Battery Problems.

[welshswan]

Hello! Didn't think I would need to sign up here as I hoped my problems were solved but along comes the cold weather, bang goes my battery! I had a new battery fitted in January last year after my old battery (which was the original battery that came with the Fiesta Style 07 model) died on me and my garage fitted a new one. On my mother's birthday in November last year, the new battery went, called the breakdown company out and they tested the alternator and checked the charge on the battery and everything was fine. The guy said that some cars just cannot handle the cold weather and battery issues happen from time to time. Fast forward about a month later and again, my battery was dead. This was after doing loads of running around on the day, the car had been fine all day then when I picked my mother up from hospital it was totally dead when I went to start it. Luckily there was a garage across the road so one of the guys came over and jump started it for me but advised me to get the car booked in for it to be checked.

I booked the car in for them to check the battery and everything, they said all was fine and they couldn't see an issue. It has been fine since but then today, picked my cousin up from school then went to Tesco and when I came out to start the car the battery was dead again. The breakdown guy I called out this time said there must be a fault with the battery as when he jump started it and then tested the battery the battery was showing a full charge. I am totally confused and don't know what to do, whether to go back to my original garage and ask for a replacement battery or take it to somewhere that perhaps specialises in batteries and electronics to see if there is an underlying issue causing this to happen. Any advice would be much appreciated! Thanks!

[Stoney871]

Is it a silver calcium battery?
If not then it's the wrong type.

Sent from my SM-G930F

[welshswan]

12 minutes ago, Stoney871 said:

Is it a silver calcium battery?
If not then it's the wrong type.

Sent from my SM-G930F
 

Oh God I am not sure, having looked at a silver calcium battery online it doesn't look like the one I have now but I will have to check in the morning and report back! If it is the wrong battery, I'll be taking it back up my garage and asking for a replacement free of charge I think.

[Stoney871]

Keep us posted.

[Damien]

Hi there,

if it turns out it is the correct battery fitted I would recommend you get someone who deals with electrics etc as you suggested.

going by what your saying in your first post the original battery could have just seen it's days. But if the correct battery's has been supplied to you now then there has to be some issue as to why there not holding there full charge.i would get all wiring ect checked mate to battery & alternator obviously alternator not the issue here as you said it's been checked but would get wiring checked.

best of luck hope you get it sorted

[Tdci-Peter]

On 02/12/2016 at 11:15 PM, welshswan said:

having looked at a silver calcium battery online it doesn't look like the one I have now

The battery type is not always clear. The Bosch S4 & S5 series are both fine, in fact usually regarded as the best available. Yuasa clearly state their batteries are 100% compatible with a Ford Silver-Calcium, and they are a major, reputable manufacturer.

To get it clear, if I have read this right: The battery you are now using was fitted in Jan 2015, and has suddenly failed on at least 3 occasions since then, and sprung back to life again. And the alternator has been tested a couple of times by garages.

There could be a bad connection in one of the battery cables. This should have been checked by the garage, but they may not have been very thorough. It is necessary to feel and bend the (big) wires near each terminal point, as well as looking for tight, clean connections. If the cables are ok, then there could be an intermittent fault inside the battery. There are quite a number of electrical connections in it. I had one go from working fine, to dead as a dodo in an instant once. A new battery would be only only answer to that. Bosch, Yuasa & Varta are probably the best makes.

(Yuasa statement: http://www.yuasa.co.uk/info/technical/silver-calcium-batteries/)

[Lenny]

I highly recommend Bosch S4 or alternatively The Bosch S5 if your vehicle is stop&start technology.

I'm running dual dash cams, rear 10"screen, tv tuner, WiFi router, 1 fared capacitor auxilary lighting and two 400W class D amplifiers from my 1.6TDCi focus using a Bosch S4 👍

[m1tch]

If it's not a Bosch S4/5, upgrade to them, never failed in any of the cars I have had them in.

[isetta]

why does it have to be a silver calcium battery?

[alexp999]

11 minutes ago, isetta said:

why does it have to be a silver calcium battery?

It's to do with the charging system Ford use.

