Mk6 1.4 TDCI Won't Start when warm

[niko 85]

Hi all , I have the same problem with one volvo c30 2.0d 136ph ford motor d4204.

When the engine is hot it starts immediately after shut down. But after 10 minutes it cant be started. If I wait 30-40 minutes the engine starts.

- I changed cam and crank sensors with brand new ones.

- next step was high pressure fuel pump. It was sent to bench test and the guys said that they test it on a much higher temperature than the engine can reach and that the pump is ok.

- after that I take of the fuel injectors to bench test , and the result was again good. The only thing in them is that one of it is class 4, all others are class 5. The guys from service told me than only electromagnetic cover of the injector is probably changed.

- after that I changed fuel pressure regulator and fuel quantity regulator with brand news and the problem still remain.

I have delphi diagnostic and I started to check values from it when the car is hot and wont start. And surprise fuel pressure in common rail is only 80-100 bars when I try to start it. The car have new battery and new starter.

Please advice! What else to check it, "chebhou" where exacty on the injectors you put cold water, because I have a filling that some one of the injectors may stuck in open when its hot and the pump cant make sufficient pressure (200 bars) for start up.

[niko 85]

Well nobody gave a opinion, but lets say that the car is fixed, the problem actually was piezo part of one of the injectors. And actually in hot conditions (80 degree fuel temperature) the service test bench cant find the problem because fuel temperature there is only 55 degree. After changing of the problematic injector everything is ok!

 

[carisshagged03]

Hi guys, I know that this thread is likely dead, but I'm just a silly uni student with absolutely zero knowledge of mechanics and an intermittantly faulty Fiesta Mk7 1.4 TDCI. 

I have had the car since January, and have had problems starting it throughout my time owning it. I have had all 4 injectors replaced earlier this summer, around July time, and just this evening I had a horrific start for the first time since before I got the injectors replaced. 

 

What happened (and happens) specifically is that I stick the electrics on for about 5/10 secs whilst I get ready to drive to let the glow plugs heat up and such. I then go to start the engine and it turns and cranks, and either does not fully 'kick in' and start, or does so in such a strange way wherein it sounds like it is running on 2 or 3 cylinders, spewing white smoke out the exhaust, and not getting any response from the accelerator at all for about 10 seconds before it feels like it fully 'kicks in' (again I am really sorry if I'm crap at describing this problem, I have literally zero knowledge of mechanics).

 

Eventually after about 5 minutes of it idling very roughly it seems to sort itself out - it stops chugging and sounding like its running on 2 or 3 cylinders, but in the past when I've had this problem it has failed to start at all without a bump start. 

What has been the most annoying about this problem is its intermittant nature - I do not know when it will strike next and it never seems to throw up any error codes at all. 

I understand if I don't get a reply. Did you keep the car in the end Wightstar?

Thanks for reading guys. 

[Tdci-Peter]

2 hours ago, carisshagged03 said:

let the glow plugs heat up and such. I then go to start the engine and it turns and cranks, and either does not fully 'kick in' and start, or does so in such a strange way wherein it sounds like it is running on 2 or 3 cylinders, spewing white smoke out the exhaust,

That is exactly what happened when I had one faulty glowpug. Though it only happened in quite cold weather, and it is a different engine. Very rough and loads of smoke, for the first minute or so of running.

But the first thing I would check or change is the glowplugs.

 

[TomsFocus]

I wouldn't be leaving the ignition on for so long myself.  The plugs are cycled on and off, after 10 seconds they may well be cold again.  (Plus, it's probably more than 10 seconds if you're fiddling with the belt and music etc first).  Keep an eye out for the light on colder mornings, but in moderate temps I'd just give them about 3 seconds between ignition and start, see if that makes any difference.

If you do decide to have the glowplugs changed, be prepared for some wincing and sharp breath intakes...mechanics hate doing glowplugs on older cars lol.

[Tdci-Peter]

10 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

after 10 seconds they may well be cold again.

I also make sure I crank the engine the moment the glowplug indicator light goes out. That does seem to be maximum temperature of the plugs on my car, and in cold weather it can make a big difference. If I miss it by more than a couple of seconds, I cycle the ignition for another heat cycle rather than risk trying a start with cooler plugs, especially while soldiering on with a 10 year old battery! Plugs take quite a whack of power out of the battery, but a failed cranking attempt takes a lot more.

I could of course be sensible and cough up for a new battery, but that goes against my nature!

