Bought a lemon haven't I?

[Ken cats]

I bought a 06 Focus 1.8 TDCI Ghia a month ago. It will run well if I let it run for 5 minutes before I drive it. Otherwise it smokes, judders and no power with the engine system fault light flashes on and off.It runs perfectly when warm.

Had it serviced last week, a slight improvement but it has failed to start twice after being out. My local garage put the diagnostic thing on it and found high fuel pressure code. Said it needs a specialist to diagnose the issue further, but suspected the fuel pump. This was replaced brand new 46K ago.

A friend advised my to sell the car ASAP as the fuel pumps are well known for going on this model. 

Does anyone know if these fuel pumps are dodgy? I don't have much money now to spend after buying the car, service and put four new tyres on it. It's a really nice car and great to drive. 

Anyone any advice please? Is it a lemon? 

Many thanks.

[briscaF1]

I don't know much about the diesels but I have heard about (1 person I know) problems with the fuel pump. That said, I know a few other people with diesel a Focus and they have no problems. If you look elsewhere, I'm not sure if there isn't a thread about their being two different diesels in the Focus and one is to be avoided but that might be for a Mk 1.

I suppose the obvious question is whether the fuel pump was replaced with a genuine part ?

[nazsky786]

If it is having issues when cold, then this is a temperature issue. 

meaning a cold car that is shooting black smoke out rear is not burning the fuel inside. 

Diesel burns with heat, the heat a cold engine it's glow plugs?

Have glow plugs been checked? If this is fuel has it been pressure tested within spec a certain load?

 

[Ken cats]

Thanks briscaF1. I've been reading through the forum for a couple of weeks looking for some insight. I don't know whether the pump fitted is genuine, at £675 I'd certainly hope so. I was hoping for it to be the regulator or a sensor but without indepth diagnostic assessment, and more money I won't know for sure. I just can't believe that it could be the fuel pump that's playing up so soon. Thank you, I never thought that the pump fitted may not be genuine.

[Ken cats]

Thanks nazsky 786. That is why I initially thought the problem might be a simple one, as the car runs well when warm. My friend advised I take the car out and drive it briskly, when I did that the engine system fault light came on several time with some lose of power very briefly. That's why he said he thought the fuel pump was playing up. 

The car hasn't had any further testing apart from the garage putting the diagnostic on it and only saying high fuel pressure code found. I'm reluctant to keep spending money I don't have incase it just spirals into a never ending money grab. Would the glow plugs show a fault on the diagnostic machine? 

I admit I don't know much mechanically but I don't understand how the car drives nicely just plodding about after the engine is warm. Although when I drove it a bit harder than I normally drive it wasn't very happy! 

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

[briscaF1]

No problem.

Have you tried this?

You can look at the error codes (DTC) without using a garage or OBD2 dongle.

For the OBD2 dongles, you can get these for 10 quid from eBay and bluetooth pair them to Torque running on an Android phone (or there is PC software available). These dongles are very useful as you can read/clear error codes and also look at engine sensor values on the car which may or may not be useful in solving this problem. They're a good investment anyway as they work on any car....

This might be useful in looking at an error codes after the loss of power especially if the engine management light comes on.

 

 

[Ken cats]

Thanks briscaF1. I'm thinking at the minute I will get the specialist diagnostic done on it. If it is repairable at reasonable cost I'll do that. If the fault isn't found or it too expensive the lovely car is gone! :) I don't want to try getting into reading codes myself as I have no clue what I'm doing and the whole saga will drag on and on. Lets just hope the problem is found and repairable as I like the car, but not enough to endure months of stress and expense. Cheers.

[briscaF1]

The codes are pretty easy, to be honest.

Go into the dash, see if there are any faults.

Let's say there is a P0301 and a P0300.

Look it up here: http://www.ecutesting.com/p0300_fault_codes.html

It'll tell you what it is.

For example, you may see a P0381 etc relating to the glow plugs.

If nothing else, it tells you if someone at a garage is pulling your leg and give you an idea of where to start.

[Tim1985]

Evening all, in your initial post you mentioned High fuel pressure, this may indicate several things. Possibly fuel pressure regulating solenoid (back of fuel pump looks like a big nut with a plug on) faulty pressure sensor on the fuel rail (same again looks like a big nut with a plug on but this ones on the fuel rail which looks like a spider in the front of the engine!) also could be an injector playing up and not properly opening  / closing when required. 

either fault would require some live data to determine the faulty component.

i would doubt an overall failure of the pump its self as the symptom would likely be low fuel pressure!

any how, good luck!