A non-silver-calcium battery will be damaged and cause all sorts of electrical oddities.

[welshswan]

Thanks for all the replies! I have now booked my car into a garage my aunt has used for the last 30 odd years, I should have taken it there last November to be honest but have been going to my regular garage ever since I passed my test, they rebuilt my starter motor on my old fiesta when that went and saved me from paying for a new one so being the sentimental sap that I am I thought I would try and stay with them but I hate to say the quality of their work has gone down hill over the past couple of years. From what I understand when I took it in to get checked out last November they didn't do any major checks ie all the wiring and such but just kept going back and forth to the car throughout the day and starting it and it started fine everytime so they said nothing could be wrong. 

From what I know they checked the alternator, having looked online when I have my lights on and I press the accelerator the lights go brighter so I am making the assumption that the alternator is fine but will ask if it can be checked anyway. I am so disappointed with this car though I have to say, I had an old ford fiesta 02 and I LOVED that car. Apart from the starter motor issue I had no major problems with it at all and she was my pride and joy, this one has had a coil spring break (5 days after I bought it, was that a warning or what?), battery problems, exhaust problems, brake disc issues... I just HOPE this issue isn't something major! Will keep popping on and informing you all of what is going on, maybe this will be useful for others if people are having similar issues. 

[TotallyTonto]

On ‎05‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 2:17 PM, alexp999 said:

It's to do with the charging system Ford use.

A non-silver-calcium battery will be damaged and cause all sorts of electrical oddities.

Really? didn't know what. Out of interest do you know what is different about the Ford charging system that causes it?

[Tdci-Peter]

On 12/6/2016 at 9:46 PM, TotallyTonto said:

Out of interest do you know what is different about the Ford charging system that causes it?

No!

I know it is more complex than older generation charging systems, but the actual details of what it does are hidden in a mist of obscurity. I have monitored my system for some time, on occasions, and not noticed anything much different. It charges at about 14.2v (indicated in car, may be say 0.3v to 0.5v below actual battery voltage) most of the time. The only change I did see was when hot (climbing a long hill), it did cut back below 14v for a bit.

Silver Calcium batteries are just another slight variant on the standard lead-acid battery, but they have a slightly higher nominal charge voltage, at 14.8v, compared to about 14.4v. So this, if sustained, will over-charge, overheat and damage a battery of the wrong type. I have never seen my car put out voltages that high. But then I have not always been looking!

One thing that I do know is that the pcm (ECU) is involved. This is where the pwm control lines to/from the alternator go. And pcms are made by different vendors, and vary greatly from engine to engine. So I would expect differences in the charging system on different engine types, as the software will inevitably be different.

The system on the Mk3 Focus is different again. It is a lot more complex, with a current, temperature & voltage sensing chip (BMS) on the battery, and fully digital (LIN bus) connections to the alternator. It is optimised for start-stop and regenerative charging operation.

The PDF below gives some info on the Mk1/Mk2/2a Focus system, but is rather vague about any real details.

https://www.fordownersclub.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=45412

 

[welshswan]

2 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

No!

I know it is more complex than older generation charging systems, but the actual details of what it does are hidden in a mist of obscurity. I have monitored my system for some time, on occasions, and not noticed anything much different. It charges at about 14.2v (indicated in car, may be say 0.3v to 0.5v below actual battery voltage) most of the time. The only change I did see was when hot (climbing a long hill), it did cut back below 14v for a bit.

Silver Calcium batteries are just another slight variant on the standard lead-acid battery, but they have a slightly higher nominal charge voltage, at 14.8v, compared to about 14.4v. So this, if sustained, will over-charge, overheat and damage a battery of the wrong type. I have never seen my car put out voltages that high. But then I have not always been looking!

One thing that I do know is that the pcm (ECU) is involved. This is where the pwm control lines to/from the alternator go. And pcms are made by different vendors, and vary greatly from engine to engine. So I would expect differences in the charging system on different engine types, as the software will inevitably be different.

