Focus Mk3 1.6 TDCI problems

[Scott3823]

Hi All,

 

I am new here as only collected my Focus estate 1.6 TDCI about 6 weeks ago. It is a 2012 car with 60000 miles on the clock.

I really like this car and it has surprised me how nice it is to drive given that it is an estate, however I am quite unhappy with the engine. I have come from a Skoda Fabia 1.9 TDi that pulled like a train and still delivered mid to high 50's mpg. On the Focus I am struggling to get low 40's MPG, and this is taking into account the 5 MPG over read on these cars. There is also some strange hesitancy issues, in first when crawling it can sometimes lurch and bounce around when revs drop below about 1300. It will also hesitate at motorway speeds if you are not definite with the throttle. For example if you are coasting and then apply throttle it can lurch.

As additional info that shouldn't be relevant but will mention just in case, it does vibrate a bit too much at idle, is probably the lower engine mount so am not worried about this yet.

Does anyone have any ideas? I have run Forte turbo/egr cleaner which is supposed to be quite good in case there is a turbo or egr problem I get no fault codes (I have forscan). I have also run some injector cleaner. I would be happy to update the PCM but how do I find out my current version and where to I get the PCM updates from if I was do it myself?

Apologies, I know this is a long post, but so many searches just bring up mk1 and 2 focuses and not the mk3's. Thanks in advance.

[Jezza54]

Hi, my 2012 1.6Tdci for comparison is also slightly rough on idle, although I've been told it's normal. A hesitation that I occasionally experienced at motorway speed has stopped now that I use the higher quality fuel. I can sometimes get the kangaroo petrol effect at slow speeds if I'm not positive with the throttle.

You should definitely be getting more than low 40's mpg though. 53-55 is my usual.

How about discussing these issues with a good remap dealer?

 

 

[Scott3823]

Hi Jezza,

Cheers for the response. Good to know this MPG isn't normal. I do use Millers EcoMax in every tank. This does make things smoother and I was very impressed with it in the Fabia. I have also already had it remapped, this improved the response at low revs and made it pull a little cleaner, but didn't affect the MPG's or the hesitation. That's part of the reason i'm slightly reluctant to ask a stealer about the PCM upgrade as I would then need to get the map reloaded I believe.

[Typhoonf2]

hi. i usually average 60 mpg in mine but i mainly do motorway runs so it would drop if i was in stop/start traffic etc. regarding the vibration mine idles spot on but about 5 months ago i started to get vibration mainly down the centre console took it to fords under warranty and they said they couldnt find anything wrong with it. 

[Scott3823]

Yeah, the vibration i'm not too worried about unless it's part of a bigger issue, although I wouldn't say it's normal as you can see the sun visor vibrating at a high frequency. Definitely secondary to MPG issues though.

The best i've managed is 48 MPG on a 180 mile journey on Motorways and mixed B-roads, average about 55 mph. Normal commute is about 7 miles on b roads 20/30mph with 15 miles on motorway barely breaking 70mph. In this kind of scenario i'd expect well into 50's (I am realistic and basing this on the Fabia) but barely manage into the 40's. The current tank has 100 miles on it and i'm showing 41 MPG when adjusted for the over read.

[Ryan_Tango]

I average about 55MPG these days, my first gear is okay but would like more power from it without having to rev up too high, my idle is fine not rough at all. Motorway driving can't say I have any issues with lurching but why coast anyway? You're not saving any fuel.  

[Scott3823]

If you are in traffic and coasting to keep the distance from the car in front, it's when you get back on the power that it might lurch.

Anyone have any suggestions for the poor MPG? Definitely seems like mine is pretty low.

[Jezza54]

Have a look at aa1car.com

There is a section headed poor fuel economy

loads of reasons listed including EGR valve, oxygen sensor even dragging brakes!

 

 

[Noonie]

I have a 2015 1.6 tdci, and I have just this week started to put in vpower diesel. Although it's not really got in the flow of the engine yet, I was regularly achieving 58-60 mpg just around town and mid 60s on motorway.

[Jezza54]

Yes I agree that v power diesel is really good

[Tdci-Peter]

10 hours ago, Scott3823 said:

There is also some strange hesitancy issues, in first when crawling it can sometimes lurch and bounce around when revs drop below about 1300.

I think these diesels should pull perfectly happily at idle speed 800 - 900 rpm, even in 2nd or 3rd gear on the flat, or up an appreciable gradient in 1st. They may need some nursing to get from this band into the normal power range. That is true for my 1.8, and I have heard it said for the Mk2 1.6. It is hard to see why the Mk3 should be worse.

I think I would get the DMF looked at by someone who knows what to look & listen for. Hesitancy, lurching, vibration are all possible, though I don't think this would affect fuel economy.

