1.8L TDCi Engine Code

[ianc65]

I had a cam belt failure with my 2008 Focus Estate (107k).  Mechanic friend had a look and told me that this particular engine had a lower 'fibre belt' and not a chain, and when this breaks it can wreck the whole engine and not just bend a few values.  He recommended I go for a reconditioned unit rather than trying to repair it but any replacement has to have the correct engine code.

Does anyone know where I can get the engine code?  I have looked on-line and I am sure that the engine is a Duratorq Lynx engine but found a list of >20 codes associated with the 1.8L TDCi.  Anyone know how to make 100% sure before I spend £1000 on a reconditioned unit?

Thanks

[ianc65]

Just found the V5C document, Variant KKDA1S, Version EURO45KAB NY.  Now I've see KKDA as engine code on various websites so I guess this is the code I'm looking for?

[Tdci-Peter]

32 minutes ago, ianc65 said:

engine had a lower 'fibre belt' and not a chain, and when this breaks it can wreck the whole engine

Hi,

Sorry to hear about the belt.

I do not understand the lower fibre belt bit, I thought all these engines used a double chain from crankshaft to fuel pump, and then a toothed belt from here to the camshaft. Usually a very reliable system, but perhaps that is the problem & the belt was left just too long

But regardless of that, he is probably right about engine damage. The valve stems are vertical, and the pistons come up so close to the flat cylinder head that varying thickness gaskets are needed to get the right clearance. When a piston hits the valve, the forces will be immense, could distort or break all sorts of bits.

I can not help much with codes I am afraid. I bet most of the variants are mechanically compatible. The PCM is probably the most likely part to be incompatible, it will probably need re-coding for new injectors at least.

I would try asking the (potential) engine supplier. They may be able to match engine code to VIN off the Ford database.

A report on the progress of this project would be interesting to have on the site, so please keep posting any results or questions here. There are some very experienced & knowledgeable people (much more so than me) prowling round this site!

Peter.

 

PS: I have just noticed this topic was posted in two different places, & I have copied my answer here, as this is the Focus Club, and seems a better place, not that Anyone takes any notice of the forum headings here normally! It is complete chaos.

I have also seen your addition. My V5 is identical (apart from address & reg no etc, hopefully.) except the variant is KKDA1W. I doubt if that last letter affects compatibility, probably just a batch or build ID.

[ianc65]

Hi, my mechanic mate says that the lower belt of the 1.8L TDCi can be fitted with either a chain or 'fibre' belt.  The older versions of this engine tend to have a 'fibre' belt which when he described this sounded like a standard toothed rubber belt.  These teeth can strip and then the top and bottom become out of sync and bang!   I have seen some comments about a 'wet' belt but not sure if this is the same thing, also seen auxiliary belt which could also be same?  However he had seen this happen before and it was a very expensive thing to repair, hence a 2nd hand or reconditioned engine would work out cheaper.

If I get the engine changed do I need to inform DVLA?  How would this affect resale?

All things I need to weigh up before getting the job done.

 

Thanks

Ian 

[Tdci-Peter]

5 hours ago, ianc65 said:

The older versions of this engine tend to have a 'fibre' belt

I just looked around for this lower belt, & found a kit on eBay, with this description:

The Chain Drive was fitted to the vast majority of Ford 1.8 Diesel engines as standard up to 2007.

Most engines produced after 2007 were fitted with a oil-submerged rubber belt which is prone to failure.

Fitting this kit will allow your engine to be run normally with a more-reliable chain drive instead of a timing belt set up.

 

That suggests the belt is a cost reduction thing used by Ford after 2007, so your newer (2008) car may have the belt. Well, I have learnt something there! Sounds like a real bad idea, as this belt has to drive the massive load of the high pressure fuel pump as well as the camshaft & water pump. Yuk.

 

This date agrees (roughly) with my Haynes, which covers 2005 to 2009, but does not mention a lower belt at all.

 

If the damage is already done to your engine, may be best to get a pre-2007 replacement if possible, to avoid the belt.

 

RE, DVLA: I am sure that if the overall spec. (power, emissions, Euro rating) is the same, then notification is just a formality, and should not affect insurance or resale value.

 

[ianc65]

Well done for this research - this sounds exactly what was describe to me apart from the older/newer design confusion.  I guess the 'wet' belt references I've seen refers to this one as it runs in oil !  What a crazy idea to have replaced a chain with a rubber belt soaked in oil, and as this is not accessible for inspection a real nightmare.

Now to find a replacement - fingers crossed, x-ray eyes at the ready!!

Ian

[GMX]

 

2 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

RE, DVLA: I am sure that if the overall spec. (power, emissions, Euro rating) is the same, then notification is just a formality, and should not affect insurance or resale value.

This is correct  When I changed a Volvo engine, DVLA just made a note of the replacement engine number and issued a new V5 with that on it.  The insurer said it made no difference to them, when it's like for like.  Unless I was putting a different and/or more powerful engine in.

There's quite a few Foci Mk2 & Mk2.5s with replacement engines, i noticed when I was looking for one.  Possibly because previously they had the same problem with the fibre wet belt.

2 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

That suggests the belt is a cost reduction thing used by Ford after 2007, so your newer (2008) car may have the belt. Well, I have learnt something there! Sounds like a real bad idea, as this belt has to drive the massive load of the high pressure fuel pump as well as the camshaft & water pump. Yuk.