The system on the Mk3 Focus is different again. It is a lot more complex, with a current, temperature & voltage sensing chip (BMS) on the battery, and fully digital (LIN bus) connections to the alternator. It is optimised for start-stop and regenerative charging operation.

The PDF below gives some info on the Mk1/Mk2/2a Focus system, but is rather vague about any real details.

 

Ford_smart_charge_system.pdf

Sorry to ask a silly question but how do I know if my car has the smart charge system or not? At the moment I am seriously debating whether it might be best for me to get a voucher for a new Ford from my grandad as he is entitled to them and get a new Fiesta as all the issues I've had with this car have racked up to a fair bit of money being spent on it in the last couple of years. Heck, I might even consider not getting a Ford again as I keep being told Asian models are better and more reliable but I've been a Ford girl for 10 years ever since I passed and I do like how the Fiesta drives, this one is lovely but I have no faith in it whatsover in terms of reliability.

[Tdci-Peter]

27 minutes ago, welshswan said:

how do I know if my car has the smart charge system or not?

Ford introduced it in about 1998, so the Mk6 (5th generation, 2002 to 2008) Fiesta probably has it, and all later ones.

The Alternator has a three pin plug on it, as well as the heavy main cable.

Disconnecting that 3 pin plug can diagnose some faults. If the alternator is ok, it should default to a flat 13.8v output. (Only connect or disconnect with ignition off).

I think reliability is down to luck more than make. I looked at insurance reliability tables before getting my current car in 2011, figures were all over the place. Some Fords came quite high up. Japanese makes were at the top, but also many Japanese cars were way down the list. I chose Ford because spares are often cheaper (older cars will always need some!), there is quite a lot of technical info about, and Ford sites like this one seem better than for many other makes. I have had lots of problems, but none (so far!) have cost a lot to fix.

[TotallyTonto]

Great info Tdci-Peter. Thanks :-)

[welshswan]

So this is going to sound unbelievable but I swear to God it is true! Got in the car tonight, started absolutely fine then as I pulled off I noticed a horrible clunking sound, none of the warning lights came on but I knew something was wrong. Pulled over, kept the engine running and started pressing the brake, fine, accelerator, fine. Kept the engine on and popped the bonnet to see if anything was noticeable, that seemed fine, checked the tyres, all fine, when I got back in and turned the wheel though the horrendous noise was back! I am assuming it's either a spring or a problem with the drive shaft....What an absolute nightmare!

[GaryPL]

On 07/12/2016 at 1:21 AM, welshswan said:

Sorry to ask a silly question but how do I know if my car has the smart charge system or not? At the moment I am seriously debating whether it might be best for me to get a voucher for a new Ford from my grandad as he is entitled to them and get a new Fiesta as all the issues I've had with this car have racked up to a fair bit of money being spent on it in the last couple of years. Heck, I might even consider not getting a Ford again as I keep being told Asian models are better and more reliable but I've been a Ford girl for 10 years ever since I passed and I do like how the Fiesta drives, this one is lovely but I have no faith in it whatsover in terms of reliability.

If you're hoping a mk7.5 Fiesta is going to be the silver bullet to all of your problems, think again. They have plenty of their own issues, as I'm finding out!

[welshswan]

11 hours ago, GaryPL said:

If you're hoping a mk7.5 Fiesta is going to be the silver bullet to all of your problems, think again. They have plenty of their own issues, as I'm finding out!

Thanks for the warning! I am in a pickle as it stands, my mother was on the high rate of mobility allowance but her appeal is not being heard until January where we hope it will be reinstalled. I have to tax this car this month and my insurance on this car is up next month so as it stands I might nurse this through until the new year and wait to see what the outcome of the mobility hearing will be. I just hope whatever the issue is with the steering it is something minor and not a major issue, the battery issue as it stands right now is secondary as I will definitely be getting rid of this car asap!

PS All I have done is moan about Ford on this thread! I am aware that I have probably just been very unlucky with this car and supremely lucky with the first Fiesta Finesse I bought back in 2004, I finally got rid a couple of years ago as come winter time it took ages to demist the car and heat it up and my mother got a pay out from a PPI claim and basically said it was time for me to get a new car and I agreed. It was well looked after and as I said earlier, a lovely thing to drive and I was so sorry to get rid of it so Ford's aren't all rubbish! 

