DPF issue

[Miasma]

Hi everyone,

Looking for a bit of advice if possible. I bought a 2005 Ford Focus Ghia TDCi in February. I've found that it's not as smooth as I'd expect, I notice it a lot on the motorway. It feels like the engine is stuttering, I'm not sure how best to describe it but it just isn't smooth. It can feel sometimes like somethings happening directly under the footwell 

 

Anyway, I took it to the garage shortly after buying it but they couldn't find anything. Now out of warranty, a red light came on with a 'engine systems fault' message. Took it to a different place and the code was pointing at the DPF. They've refilled the fluid but couldn't get it to regenerate so asked me to take it on the motorway. Done that but the light is still there with the same code...

Firstly, do you think the two problems are related or entirely separate? Secondly, has anyone had the same problem with the light staying on? From what they said, this could cost me a lot just trying to diagnose why the red light is still on...

Thanks for your help!

[Alb]

Hi, I had exactly the same issue with my 2007 2.0 TDCi, I changed the DPF for a new one bought on eBay refilled the pat fluid and had the counter for the additive reset and it was still holding back though the light was off. It turned out that the fuel filter was needing changed so I did that and haven't had any issues since. I just drove to Ireland and back and the car ran perfectly. The DPF has a life of approx. 80,000 miles and will need changed after this as regenerating it is temporary or sometimes impossible due to the soot build-up, The DPF I bought cost £180 and was well worth it. It also wont regenerate unless it has 20 litres of fuel in the tank.

[Tdci-Peter]

Light will probably stay on until reset, even if dpf is now clean. A standard OBD2 reader may be able to do this.

Or use Forscan, see my post in:

It can, I believe initiate a regen, and clear the light. If that fails, new DPF may be needed, as Alb says.

Worth checking the DTCs though first, faulty DP sensors (read the drop across the DPF) are not unknown.

[mikeyd1]

I thought dpfs did not get fitted untill 2008 upwards. Learn something new everyday ay

[Miasma]

2 hours ago, Alb said:

Hi, I had exactly the same issue with my 2007 2.0 TDCi, I changed the DPF for a new one bought on ebay refilled the pat fluid and had the counter for the additive reset and it was still holding back though the light was off. It turned out that the fuel filter was needing changed so I did that and haven't had any issues since. I just drove to Ireland and back and the car ran perfectly. The DPF has a life of approx. 80,000 miles and will need changed after this as regenerating it is temporary or sometimes impossible due to the soot build-up, The DPF I bought cost £180 and was well worth it. It also wont regenerate unless it has 20 litres of fuel in the tank.

Hi Alb,

Thanks for this info. Can I ask - did you also experience the engine stuttering when you had this issue? If so, I feel like my mind will be put at rest a bit. 

I'll just post what my garage said regarding what they did:

There is a DPF fluid recognition fault. The fault code stated this issue and so we topped up the dry reservoir with 1 litre of fluid. We tried to do a DPF regeneration but it wouldn't do it. I advised you to drive the car and see if it would do it automatically whilst on a long drive. You have stated the light is now on again, we haven't been able to check the new fault code but I am assuming it is the same. We don't know the history of the car. If the DPF has been taken out previously there may be an error with the ECU remap that hasn't mapped out the fluid top up requirement. If the DPF is still in then it may be an issue with the part itself or the associated wiring; it needs further investigation..

Since that message, I had the code checked and it was indeed the same code. 

One more question - am I able to take the DPF off myself? I've never done anything with cars so don't know where to start but I'm used to working on computers and building them so I feel like I should be able to get a basic grasp of what I'm doing! Im just wondering if I can take it off and see what kind of condition it is in...

[south_bound]

I see that you are in Somerset - I would take the car to Gareth at Avon Tuning near Bristol who would sort this out for you once and for all, cheaper and more reliable than messing about with dpf replacements and fluids.  Did mine there about 2 or 3 years ago and no issues since. Ask about deleting the egr as well for good measure. 

[TomsFocus]

Spoilt for choice in Bristol, that's where HDi-Tuning is as well, might be cheaper than Avon.  

As for taking off the DPF yourself, yes it can be done with basic tools.  But due to the shape of them on our cars, you can't see inside anyway.

