2013 Ka 1.2 with misfire codes (P0300, P0301)

[briscaF1]

Hi all,

Posting on behalf of my Dad who has a 1.2 "Fiat" Ka with the above codes as read by my ELM327.

He said that he was doing over 70MPH (which is rare) for a short period the other day when he got a loss of power and some dashboard lights on (triangle, something else). He slowed down and got off the dual carriageway he was on and the car was driving roughly but seemed better at lower speed. When he got home, he said it was idling roughly and if he stood around the back at the exhaust, he could tell it was "missing."

He cycled the ignition (waited a few mins before re-starting) and it was back to running OK with steady idle and no loss of power.

I read the codes off to find P0300 (random or multiple misfire) and P0301 (misfire on cyl. #1).

We've not done anything to the car but I guess the investigation order is:

a. Injector lead(s)

b. Plug / lead.

c. Coil pack (but wouldn't this involve two cylinders?)

d. Injector (maybe swap between cylinders to see if fault follows?)

e. ECU

f. Compression test

?

I guess it's not something like a valve or bad compression as it wouldn't have gone away so I'm thinking it's electrical or an intermittent injector?

Any help on this would be appreciated...

Thanks

[Tdci-Peter]

13 hours ago, briscaF1 said:

I guess it's not something like a valve or bad compression as it wouldn't have gone away so I'm thinking it's electrical or an intermittent injector?

You seem to have covered just about everything I can think of!

Fuel pump & fuel filter could be added to the list, but well down near the bottom, as they are less likely to be intermittent or cylinder specific.

Temperature sensitive bad contact or other electrical fault (inc plugs & HT leads) seems most likely.

If you can download Forscan (uses an ELM327), it can monitor fuel trims, and various other stuff. If it is not plugs & leads, this might help narrow it down a bit.

 

[iantt]

Ht lead or plug. When was plugs done last, 25k intervals.

[briscaF1]

Thanks for the replies.

I'll try the Forscan - I was using torque on my phone but I find it can be quite limited (free version).

As to the plugs, they were replaced less than a year ago and the car has only done 25k. I guess they could be gapped wrong or the wrong type? 

I think he's taking it to a mate with a garage so I'll see if what he says matches up with the info here.

Just for info, is there anything particularly problematic with these 1.2 engines which are presumably a fiat Fire unit and not a ford lump?

Thanks again!

 

[iantt]

cam sensors, crank sensors, engine breather pipes collapse, that's about it, not a bad engine as such.

[delboy]

when my daughter needed a gearbox seal replacing the garage told me that if its a ka they use the ford lump in it but some of the electrics are fiat.

i would change plugs for a better quality plug and a ford set of leads.

but it does seem you have it all coverd

 

keep us posted on the outcome as the info can be of help to other users on the forum 

[iantt]

Its nearly all fiat with a ford badge.

[briscaF1]

Thanks all.

I'm surprised what the garage said about it being a Ford lump since I thought the only engine they made at around 1.2l was the 1.25 yamaha/zetec that's been around for yonks now.

Will let you know what happens.

[iantt]

they know nothing. lol

[briscaF1]

OK, so....

My dad took it to his mate's garage and agreed with my fault finding sequence.

His mate spoke to his mate at a Ford dealer who said it was almost certainly the injector since they did 'two a month' at least. When ringing around for a part, the guy at the local motor factors said that injectors were a common problem on the Ka...in the end, he got a genuine Ford, sorry, Fiat part which was about 150 quid.

For belt and braces, the plug and lead were also changed on cylinder #1 which send a good precaution.

Total cost - £225

Something to note for anyone else with this problem.

Incidentally, the car is just out of warranty and is low mileage....I warned him about buying a Fiat ;)

 

 

[iantt]

ive never changed an injector , strange.

[briscaF1]

Unusual then?

Just out of interest, how do you find your 1.0l Focus? I didn't think small petrol turbos would be much good until my Mrs had a 1.2 TSI Skoda and the engine is really quite nice. I just worry about the long term reliability of the turbo - do you change the oil much more often than the service schedule, for instance?

[iantt]

Normal oil change intervals are fine, I see quite a few with over 100k and run smooth and quiet.

My focus has bluefin , so if any turbo is going to go pop is mine. Lol , I'm on 48k , good as new.