Last summer I was very pleased when I managed to get the remaining pair of old plugs out without any great problem. I had changed two in 2017, including the dud one mentioned above, and that dud one was not easy, it fought me almost the whole way, and I was worried it would break. But it did finally come out intact, though bulges in the casing were evident.

[carisshagged03]

15 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

That is exactly what happened when I had one faulty glowpug. Though it only happened in quite cold weather, and it is a different engine. Very rough and loads of smoke, for the first minute or so of running.

But the first thing I would check or change is the glowplugs.

 

Thank you very much for the fast reply, did not expect it at all. I'll have my local garage check and/or change them and will get back to you all.

Thanks again guys 👍

[carisshagged03]

Hi everyone, thought I'd give you all an update, incase anyone else out there is following this.

Haven't been able to get my car into any garage yet as they are all fully booked with MOT's and are otherwise busy. On the phone the mechanic suggested it would be less likely to be glowplugs as the ambient air temperature is still high enough, however he suggested it could perhaps be the EGR valve getting clogged up as a lot of my journeys have been on the short side (6ish miles to my place of work). 

Also looking on the invoice from the garage where I had my injectors replaced, I don't see anywhere them listing the fuel filter being replaced.

Have had a few horrific starts the past few days. One of my colleages who considers himself something of an amateur mechanic had a look under the bonnet to see if he could spy anything when I started it, and whilst it was idling rough and such he unplugged and replugged the MAF sensor (I think) which seemed to have little to no effect on how the engine ran, when I revved whilst it was unplugged and replugged there was little to no change in how the engine was behaving. 

Then again, it may not have been the MAF sensor that we unplugged as it didn't throw up any sort of engine management light, which I would have thought it would have, but as I say god knows I am no expert on these things, and it may just be the car. 

 

Anyways, just thought I'd let you guys know.

Is there anything at all that would suggest it was either a problem relating to electrics, fuel or air, rather than having to guess between all three? Would the engine sound worse if there was more things pulling power i.e. reverse light and sensors, headlights etc or would it have zero impact?

Thanks again guys. 

[Tdci-Peter]

6 hours ago, carisshagged03 said:

On the phone the mechanic suggested it would be less likely to be glowplugs as the ambient air temperature is still high enough,

Yes, I did say it happened to me in cold weather, and my car, like most common rail engines, seems to start ok without plugs in warm weather, but there are always exceptions.

I have just noted that you suggested that the symptoms were similar to what you had before the injectors were changed. An injector that did not operate properly until it got quite hot (running engine) would have a similar effect of running on 3 cylinders. I wonder if the wiring loom to the injectors was changed or tested when they did the injectors? There have been a few reports of people with bad wiring looms on these cars:

Usually injector faults put on the warning lamp, or at least store a DTC in the ECU which can be read by a diagnostic system, but many cars are a bit less sensitive to faults during starting & warm-up, as many things are less predictable during this phase. Checking with a decent Ford specific system like Forscan might be a good idea.

So that loom is one electrical possibility. Heavy electrical load does not normally make any noticeable difference, unless the battery is weak and can't supply the load, perhaps.

 

 

[YBTURBO]

when its sounding/running rough is there any smoke from the back and if so what color. Tdci-Peter is correct about the many wiring issues i ended up making a new set of wires for my injectors separate from the main loom however i had another issue after sorting all that and it would get rough randomly run on 3 and with forescan (no other apps picked it up, torq etc.) i had a code telling me injector 3 was down. so again i got to stripping everything down to get to the injector, pulled it and found it wasnt a dead injector it was a WET injector. i had a leak in the gasket letting water into the cylinder and that was the cause of my problems. on this occasion K-Seal Ultimate done the job.

 

the main thing i failed to look into when it happened. first i foolishly didnt check or keep an eye on the coolant so didnt notice the loss, and secondly i didnt pay attention to the exhaust. if i had looked at either i would have had more of an idea as low coolant without a leak means it must be going into the engine, and the smoke was almost white a good sign your burning coolant.

main thing i have learnt since getting this car, ALWAYS look at everything even if you dont think its related. i have no idea what they were doing when they built these engines but they are special to say the least.

one final note though they are quite and smooth when looked after and about as cheap as your going to get on fuel and car tax 🙂

[brad5074]

Hey up people. I've had this issue for last few weeks. Really researched it and didn't come up trumps. Read everything on all forums, couldn't fix it and manage to find a fix that worked for me that no one said... Coolant temp sensor. £15 quid and an absolute doddle to replace. Took it out it's a clip and pull it out, you lose about 2l of coolant, switch sensors and reverse. Fixed first time. Hope this helps!! 

2010 fiesta 1.6tdci