Paramanic Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Right been reading and Apparently but of a debate some places others say dual all the way but Single pass is less efficient at cooling down but keep boost up Dual pass are far superior at cooling but boos pressure is a couple psi lower (as far as I can make out but not sure on my data) What you all think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarksST Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Isn't that pic for water radiators? Double pass on a intercooler is different. Think of a double pass intercooler as a single pass cooler (inlet and outlet at opposite ends) folded so the inlet and outlet are at the same end, it may cool better (it's never going to go below ambient) as the air is going through double the amount of intercooler but it's the bend and extra cooler length where the pressure will be lost. Unless you're going for a lot of power (hybrid or bigger turbo) then it's probably not important which one you go for, the only way to know which is better would be to try them all on the same car on the same rollers on the same day (not cheap or practical). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paramanic Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 A knew you would spot that Mark :P haha And a knew you would have a good answer cheers mate exactly what I was after Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarksST Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I think most of the intercoolers for the 1.0l are a compromise because of the available space and the hose layout, I prefer the ST shape cooler with the inlet and outlet at opposite ends, all the charge air goes through the cooler at the same speed pressure. With the airtec and r sport, to me it looks like the flow through the cooler wouldn't be right, the air will go for the path of least resistance and may not go to the ends of the cooler (opposite the inlet/outlet). They do look good though, right at the front filling the grill, I think that's the main reason most go for them, then price, lol. That Collins one does look impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paramanic Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 See a thought that they would go more to the inner side (least resistance ) unless there separation blades at the end of the dual pass but still ........ I like the st version as well as you say it goes straight through ...... Do you recon you could have a standard st version and added hoses to fit the bumper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eatonm112 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 When talking about inter coolers and pressure drops you first need to understand the physics behind it. If you are getting a pressure drop across the inter cooler that means it is doing its job as the inlet charge is being cooled and therefore shrinking in size BUT not in volume the best example I can come up with is that if you check your tyre pressures in summer it will be higher than it would be in winter this is because the air molecules expand when they get warm and contract when they get cold. When talking about engines we want to get the cylinders filled with a high volume of air at the lowest possible pressure as this is what makes power the pressure part is purely the engines resistance to having a load of air rammed into it. As for the single pass Vrs dual pass that depends on how big the cooler is on the fiesta the inter cooler is tiny so a dual pass is going to be the best solution providing that the internal passageways are big enough to support the airflow for the Hp you are wanting to make 1 Hp requires 1.5 cubic Ft of air / min roughly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imbalance Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I mounted the Airtec intercooler on my 1.0T 100ps a month ago, and i havnt got it mapped yet, my problem was the boyracer airfilter kit from AS, and i did'nt bring the original airfilter box and i had issues with judder and lacking performance, but i thought it was because of all the changes i made and the original map on the car.. The shop told me that they couldent map it because of the maf sensor might get wrong readings because of the aftermarket filter, but the airtemp dropped from normally 60-65C to 32-40C when they map 1.0T engines, as we know the smaller original intercoolers are hidden in the engine bay and also meet lack of airflow.. I went back home quite sad but fitted the original filter box and the judder issues went away, so im still waiting to get a new schedule to get it remapped once again My Airtec as well as others who mount it will see that the bumper covers most of it, there is only an inch "radiator" showing behind the grill, as the grill is not perforated in the bottom, i was fitting the airtec intercooler the day before and i ran out of time, i want to dremmel out 9 squares on the grill to allow more airflow to the intercooler before i map it next time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paramanic Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 I mounted the Airtec intercooler on my 1.0T 100ps a month ago, and i havnt got it mapped yet, my problem was the boyracer airfilter kit from AS, and i did'nt bring the original airfilter box and i had issues with judder and lacking performance, but i thought it was because of all the changes i made and the original map on the car.. The shop told me that they couldent map it because of the maf sensor might get wrong readings because of the aftermarket filter, but the airtemp dropped from normally 60-65C to 32-40C when they map 1.0T engines, as we know the smaller original intercoolers are hidden in the engine bay and also meet lack of airflow.. I went back home quite sad but fitted the original filter box and the judder issues went away, so im still waiting to get a new schedule to get it remapped once again My Airtec as well as others who mount it will see that the bumper covers most of it, there is only an inch "radiator" showing behind the grill, as the grill is not perforated in the bottom, i was fitting the airtec intercooler the day before and i ran out of time, i want to dremmel out 9 squares on the grill to allow more airflow to the intercooler before i map it next time... I take it u didn't have a heat guard on the filter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imbalance Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I take it u didn't have a heat guard on the filter? I had the guard on the kit contained, i was glad to get rid of it tho as the darth vader noises were annoying.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paramanic Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 That's a craps guard bud a would get mountune induction brilliant! Kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imbalance Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Here is the placement of my Airtec on my Fiesta, and its far from the ideal placement but the 1.0T compared to the ST180 upgrade, the overall pipe lenght would be 3-4 times longer i would guess, and the original pipe work and hoses 1.0T VS 1.6T is somewhat different as we know.. Its not 9 squares i need to modify, its 6 squares at the bottom of the grill is what i want to remove, but its quite hard to see easely on the backside where the cuts needs to start and end.