[briscaF1]

Interesting. If you'd have told me about 10 years ago that cars as big as a Focus would have a 1l engine, I'd have laughed but its interesting how things have come on.

I get the impression you are involved with servicing Fords - and sorry for taking this off topic - but were there problems with the early small Ford turbo lumps ? Components melting, for instance?

[iantt]

Think your referring to the 1.0focus, then the Degas hose being made of plastic went brittle due to high coolant temps, broke and coolant loss. Modified pipe fixed it.

[briscaF1]

Understood. No other things to watch for / problems with these engines?

I haven't been keeping up on Ford's turbo engines but, as I understand it, in the smaller displacements, there are:

1.0l turbo 3 cyl.

1.5/1.6l turbo 4 cyl.

(not sure if there isn't a 4 cyl around 1.0l also?)

All these good for well over 100k if serviced regularly?

I ask because it's likely that I'll end up with one of these engines at some point in the future when I think about replacing my Focus..unless I end up doing the "unthinkable" and get an Octavia estate. I've not owned anything other than a Ford since my first car in 1989 but I really need the space.

[iantt]

Like any engine , you look after and service engine regular then it will run high mileages , Ive got no plans to sell mine anytime soon. If I had any doubts or knowledge of reliability issues , then i would have not bought one.

[Omendata]

So you would recommend a Focus Ian?

What do you think of the Fiesta - It seems to get a very good rep!

It looks like I may be trading in the Streetkrap and going for either a Corsa or perhaps a Fiesta or now maybe even a Focus 1.0 Zetec lol?

 

[iantt]

fiesta is a good choice, if i didnt have grown up kids to ferry about then i would have a fiesta 1.0 125. (bluefin extra of course)

[Omendata]

Yeah my mother bought an ex demo Fiesta two years ago and its been rock solid and quite good on the fuel side!

I am a bit of an old fairte im afraid, even though im a computer and electronics engineer i hate cars with ecus and ccus and bluetooth etc

Just more and more to go wrong - If I could I would have a Ford Escort Mk II 1600 Xflow or Pinto that would be sheer joy!
The days of the Capri and Escorts were the easiest, stress free days of car mechanics.
Ive had more stress with this Streetkrap than even my old Rover 820si and it was a pig at times!
Even my "Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious" has been more reliable on the electrics side and thats saying something.

I have a Dutton Phaeton S3 1600 Xlfow in my garage but its been rebuilt so many times now and im getting past that amount of car mechanics so
I am putting the carcass and engine on Gumtree for £700 soon.
 

[briscaF1]

That's funny, Omendata. I'm also in automotive electronics and I try to avoid technology on cars as much as possible as, like you say, it's more to go wrong.

Don't get me wrong - fuel injection and electronic ignition etc has made cars far more reliable (petrol, that is) and gone are the days of me messing about changing points on my Mk2 Escort every month because it was cheaper than replacing the worn distributor but half of the cobblers on cars these days (like folding mirrors and spoilers that are 10mm wide and pop up at 30mph) are a complete gimmick.  For example, if your car is so unstable that it needs an addition spoiler to keep it on the road at 40mph, perhaps something else would be a good idea but I'm sure they get people walking into showrooms and asking for "one of those cars where the spoiler pops up" ;)

[iantt]

had a porsche in an overtake manouvre at 50mph today with the rear spoiler extended. yeah, right , not getting past me on a short piece of dual carridgeway ha ha, spoiler or not. 

[adrian-owen]

hi, i;m just wondering if you got to the bottom of the misfire cause on the ka have a 2012 ka 1.2 with a random misfire at around 70mph  fault code p0302 and p0303 ignition failure fault code for cylinder 2 & 3 i suspect ecu is at fault coil pack spark plugs and leads have been replaced also injector 2 & 3 have been swapped with 1 & 4 but fault hasn't moved with injectors any info appreciated

[J12GAL]

Did anyone get a definitive repair/answer for this fault 

🤔 

[cmrliles]

Hi, 

Just following on from this thread, i have been experiencing the same problem. So i took the car to the ford garage and they said i needed 2 of my injectors changing on cylinders 2 and 3.

I went ahead with it and got them done there, I pick the car up this morning, but on my drive back i got up to 70mph and the problem hasn't gone away. 

Any ideas on what to do next? and help would be much appreciated  

 

Cheers,