[Tim1985]

forgot to mention that the 'dodgy' fuel pump stigma associated with these engines refers to its early tdci years where a delphi fuel system was fitted but I would imagine you car to be one a siemens VDO system which is generally trouble free!

[Ken cats]

Yes briscaF1 thanks. That is a good point! And thanks for that useful link, I may look into this then as I'd be able to reference what the codes meant. I'm not in friendly terms with my usual garage as the car came back from it's service covered in scratches and the bonnet lock broken! Thank you.

[Ken cats]

Hi Tim, your post has put my mind as ease somewhat. I think it is the siemens system in the car I have going by what I have read, so that's something good. it would make sense to me that if the fuel pump was faulty the pressure would be low, not high. I do know that the fuel pressure sensor was replaced at the same time as the fuel pump 46K ago, I found receipts in with the car paperwork ( a £1367 repair after a breakdown! ). I'd be quite pleased if the fault turns out be something not too major and would get it repaired as it really is a nice car, handles nicely and very comfortable. 

I mentioned to the other chap briscaF1 that I'll get the specialist diagnostic done and hope that they can pinpoint the trouble and I have some hope now that all is not lost. I will of course let the forum know what happens as maybe my experience can help someone else in a pickle . Thank you kindly for your time and input. 

[Tdci-Peter]

1 hour ago, Ken cats said:

I'm thinking at the minute I will get the specialist diagnostic done on it. If it is repairable at reasonable cost I'll do that.

I would agree with what TIm said above.

The Siemens pumps seem to be quite reliable. A limited, early batch of the Delphi pumps in the Mk1 focus had major problems with internal disintegration of some sort, fixed long ago now.

If the pressure is too high, it is hard to see a problem with the pump itself. It will most likely be the pressure regulator valve, which is quite easy and not too expensive to change. Or it could be the IMV (flow regulator valve) or the pressure transducer. The pressure transducer seems to be readily available now, but I have not seen the IMV on sale anywhere.

If you have a windows laptop, or possibly an iOS or Android phone/pad thing, then Forscan can monitor fuel rail pressure, read all diagnostics, and show the IMV operating. It needs a little technical know how, but it is actually much easier than it might first seem.

I think you are right about the Focus with the 1.8TDCI engine, I like it.

[Ken cats]

Thank you Tdci-Peter. I've read a lot of your posts on the forum! I am feeling much more relieved knowing the pumps aren't as wicked as I was led to believe, as I've spent my money buying the car. It's been a tad stressful I can say. I'm optimistic I'll get it sorted now and be able to enjoy driving it (though I enjoy driving it anyway!) I'm so glad I thought to ask the forum before I just disposed of it, that would have been my second mistake. 

I'll get it checked out with the specialist. I'm trying to learn all these terms and parts names, hopefully I won't seem like too much of a pudding at the garage and I will report back what they say.

I'll be over the moon with the Focus if I can get it to behave, a nice solid feeling car and a big upgrade from my Peugeot 206. Looks rather smart too :)

Thank you so much for posting and suggesting potential culprits.

[Russ]

Did you check the glowplugs like nazsky suggested?  -----> http://m.wikihow.com/Test-Glow-Plugs

(there's an easier way using a length of wire but I think the above method would suit you better)

[Ken cats]

Thanks Russ, that is nice simple guide. If I can get the bonnet open (that my garage broke...) I will have a go with the multimeter. to check the glowplugs. Would faulty glowplugs show up on the diagnostic the garage done last week? It is normal for the preheat light to come every time I start the car isn't it? 

I see from above that you had a Viva, one of my favourite cars although I never owned one but my brother did.

Thanks for the info, I'm off to talk nicely to the bonnet catch with a screwdriver. This could be fun :)

[FatHead1979]

The glowplug light will always illuminate initially when you turn on the electrics, even if you had just turned the engine off after a journey where the engine had got up to temperature.  Good luck and post back with your findings, there's plenty of helpful folk on here 

[Ken cats]

Thanks Damian, I couldn't remember whether the glowplug light on the dash should come on every time or not. I had the car out today and noticed mine isn't coming on after the engine is warm. The car is going into the garage in the morning to get the bonnet catch fixed so it can then have a diagnostics done on it. I tried to do the bonnet catch myself but didn't have the strength in my hands to give it a good poke! 

It looks like you have the same model of car as mine. A lovely motor, be even better once she stops her party tricks :)

Thank you all for your comments and help, I'll report back once I know something concrete.