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paramanic Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 Anyway of lifting the cooler higher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imbalance Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 That's a craps guard bud a would get mountune induction brilliant! Kit You're 100% correct, this kit and other kits like it make more problems, and the noises are insanely annoying, pfffssjt ALL THE TIME even at low revs and you cant drive around town without ppl thinking you're a !Removed!, i had a drop in hp when it was tested stock with this filter kit too, its also hard to fit properly and the filter is to big and it was touching the shield and other places.. I wanted the more expensive AS kit with the filter placed further to the front with a 90dg bend, but it was sold out. Pumaspeed has a simular kit, but the increase in induction noise is horrible so if im gonna upgrade it would be a kit like the mountune.. I found out the hard way that the maf sensor didnt like the way the air was fed through this cheap arrangement of a simple block welded to a pipe where the maf is placed.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paramanic Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 A had that problem too then found a mountune induction in breakers and got full kit for 85! Lol But my mate fixed the problem he got a stock boost pipe and cut it and attached it to the induction which bends down now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imbalance Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Anyway of lifting the cooler higher? There are 2 hard pipes with the kit and they have the same shape, and i guess you could but your also blocking more air to the water cooling radiator, the pipe going into the top is already touching the surrounding bodywork, and i could not lift it more then this with the shapes of the pipes, the lower outlet has more space to work with.. The Airtec cooler is only getting air through the grill, the bottom of the intercooler is hidden and no airflow from the lower grill is adding any cooling, that is why i want to open the top grill more for increased airflow.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mental_Atom Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Can second that the mountune induction is decent :D Bit more noise, but not annoyingly so and no other issues! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paramanic Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 There are 2 hard pipes with the kit and they have the same shape, and i guess you could but your also blocking more air to the water cooling radiator, the pipe going into the top is already touching the surrounding bodywork, and i could not lift it more then this with the shapes of the pipes, the lower outlet has more space to work with.. The Airtec cooler is only getting air through the grill, the bottom of the intercooler is hidden and no airflow from the lower grill is adding any cooling, that is why i want to open the top grill more for increased airflow.. The air comes in from top and bottom grill mate it is getting air flow just seems like it's not but it definitely is as it's a open area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imbalance Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Can second that the mountune induction is decent :D Bit more noise, but not annoyingly so and no other issues! I'm never going back to cone filters EVER, the extreme darth vader noise just dont fit a small eco car like the Fiesta.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mental_Atom Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I'm intrigued by the so called "darth vader" noise... *googles* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imbalance Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 The air comes in from top and bottom grill mate it is getting air flow just seems like it's not but it definitely is as it's a open area It does but the bottom airflow to the front mounted intercooler is nonexsistant, but the water cooling radiator is getting some air from there too.. As i wrote there are pro and cons to lift the intercooler, and its either to sacrifice some watercooling airflow, and you would need to make some other pipes if one chooses to use the Airtec intercooler kit.. The airtemp was measured and about 20C lower then the usual Fiesta suspects with the original inboard intercooler, the open filter arrangement would not make much of a difference, and one should know that the original filter box is arranged so the MAF gets the correct readings and making a map for a boyracer cone filter needs a lot more adjustments then i can afford.. My hp readings dropped from 108 to 106hp with the cone filter on, and a lot of uneven power without a new map, just be aware of this if you're thinking of buying a kit designed like the AS, and i would we weary about the R-Sport also and the like, and you need the correct mapping that includes these changes.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iantt Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I had the darth vader on my mazda3 mps , novelty of the noise soon wore off , esp on fairly light throttle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imbalance Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I'm intrigued by the so called "darth vader" noise... *googles* The induction noises are very prominent, and with a stock engine its show/sound and no go, and i would have been fine with it had i got 300hp, but not 155-160 as im aiming at.. The induction side is now not the issue even with the stock filter arrangement, the plug is now the exhaust.. But i want to keep mine as stealthy and quiet as possible, but i failed at the first try and as i felt obligated to fit a boyracer filter too.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imbalance Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I had the darth vader on my mazda3 mps , novelty of the noise soon wore off , esp on fairly light throttle. Exactly the same points i have about it, i got tired of it 15 mins after finished fitting all the pipework and filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iantt Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I had 320hp and that didnt help the vader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imbalance Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I had 320hp and that didnt help the vader I know and i guess there's never been the need for these big bucket like cone filters, and its something we/i've fitted without any knowledge about airflow.. I'm only 150£+ new hose out of pocket, as i had to cut and ruin a new silicone hose the fit it because of space issues. Please go for the Mountune style airfilter box or stick with the stock airfilter box, others are money down the drain imo.. Anyone have options for exhaust upgrades, maybe fitting 140hp model parts etc. after a downpipe+cat upgrade? - I want to wait with a upgrade here as i dont want a new rear bumper and want to hide the rear silencer tail pipe as the stock one.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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