1 hour ago, ianc65 said:

What a crazy idea to have replaced a chain with a rubber belt soaked in oil, and as this is not accessible for inspection a real nightmare.

This is what happens when accountants rather than engineers are in charge

[ianc65]

Thanks for all the comments.

I have just see a 2004 1.8L TDCi for sale with £100k on clock, I am wondering if this has suitable engine.  Looking at Autotrader the specs for the 113bhp version is very similar my 2008 TDCi although some slight discrepancy in CO2 and Tax. My car has slightly lower figures but I wonder if this is more to do with body weight rather than engine type.  Any good websites where I can check what engines were fitted back in 2004?

Thanks

Ian

[mjt]

On 30/06/2016 at 1:06 PM, ianc65 said:

What a crazy idea to have replaced a chain with a rubber belt soaked in oil

The 1.0L EcoBoost has a wet cambelt. That should be interesting!

[TomsFocus]

Think about why rubber fails though...  It dries out and cracks, if you keep it lubricated with oil it should last much longer.  Chains aren't great either, they stretch and the tensioners wear making a horrible rattle.  There isn't really a perfect solution for something that needs to be so flexible.

I'm also fairly sure the 1.0EB isn't designed to last 20 years like the older ones were, don't think I'd fancy one at 10 years old tbh!  Only time will tell how reliable they are at that age.

[mjt]

22 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

There isn't really a perfect solution for something that needs to be so flexible.

There are better solutions though, but more expensive which us why we're lumbered with non-ideal ones. OHC engines have been built with geared shafts to drive the cams. They can also be driven by a gear train though that can be noisy.

[JW1982]

There is nothing wrong with a wetbelt as long as the maintenance scheme is followed correctly and the car does not have a DPF. On the 1.8 TDCI Ford changed the timing chain for a wetbelt because of fuel economy and engine noise. This had nothing to do with costs (a wetbelt is even more expensive than a chain). A wetbelt is much quieter than a timing chain and has a lot less rolling resistance than both a timing chain and a (dry) timing belt. This resulted in a slightly lower emmision output which was necessary to (barely) meet emission regulations.

Most wetbelt failures are a result of using engine oil which does not have the correct specification or excessive DPF regeneration. During DPF regeneration a lot of extra diesel fuel is injected to raise the DPF temperature. A part of this extra fuel passes the piston rings and contaminates the engine oil. When the car is regenerating excessively the amount of fuel that enters the engine oil can be quite a large amount. Both an incorrect specification engine oil and engine oil contaminated with diesel fuel can affect the material of the wetbelt.

A broken wetbelt is pretty rare on a 1.8 TDCI in a Focus MK2.5 because it does not have a DPF. Other Ford models like for example the Transit Connect did have a DPF. On these vehicles  a broken wetbelt is a lot more common. The biggest reason is that many Transit Connects are used as delivery vehicles and do not reach the conditions that are needed for succesfull DPF regeneration. 

 

Whether the car has a timing chain or a wetbelt also depends on the market the car is made for.. The wetbelt on the 1.8 TDCI was introduced  on the focus MK1. Because of different regulations some countries did have the wetbelt while other countries still had a timing chain.

 

The 1.0 ECOboost does even have 2 wetbelts. the first wetbelt drives the camshafts while the second wetbelt drives the variable oil pump. Mainly because of the wetbelts the 1.0 ECOboost engines require a different type of engine oil than all other Ford engines. The changing interval of both the wetbelts of the 1.0 ECOboost is 10 Years or 240.000 KM/150.000 Miles. In some articles Ford says that the wetbelt should last for the life of the engine. This suggests that the expected life of the engine should be about 240.000 KM/150.000 Miles.

[iantt]

ive seen ecoboosts 1.0 with 100k + , still running fine and quiet.

[mjt]

Great post Wilco. I'd always though that oil and rubber were a bad mixture but I guess if it's a compound like that used for oil seals it can run quite happily in that environment. It's fairly obvious that running wet with oil will significantly reduce wear and frictional losses but, again, I've always been under the impression that one of the things that limits belt life is the continual flexing, especially if it's subjected to a serpentine run. The technology has obviously developed to a point where this is no longer an issue.

[ianc65]

Hi Wilco, thanks for the additional information, my mechanic mate says he has worked on a few Transit Connect vans with this issue so that all ties up.

My Focus has been services by Ford approved garages so I'm pretty sure it has had the correct oil and having done only 107k I am guessing  that this belt wouldn't have been inspected during a service (IF it is part of the service routine).  However, you did mention the DPF.  Is this the part which dumps great cloud of smoke if the car is accelerated hard in 3rd gear??  As this car only does short trips of approx. 20 miles/day, the smoke screen occurs quite regularly, could this reduce the durability of this part?

I still haven't decided what to do with the car but it sounds like the wet belt is quieter and more economic, but can be damaged by contaminants which are more likely if used on short trips  I had to replace the dual;mass flywheel ( and clutch) at 98k so was hoping not to have any more expensive parts go but it sounds like this wet belt will be something else to watch out for.  As quite a few of these engines will be reaching 100-120k in the next few years, I wouldn't bet on this issue being uncommon in 3 years time.

cheers for now

Ian