with pictures etc etc blah blah blah" would it not be better for them to turn around and say "that's great thanks, we're going to change thunk for think...." rather than, "you can't spell think properly lalalalalalalala, not listening, lalalalalalalala"....

[MONDEO TXS 2.2]

I am fortunate that I was born well before this p.c. ( Perverse Claptrap ) nonsense was invented by some wooden top with air for brains

[MONDEO TXS 2.2]

Thing is Ian, the younger generation have been brought up with it, whether they agree with it or not, it's been rammed down their throats & into their brains & everyday lives - the BBC are especially guilty of this

The older generation have not been subject to this & will not submit to it either

[Ianb]

Thing is Ian, the younger generation have been brought up with it, whether they agree with it or not, it's been rammed down their throats & into their brains & everyday lives - the BBC are especially guilty of this

The older generation have not been subject to this & will not submit to it either

My dad is old school, so I'm a bridge between new and old! :D

[jeebowhite]

The sentiment of p. c versus racist is always a tight rope to walk on but I agree with what's been said. What I don't understand though is why we allow countries to run themselves into the ground like this.

My history is shocking at best, but the Falklands are a UK governed country, yet did we not fight a war and recover the territory for not too dissimilar grounds to what we see in the wars we fight today? Why are countries in a more affordable position, not looking to fight to claim this territory, with a strict policy of reclaiming the land from the terrorists, but leaving the will of the citizen ad is (I. E. We may take your land and support you as one of our own for now, but we won't ram the Bible brigade down your throat and forbid your beliefs?

We do this with failing organisations all around the world, government is an organisation, so too is a non democratic state, so why do we as a civilised world, not look to treat it similarly?

The terrorists are the only ones who would care in the short term, but adopting the country and vesting money and support to it after the terrorists are removed, seems logical to get them back on their feet, restructure management and change the way things are, its no overnight process as Ian I believe said, but it's making that investment to support these struggling countries. Why do Europe not adopt it ad a European state, rather than a single country claiming territory, then rather than migrants of all varieties flooding to Europe, you have Europe flooding to Syria to dig out the dead wood, spread investment, encourage a working environment and turning the country around, with a means outside of bombing and hoping for the best.

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

[MONDEO TXS 2.2]

Defending one's own territory is a completely different matter to that of interfering with other sovereign states' ability to govern their own