m1tch Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Hi all, Just wondering about this, there is a butterfly valve on the left hand side of the engine after the pipe from the turbo to the inlet manifold. I have a feeling that it could be emissions related as diesels don't have throttlebodies as the fuel injected into the engine changes the rpms. Can anyone confirm what the butterfly valve is, its 100% open when idling as I did check, I did also notice that if you manually close the butterfly valve I can hear suction at the back of the engine. I am guessing that this butterfly closes when the EGR is active to increase the flow from the EGR into the inlet. I was just wondering if anyone had unplugged this at all or indeed can give me the use of this butterfly valve - I am guessing that this is emissions related though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerFlame Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Out of interest, how does the air intake work if the injectors adjust RPM? Is there something adjusting airflow into the cylinder too? I've never really looked into the workings of diesels. I know about EGRs, DPFs etc but actual workings don't interest me as mine is petrol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stef123 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I can't really answer the original question here as im not familiar with the engine - I suspect Iantt could though. Keiran, diesels are free breathers, meaning they dont control airflow but rather fuel flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerFlame Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I can really answer the original question here as im not familiar with the engine - I suspect Iantt could though. Keiran, diesels are free breathers, meaning they dont control airflow but rather fuel flow. Ah. Fair enough! Makes sense when it's put like that :)Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1tch Posted December 18, 2015 Author Share Posted December 18, 2015 Its also why if you overfill the oil in a diesel of a turbo oil line leaks into the inlet it will use the oil as fuel and burn it which is where you get runaway diesels - the more fuel the more it revs. I have a feeling that it might be partly an emissions device to increase the amount of exhaust gasses taken in via the EGR and might also be a shut off valve if there is an issue and it start to run away. All the previous diesel I have had have been slightly older so haven't really had much emissions or anything clever in the inlet manifold - it might also be a way for the ECU to meter the air slightly as well. Hopefully someone has a definitive answer on it, I can see it on some EPCs but its never labeled, wonder if I can try and find a part number on it - will also search around under the 'HDi' name as its the same engine as the 1.4 HDi. Edit - doing a bit of further reading it looks like some older HDi engines had a vacuum operated 'doser' valve in the inlet which does indeed close off the intake in certain conditions thus increasing the flow from the EGR. My guess is that this is an electronic version of the vacuum operated valve so it does look to be emissions related. I am tempted to unplug it to see if there is a code thrown, I believe that the butterfly can cause a sudden loss in power and a jerky idle if not working 100%. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerFlame Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 The run away thing is an interesting but scary thought! Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1tch Posted December 18, 2015 Author Share Posted December 18, 2015 The run away thing is an interesting but scary thought! Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk Indeed, its odd that the fiesta doesn't have an electronic oil check level like my Clio had - when doing oil changes I usually fill mine to half way up the dipstick to avoid any issues, I also keep an eye on the turbo oil seals as if they go on the compressor side oil can get into the inlet. I have also had to relearn about forced induction tuning as its basically opposite to petrols eg: With a petrol you want to make sure you are slightly rich on boost to avoid detonation, on a diesel you want to run as lean as you can on boost as if it runs rich the exhaust temperatures go through the roof - a well tuned diesel will usually emit a bit of smoke when accelerating then burn clean when at maximum boost. If its smokey all the time you aren't gaining any power but you are putting massive heat into the engine. There are usually adjustments on the pump (or this case the ECU) to reduce fueling when off boost to keep the engine smoke free - its basically making sure that the cylinder pressures are kept in check. My OM606 powered Mercedes is known to have very strong internals so will be aiming for around 400bhp and around 1,000 ft/lb torque - this is done quite simply by increasing the volume of fuel being injected into the engine (mechanical pump) coupled with high boost (2-3 bar) to force as much air into the engine. On another note, I do find it rather funny when people ask how to fit a blow off valve to a diesel - there are no throttle plates so the airflow doesn't bounce back down the inlet and also no vacuum source to operate it when you come off the throttle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONDEO TXS 2.2 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 A picture of this part would be useful 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomsFocus Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 It's both for emmisions and to stop 'shudder' on switching off the engine. It has nothing to do with the throttle itself. It works with the EGR valve - when the valve opens, the flap closes to limit air entering and allow more exhaust gas to be recirculated. When you switch off a diesel there is a tendency to shudder/stutter and closing the air intake completely stops this. It also helps in the case of a runaway diesel by removing all air but by the time you've switched the engine off there will already be pistons all over the floor...it happens so quickly you wouldn't react! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONDEO TXS 2.2 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I'm sure I've read about this valve somewhere before - isn't it called the diesel air intake control valve or similar ? I agree with Tom above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomsFocus Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I don't know what Ford call it. It's called an air doser valve on Peugeots. And an anti-shudder valve on VWs. All work in the same way regardless of name though! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1tch Posted December 18, 2015 Author Share Posted December 18, 2015 Thanks guys, I figured it would be something emissions related, also interesting to note about the shut off, my Clio didn't have a butterfly valve in the inlet and I did notice that it would run on for a split second after the engine was turned off - the Fiesta doesn't do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesFiesta Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Sorry to resurrect this thread but I have oil leaking from a unit which seems to be the item described here. Its on a 2006 fiesta 1.4 tdci. the unit is located on the left hand side (looking in) at the end of the turbo outlet hose at the inlet manifold. I'm confused because the Haynes manual states that the 1.4 tdci isn't fitted with an intake air shutoff throttle (only the 1.6). Also this unit isn't mentioned anywhere in the haynes manual event though they picture it. Can anyone confirm what it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesFiesta Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 On further inspection I notice the the valve I am referring to is attached to the inlet manifold and connects to the turbo outlet hose. The EGR tube enters the manifold opposite it from the rear of the engine - I'm guessing the this means that it is working with the EGR as suggested above to control amount of air from the EGR. Can anyone tell me what it actually is and why it would be leaking oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomsFocus Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 I would assume the 1.4TDCi has a doser valve as most 2000s onwards diesels do. The oil in the intake pipework comes from the crankcase breather, it should just be oil vapour but builds up over time. Where is it leaking from? If its one edge where it joins the pipe, the pipe clip just needs tightening. If the valve itself is leaking it may need replacing. A picture would really help if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesFiesta Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 It seems to be leaking from the body of the valve, its hard to tell exactly where from but the pipe clip is very tight but I'll take the pipe off at some point to check the pipe fitting. The oil gathers in the socket for the electrical connector - it might not be coming from there but just gathering since this is the lowest point. The haynes manual is clear that there isn't a shuttoff throttle and makes no mention at all of this valve. What are the symptoms of it leaking other than the mess of the oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesFiesta Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 I've taken some photos of the valve. The first one shows the valve from the top and gives an idea of where it sits. The second one shows the leak at the bottom of the valve and the third shows the electrical connector covered in oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomsFocus Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Yeah that's definitely an air doser/throttle body, whatever you chose to call it lol. It's only on the older 1.4 though, not on the later ones, which seems odd. Here's the proof from Peugeot Servicebox, its the same engine as in the 207. I can't really tell where the leak is coming from from the pictures unfortunately. The boost hose looks too clean for it to be coming from there. So I would suggest that it's probably coming from the valve itself, easiest way to fix that would be to replace it, there are plenty on eBay, though obviously another used one may have the same fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1tch Posted November 1, 2017 Author Share Posted November 1, 2017 Mine still has oil and muck leaking from it a bit - mines disconnected still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesFiesta Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Thanks very much for your help and the diagram is really useful as it looks exactly the same. I didn't think it was coming from the hose and I did take the hose off and reconnet it an made sure it was tight - it has not breaks in it. It seems that the oil is collecting in the electrical connection slot so my best guess is its the valve. Is it worth replacing the valve sine it isn't pouring out oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomsFocus Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 You'll be losing a bit of turbo-boosted air from it, if oil can get out then air can as well. Realistically I doubt it's enough of an air leak to notice in performance or economy, I'd probably just leave it myself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesFiesta Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 After cleaning the valve and the area around it, it has become covered in oil again and has dripped oil down the outside of the engine. I'm also getting much poorer mpg. Was previously getting around 60mpg and now getting around 40mpg. I would like to replace the valve but can't find one online. Does anyone know where I can get one or is it part of the whole assembly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomsFocus Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 There are a few used on eBay but may not be any better than yours - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2007-Ford-Fiesta-1-4-TDCI-MK6-F6JB-engine-throttle-body-9656113080/152518234419?hash=item2382cb9133:g:q64AAOSwJ4hY-NOq If you want a new one I think it'll be a main dealer only part. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1tch Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 Might also be easier to find a complete intake manifold - some include this part which you can easily remove as the seller probably doesn't know its a separate part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesFiesta Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Thanks for this I'll have a look on eBay and also for the whole intake manifold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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