Fiesta 1.6 TDCI turbo damaged after major service

[Cl0sing]

Hi all,

 

I just had my car serviced at a main dealer, major service (Motorcraft 4+). All is well driving it back from the garage until the next afternoon whilst returning from work I suddenly lose power as if the turbo has given up and I can hear a whistling sound. Since servicing it's done all of 10 miles, if that.

 

Take it straight back to the garage where they take it apart, quickly establish that somehow something has gotten past the air filter and gauze mesh into the turbo compressor and smashed all the blades to pieces. I could see pieces of blade resting in the oil recirculation after passing through the turbo (forgive me if this is not the correct terminology).

 

The mechanic held up the air box and shook it stating something like 'see there's bits in there, it sounded like there is perhaps the tiniest stone/washer whatever rattling around in there. How could there possibly be a way for anything to pass through a brand new air filter plus the mesh (completely undamaged mesh) and into the compressor?

 

I ask him this, he answers 'I have no idea'.

 

I tell him the car has been fine since I bought it over a year ago, is regularly serviced, just passed it's MOT with no advisories 2 weeks ago (the guy even said it's a really sound runner for a car with 77k/9yrs on the clock).

 

Basically the garage is not accepting any liability whatsoever and have told me their report deems that they are not at fault but cannot explain what has happened, just that is must be a huge coincidence. Bearing in mind the car is a sound runner, has had a major service every 10K, never had a problem with it, I drive it in with no problems and it blows the turbo a couple miles down the road. They have quoted me £770 for a new turbo and £150 to fit it, I am sure more work is required than this (surely after a turbo has failed shredding pieces of impeller into the engine I presume this should be a hell of a lot more work than a simple off/on job).

 

Please share any and all advice with me, I am stuffed. Feel like it's an ant versus an elephant.

 

Thanks all.

[Taylor22]

Perhaps it could just be a unfortunate coincidence? Im not sure on the mechanics of an engine.

If you're however convinced it's them having being negligent thats caused it perhaps get a second opinion from another garage? If they agree with you that this garage has done something wrong then I'd go to a lawyer and get them to write to the garage on your behalf threatening legal action sueing them for the full cost plus damages and legal fees. If the garage knows it was there fault they will cave rather than risk being forced to pay for repairs anyway plus the extras. I mention this option as a threat I wouldn't actually consider going through with it. 

[iantt]

i agree with a second opinion, surely the garage should know what caused it. does seem strange after a service.

normally when a turbo packs up it whines first or whines then siezes, i have known the blade retaining nut to come loose, fall of while turning and smash into blades. where is the car now?

[Cl0sing]

Thanks,

 

I am meeting with the manager today to see if we can come to some agreement. If they can't tell me exactly what's happened but at the same time reject any liability then in my mind that sound like they know it's them but are pulling a fast because they know I have no proof.

 

When I noticed the turbo go I'd only have done about 3 miles up to no faster than about 50, I could barley hear it but yes it was like a whistling noise when stepping on the gas, no smoke, a slight loss of power.

 

Inside the turbo the first 'ring' of blades are smashed to pieces, the rings that I can see after that look intact.

[Arwen]

Negotiate is your first step. They should be fixing it completely for you, or arrange some sort of compensation. Advice can be found here - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repairing-a-car/problems-with-a-car-repair/

Really hope the garage just accept the blame and sort it for you.

[TomsFocus]

I assume the airbox/MAF has to come out for an oil filter change on these like it does the Focus' right?  Probably dropped something in there while it was off!  It's not unusual to have little stones and sand before the air filter so I'm not sure why they'd point that out.

If the pieces of blade are small enough it may have got into the cylinders.

[Cl0sing]

Cheers for the advice all, I am taking things further with the garage, first meeting with the manager then complaints, Motorcodes and so on, perhaps I will end up in the small claims court.

I've asked a nearby turbo specialist if they would mind giving a second opinion & may also ask around local reputable garages for their stance also.

The way I see it, they cannot explain what has happened yet shortly after leaving their service bay my turbo is damaged due to pieces in the intake tubing/air box, the guy even shook the air box to demonstrate something is rattling around in there.

 

I would say then that this is a case of negligence during the servicing of the air box as they should have made sure no debris was left inside the air box before replacing the filter and putting it all back together.

 

Seeing as the car has been serviced more regularly than is even required and has passed every MOT, the last being only 2 weeks ago with no advisories I cannot see how they think they have a leg to stand on. Saying ‘I can’t explain how it’s happened’ and then ‘But it wasn't us’ just doesn't cut it.