[Dee_82]

 

2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Spoilt for choice in Bristol, that's where HDi-Tuning is as well, might be cheaper than Avon.  

As for taking off the DPF yourself, yes it can be done with basic tools.  But due to the shape of them on our cars, you can't see inside anyway.

that 90 bend on the bottom that literally looks like someone grabbed it with two hands and bent it to the side, is stupid, if I knew my metal work id consider lobbing the bottom off and adding a collar for a proper 90 degree mandrel bend.  That restriction alone probably contributes to the quick death of the DPF

[south_bound]

5 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Spoilt for choice in Bristol, that's where HDi-Tuning is as well, might be cheaper than Avon.  

As for taking off the DPF yourself, yes it can be done with basic tools.  But due to the shape of them on our cars, you can't see inside anyway.

 

Just looked them up and HDI-tuning is located only about 50 yds from Avon in Tockington (funny that I never came across them before!) - are they related?  That said, I have been impressed by Avon enough to prefer going back than risk someone else who might not do a s good a job.

 

[TomsFocus]

I don't know if they're related tbh.

HDi Tuning is one of the most recommended for the Peugeots (I'd had maps from him previously for 306 HDi's) which is why I asked if he'd do the DV6 in the Focus seeing as its essentially the same as in the PSA cars and I can't complain about his services at all tbh.

I would imagine Avon are more expensive as they cover all makes and models and are better known but I don't know what they'd charge.  Worth asking at both maybe!

[Miasma]

Hi,

I bought myself a thing to read the errors myself and used Forscan on my iPhone. This is what has come back - neither will clear. Anyone had both of these before?

Thank you all for your help

[Tdci-Peter]

Forscan really does try to be a helpful tool, but sometimes takes a bit of interpreting & jargon busting.

It does look to me as if the present problem is not the DPF itself, but the additive tank & its sensors. P1932 is from the FACM (Fuel Additive Control Module), and this is probably then generating P2585 in the PCM. It seems the system has not recognised the addition of the additive done by the garage.

I seem to recall reading that there is no level sensor on the tank, it simply counts regen cycles and guesses the level, and has to told to reset its regen count when re-filled. Or something like that.

1) Possibly they did not actually add any, Forscan suggests the level is visibly checkable, worth a look.

2) Possibliy the sensor or some part of the FACM is faulty.

3) But hopefully, they may not have properly told the system that the fluid was added. "Refill the fuel additive tank" service function is the key here. Have a look in the service or maintenance menus of Forscan, see if this service function appears, and if so, run it.

Then it may be possible to reset the DTCs.

The system will not even try to regen with these errors present, it thinks the tank is still empty.

Peter.

[simcor]

The FACM counter needs resetting if it has been filled up. If the counter has not been reset it will cause the MIL indicator to come on. Forscan can reset the indicator with a suitable interface.

[Miasma]

Trying to get Forscan installed on my work laptop. I've got the following product to connect to Forscan with, hopefully it'll work....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B016I5WYVS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Dee_82]

probably will, but personally I would use the USB version, less problems and quicker at getting the data.  I have a bluetooth one and a Wifi one and both aren't very good when It comes to its updating speed and neither will let you monitor MS-CAN

[DJ_Andy_M]

Something worth considering is a Teraclean on the DPF, EGR and engine. I've had it done on my 1.6 TDCI, and believe me it made the world of difference and saved an expensive bill on a new DPF.

[Miasma]

Sorry for the late reply, had quite a few things going on.

Short story is that this is still ongoing. EML has now gone out after the garage managed to force a regeneration for the DPF. However, engine is still misfiring. I'm thinking that they are possibly two separate issues. I've taken the car into Halfords Autocentre today and they called telling me that there are no fault codes showing - despite me telling them that there are no fault codes! Currently debating whether I should pay their £50 charge when I collect the car.

Anyway, I'm at a loss now with regards to the misfiring. I don't really know where to go with it... Has anyone got any pearls of wisdom? I will say that after they did a regeneration, it felt different to drive for a short while afterwards. Since misfiring, it almost feels a bit lighter when pulling away

[Tdci-Peter]

23 minutes ago, Miasma said:

garage managed to force a regeneration for the DPF. However, engine is still misfiring

You might be right about the two faults. I do not recall seeing your car engine type: Is it the 1.6TDCI?