[FatHead1979]

No worries, although the 1.8 TDCI isn't quite a 'refined' as the 2.0 TDCI it does have the benefit of not having a DPF and the head is cast iron rather than aluminium so it's rather 'sturdy'

[mjt]

Hi Kenny, we had a Mk 1.5 with the 115ps 1.8TDCi engine, ran it for 7 years & sold it with 120K on the clock. It was one of the most reliable cars we've ever owned.

I would doubt that your problem is glow plugs. Ours ran fine with 3 out of the 4 dead. It just needed a bit more cranking to start on cold mornings. After I fitted new ones I didn't notice a major improvement.

While investigating the glow plugs I discovered that the glow plug light doesn't actually bear any relation to the power to the plugs. It always went off in less than a second but I measured voltage on the plugs for 5 seconds. On cold mornings I used to wait about 4 seconds between turning the ignition on and cranking the engine.

The main reason we got rid in the end was that the DMF was showing signs of getting loose. I decided to go back to petrol as the emission controls on modern diesels impact too heavily on the economics.

[Ken cats]

Update...Many many thanks to the guys who have replied to this topic and tried to help. Very much appreciated.

The car went in for the specialist diagnostic yesterday - and the news wasn't good! They said the car needs a complete new fuel system fitted at an estimated £2k repair bill. They found shards of metal in the fuel filter housing and deduced that the fuel pump is disintegrating ( a new one 45k ago! ) They showed me the metal in the casing and said the entire fuel system is trashed. Even with a complete rebuild it may never be right. 

So my brief venture into the world of Ford has come to an end , as much as I liked the car it's time is up. Of course I am furious that I was sold a right lemon, and the private seller now denies any knowledge - big surprise that one! 

Many genuine thanks to you all for your time and kind help. 

[Ken cats]

Update...Many many thanks to the guys who have replied to this topic and tried to help. Very much appreciated.

The car went in for the specialist diagnostic yesterday - and the news wasn't good! They said the car needs a complete new fuel system fitted at an estimated £2k repair bill. They found shards of metal in the fuel filter housing and deduced that the fuel pump is disintegrating ( a new one 45k ago! ) They showed me the metal in the casing and said the entire fuel system is trashed. Even with a complete rebuild it may never be right. 

So my brief venture into the world of Ford has come to an end , as much as I liked the car it's time is up. Of course I am furious that I was sold a right lemon, and the private seller now denies any knowledge - big surprise that one! 

Many genuine thanks to you all for your time and kind help. 

[mikeyd1]

2 hours ago, Ken cats said:

Update...Many many thanks to the guys who have replied to this topic and tried to help. Very much appreciated.

The car went in for the specialist diagnostic yesterday - and the news wasn't good! They said the car needs a complete new fuel system fitted at an estimated £2k repair bill. They found shards of metal in the fuel filter housing and deduced that the fuel pump is disintegrating ( a new one 45k ago! ) They showed me the metal in the casing and said the entire fuel system is trashed. Even with a complete rebuild it may never be right. 

So my brief venture into the world of Ford has come to an end , as much as I liked the car it's time is up. Of course I am furious that I was sold a right lemon, and the private seller now denies any knowledge - big surprise that one! 

Many genuine thanks to you all for your time and kind help. 

Sorry to hear ur bad news mate. What goes around comes around ur end up with something nice and when u so give us all on here a update. Take care

[FatHead1979]

Sorry to hear the news mate, you're REALLY unlucky to have an issue with the fuel system on a MK2 1.8 TDCi, makes me wonder if the replacement pump was a pattern part rather than genuine.

Don't forgot to let us all know what you move on to.

[Tdci-Peter]

5 hours ago, Ken cats said:

The car went in for the specialist diagnostic yesterday - and the news wasn't good! They said the car needs a complete new fuel system fitted at an estimated £2k repair bill.

Worth a second opinion?

If the service in October included a new filter then metal shards may be rather more incriminating, but even so I would ask further questions. I think that on these cars (on mine, for sure), any metal from the pump would go into the fuel tank before any could reach the filter. On my car, the return line from pump & injectors goes straight back to the tank.

I hope they did much more thorough testing than just that old bogeyman of metal in the filter. Injector leak back, pump pressure performance under varying rpm, monitoring and testing the IMV, and the PRV, and cross calibrating the pressure sensor, just for starters.

Think of how many processes & places the fuel you buy has been through. Any debris will accumulate in the filter. On its own that does not seem enough evidence to me for a 2k bill, or for scrapping a 10 year old car.

But it is your call, of course. If you feel the specialist was trustworthy and competent, then new pump, high pressure pipework & injectors would be that sort of cost. (Unless you had the equipment, experience and nerve to do it yourself with 2nd hand bits, but that is a major & risky undertaking)