The only piece of blade I found in the oil recirculation hose was I would say about 4mm x 2mm, each blade had snapped around the same point so I possibly have about 6 chunks of blade floating around my engine although I have read that the turbo oil recirculation hose goes directly to the sump/oil filter, anybody know if this is true? If so I may be able to just swap out the old turbo for anew as the oil quality is fine.

I am aware of the 1.6 TDCI turbo failure Technical Service Bulletin but this turbo hasn't failed due to oil issues.

Thanks again all.

[TomsFocus]

There may be metal swarf in the oil so I'd change that anyway, but you shouldn't need to do the pickup etc unless there are signs of carbon build up.

I think you're getting the turbo oil hose mixed with an air hose?  The oil drain hose comes out of the bottom of the turbo straight to the sump.  The fins should be in the airways somewhere between the turbo and manifold unless they've passed the valves and got into cylinders.  If yours is a 110 with an intercooler they'll probably be in there as that's the lowest part.  Don't suppose you got any pictures of the damage?

[Cl0sing]

Glad you've said that, I know the TSB states there are about 27 steps that need to be completed before fitting a replacement turbo if the old one failed due to an oil related problem. So I should be good to just replace the turbo along with oil change/sump clean?

The turbo oil hose is the one I found the shards in, so you're saying the shards have passed all the way through the engine, made their way back into the turbo and exited through the turbo oil hose where they would end up in the sump/oil filter? Sorry I'm not a mech, have no real idea how the turbo works with the engine.

I will be getting pictures and will post them here asap.

Thanks.

 

 

 

[TomsFocus]

I'm not sure I explained that well, that's not quite right...  Pictures will help. :)

The oil hose in the turbo is between the two fans (turbine and impellor), the turbo would have to be catastrophically ruined for you to see that oil hose let alone get fins in there (which it may well be).  But I think it may be an air hose you meant, the air hoses will be oily as well just make it complicated.  A picture will help identify here though.

Turbo intake system is really simple, it's literally just a boost pipe between the impellor side of the turbo and the inlet manifold, possibly with an intercooler in the middle.  This is where I'd expect the pieces of turbo to be and all of that will need to be cleaned out before fitting a new turbo. 

The problem is, we just don't know how far pieces of turbo may have spread.  And as you can imagine, metal swarf or chunks of fin in the engine cylinders, oil-ways or the new turbo will ruin it.  Personally I'd clean the sump and flush the oil, clean the whole intake system (boost pipes, intercooler, manifold), check there aren't any lumps of turbo sitting on the valves and just hope anything small enough to get into the cylinder has been blown out through the exhaust without doing damage.  Other people may do it differently but that's my opinion.

[jbell]

Honestly from the description you gave it sounds more like intercooler or associated hoses to me. I had the same symptoms after a small crash (snow :( ) where I'd popped a hole in the back of the intercooler. 

Have a feel around the pipes that feed into and out of the intercooler (drivers side just behind front grill in engine bay). Also have a look at the front and back of intercooler. 

 

I'm probably wrong, but just in case I'm not -- those pipes are a lot cheaper than a new turbo!

[Cl0sing]

Yeah jbell I initially hoped it'd be something simple like a cracked hose but I've seen it now, the turbo impeller has been destroyed by a nut or something.

No way anything could have passed through the air filter so I can only assume that whilst changes the oil filter they have removed some hoses to make it easier to access and unwittingly dropped something where it shouldn't be and killed my turbo, they deny any wrong doing but what other conclusion can there be?

Just a coincidence like they keep telling me I suppose. 

[iantt]

Got a photo of the intake on turbo and vanes?

[Cl0sing]

4 minutes ago, iantt said:

Got a photo of the intake on turbo and vanes?

I will be getting pictures ASAP, the car is parked at the dealers/garage. I've not started it up since they shown me the damage, probably won't do until we have truly come to loggerheads then it's either off someone else for a second opinion or just pay up.

 

It's still okay to drive, just slow as sh*t right now and makes a horrible whistling sound on boost.

[m1tch]

4 hours ago, Cl0sing said:

I will be getting pictures ASAP, the car is parked at the dealers/garage. I've not started it up since they shown me the damage, probably won't do until we have truly come to loggerheads then it's either off someone else for a second opinion or just pay up.

 

It's still okay to drive, just slow as sh*t right now and makes a horrible whistling sound on boost.

I would pull the intercooler off and see if you can see what was ingested, doubt it would have made it past the core etc - I would suggest not driving it though, it will be really slow as it will now be a 1.6 litre NA diesel with a turbo restricting the intake!