DPF issues: Forscan can monitor & display information such as km from last regen, distance to ASHFUL (estimate of remaining life of DPF), the exhaust temperature (indicates regen taking place if high enough), the DPF DP (pressure drop, indicates blockage, and will drop if a regen works). Put together this can indicate quite well if your DPF system is working ok now.

Misfires / Power dips: This may be the EGR valve, or the throttle valve on the air intake. Both of these can stick open / closed, or operate roughly. If these valves are not working properly, this will also cause poor DPF regen, or prevent it altogether.

Major malfunctions should show error codes that can be read by Forscan, but minor ones may not. These valve are not too difficult to remove and inspect / clean, I believe.

There are other causes of power dips, fuel & injection problems in particular, but I suggest go for the valves first.

Peter.

[Dee_82]

mind that regens will only burn soot and then turn it in to ash, it will fill up and it will restrict airflow, which will have an effect your turbo spooling up and will give you a loss of poer, but as peter said, there are a lot of other things that can cause issues I thought most of them flagged an EML though

 

[Miasma]

29 minutes ago, Tdci-Peter said:

You might be right about the two faults. I do not recall seeing your car engine type: Is it the 1.6TDCI?

DPF issues: Forscan can monitor & display information such as km from last regen, distance to ASHFUL (estimate of remaining life of DPF), the exhaust temperature (indicates regen taking place if high enough), the DPF DP (pressure drop, indicates blockage, and will drop if a regen works). Put together this can indicate quite well if your DPF system is working ok now.

Misfires / Power dips: This may be the EGR valve, or the throttle valve on the air intake. Both of these can stick open / closed, or operate roughly. If these valves are not working properly, this will also cause poor DPF regen, or prevent it altogether.

Major malfunctions should show error codes that can be read by Forscan, but minor ones may not. These valve are not too difficult to remove and inspect / clean, I believe.

There are other causes of power dips, fuel & injection problems in particular, but I suggest go for the valves first.

Peter.

I've got a 2.0 Focus Ghia. I'm currently trying to get hold of a laptop as my screen stopped working. Once I get that I'll hook it up to Forscan again...

 

Would a DPF generally cause misfiring, or what feels like misfiring? I'll bullet what I've observed on this:

 

 - Stuttering engine, seems worse when there is an incline

 - MPG is getting lower. Used to be just above 50 MPG, It's dropped to 46.5 and only seems to be going down

 - When it misfires, it feels like it's coming from below the drivers seat, it feels like something there is stuttering

I'll try and read up on how I get to those valves. Thanks for your help with this Peter, your responses are very helpful!

[simcor]

Does it stutter all the time on the motorway or is just sometimes whilst on the motorway. Mine can stutter quite a bit when it is doing a Regen even quite fiercely noticeable. But it only does this when it is doing a Regen cycle.

[Miasma]

10 hours ago, simcor said:

Does it stutter all the time on the motorway or is just sometimes whilst on the motorway. Mine can stutter quite a bit when it is doing a Regen even quite fiercely noticeable. But it only does this when it is doing a Regen cycle.

It's sometimes, but once it's started stuttering then it's fairly constant. This might be a stupid question but is there a way that I can see when it's doing a regen so I know if that is the case?

On another note Simcor - the PDF you have in your signature, will that be relevant to my car? It's a 2005 Focus Ghia, 2.0 diesel. I can't get to the link at the moment as I'm at work...

[simcor]

When mine stutters it is very noticeable but only lasts for a short duration while doing the regen cycle. if it is doing a regen then it should be using more fuel, the engine fan should be on and "small clouds of white smoke should be visible from the exhaust" although mine smokes a heck of a lot when coming off the accelerator during a regen. Also if using forscan you can read the DPF filter temperature as it should rise up getting as hot as 600-650º I find my pre filter temp varies between 150-300º during normal driving, only when it is doing regens does it start to rise dramatically getting over 400/500º.

The PDF link covers all 3 diesel engines, 1,6, 1.8 and 2.0 yes.