MAP & MAF problems are possible, as are injector problems. Forscan can monitor MAP, MAF and fuel rail pressure, which might yield some clues, but separating cause from effect may take a bit of expert knowledge. An injector leak-off test may be worthwhile. Especially if the car is under warranty, finding poor injectors now would be a good thing.

Getting tests done by another garage may be worthwhile, the warranty garage might be tempted to err on the "ignore" side!

 

 

[Dee_82]

you know when the fuel filter was last changed?

[Scott3823]

Cheers for all the great responses on this, much appreciated.

The car isn't under warranty any more, is a December 2012 that was previously owned by a lease company. It has a full service history with another one due in 1500 miles (62500). I was planning on renewing all filters - oil, fuel and air.

I am using Forscan with an OBDLink MX wifi so I can do some logging and proper investigation. There aren't any fault codes appearing. I have also completed some long motorway journeys where the DPF could happily regen if needed. I will ask a garage about this at some point but I am happy to try a few obvious things that would benefit the car anyway first. Once the garage gets hold of it I will ask about the fuel injectors etc.

Personally I would like to block the EGR in case this is in any way involved (although I have read some posts where this has actually reduced MPG's which is concerning!). I would also like to update the PCM, but would like to do this myself. Anyone know where to get the files for this? I have read the FoCCus can be used for the flash but i'm not sure this is right?

TDCI-PETER - When pulling away you need to give it some revs, normally a small prod of the accelerator takes it to 1500 rpm, if you then crawl in the traffic queue and the revs drop to less than 1000 in first then it will kangaroo on you till you slip the clutch or give it more revs (not possible in a traffic queue!).

[iantt]

pcm update probably required, next then will be injector tests. remapping wont be doing it any favours.

[Tdci-Peter]

1 hour ago, Scott3823 said:

I would like to block the EGR in case this is in any way involved

95% Yes. These later engines are more fussy about the EGR flow rates, and are likely to give an error if it is just blanked off. I think it would need a re-map to disable the EGR, and then blanking should not be needed, as the pcm would not try to open it, if it was re-mapped properly. However, with Forscan to read the codes, blanking could be useful for diagnostic purposes.

Even on my Mk2 1.8 ("archaic" engine according to some!), the pcm does detect and control the egr flow. When blanked it opens the valve fully, when unblanked it controls the valve in mid range. But it does not complain, no EML.

1 hour ago, Scott3823 said:

the revs drop to less than 1000 in first then it will kangaroo on you

Changing the air & fuel filters is a good first step, but the high fuel consumption, and unstable running, suggest a deeper fault. All the main bits must be basically working, as there are no DTCs, but some leak, blockage or out of calibration sensor may be throwing the engine off tune.

Just seen Ian's reply. He has more experience than most of the rest of us put together, I will leave it at that!

[Scott3823]

49 minutes ago, Tdci-Peter said:

Just seen Ian's reply. He has more experience than most of the rest of us put together, I will leave it at that!

Well, looks like a PCM update is the way to go then, thanks Ian. 

Is there a way to download these updates to install at home or does it have to be an expensive trip to the dealers for this?

[iantt]

Dealer as far as I'm aware, has the fuel filter been changed in the last 20k? As for the egr ,they don't seem to play up on the mk3, yet. Lol and don't know anyone successfully blanking one off yet, unusual design shape for blanking.

[iantt]

[Scott3823]

Right, OK. I did wonder why I didn't see much on this process in any of my searches, not for the Mk3 anyway. Back to the drawing board on that one then! 

Think i'll go for PCM and all filters at the next service and then see how it goes. 

Cheers for all the responses, wasn't expecting such a good turnout 

[Scott3823]

Hello again all,

I have just run a trace on the car using Forscan on my 24 mile journey home. In that time the Throttle Position moved from 87% once and the Throttle Position Sensor Voltage stayed stubbornly at .66 volts. That suggests to me that the Throttle Position sensor is screwed. All other parameters were looking pretty good, fuel rail sensor, MAF sensor, EGR, DPF etc all looked good.

If indeed these readings are accurate, wouldn't the car run like a sack of spuds if it thought the throttle position was at a steady 87% the whole time, or would it compensate and cause the exact problems I am having?

[Tdci-Peter]

41 minutes ago, Scott3823 said:

In that time the Throttle Position moved from 87% once

I think you are looking at the wrong PID.

On this diesel, the throttle valve is used as part of the egr or dpf systems (possibly), and when stopping the engine. It does not normally control the airflow or vehicle speed.

On my car the relevant PID is APP (Accelerator Pedal Position). For an example,  see http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=42953