[Tdci-Peter]

16 minutes ago, welshswan said:

just hope whatever the issue is with the steering it is something minor

If you posted detailed symptoms of the steering problem here, like: Does the car need to be moving or in gear, or does it happen when turning the wheel in neutral, is it equal in both directions, etc, and maybe a video with audio track, it is possible someone could give some advice as to the cause.

If it happens in neutral, then a broken spring is more likely than driveshafts.

I think cars generally have gone downhill in recent years, but Ford perhaps more so. Manufacturers are caught between a rock and a hard place. Ever more gimmicks and techno-wizardry are asked for by new car buyers, but global regulations on emissions, economy and other issues get ever tougher. It demands engineering of the highest calibre to combine these while keeping cost down and reliability up, and it does seem to me that Ford are not managing this well.

Fords were never regarded as the world's most reliable cars, but they were often nice to drive, and economical to repair and service. This was a winning combination. Not sure it is winning so much now though! Just my opinion, it would be interesting to see if anyone else disagrees, or agrees.

[welshswan]

39 minutes ago, Tdci-Peter said:

If you posted detailed symptoms of the steering problem here, like: Does the car need to be moving or in gear, or does it happen when turning the wheel in neutral, is it equal in both directions, etc, and maybe a video with audio track, it is possible someone could give some advice as to the cause.

If it happens in neutral, then a broken spring is more likely than driveshafts.

I think cars generally have gone downhill in recent years, but Ford perhaps more so. Manufacturers are caught between a rock and a hard place. Ever more gimmicks and techno-wizardry are asked for by new car buyers, but global regulations on emissions, economy and other issues get ever tougher. It demands engineering of the highest calibre to combine these while keeping cost down and reliability up, and it does seem to me that Ford are not managing this well.

Fords were never regarded as the world's most reliable cars, but they were often nice to drive, and economical to repair and service. This was a winning combination. Not sure it is winning so much now though! Just my opinion, it would be interesting to see if anyone else disagrees, or agrees.

I didn't even think of making a video as I was so annoyed! I noticed it when I went to move off but at first assumed it was something underneath the car like a bottle or something (people drop crap on the road all the time so I thought it was just something underneath one of the tyres at first). I drove to the end of my road then pulled up and called my grandad (he worked in Fords for 40 years so always ask him for advice). Short version, the noise was happening when the engine was on and I went to move the wheel in neutral, it sounded very similar to the noise that was made when my front coil spring broke about 5 days after buying the car but not as bad but then the spring on the tyre broke. My issue is now how to get it up to the garage as I have reached my limit on breakdown callouts and don't think it is wise to drive it so I will ring my garage in the morning to see if they can send someone out to take a look. 

[welshswan]

My grandad owes me 20 pounds, he said it was something in my drive shaft and I was right, it was a coil spring. Half of which I have in my handbag right now and might make into a bracelet as a memory of this car. My grandad blamed me until the mechanic pointed out it was actually wear and tear which caused it to break in the end, very rusted and there was a huge fracture running through it so I am amazed it has lasted. I am now going to wait until after Xmas to make up my mind over whether to get rid or keep the car for the time being.

[welshswan]

I should also add that with regards to my original issue with the battery I am NOT telling my regular garage as they told me all was fine last time so I am still taking it to my aunt's garage, hopefully this side of Xmas but that now depends on how long the coil spring takes to fix. I should hopefully have it back by tomorrow or Friday at the latest depending on how quickly they can get a new one for me, this issue for now has had to take precedence over the battery but I will still be having the battery checked out! Apologies for the comedy of errors so far!

[welshswan]

I should also add that with regards to my original issue with the battery I am NOT telling my regular garage as they told me all was fine last time so I am still taking it to my aunt's garage, hopefully this side of Xmas but that now depends on how long the coil spring takes to fix. I should hopefully have it back by tomorrow or Friday at the latest depending on how quickly they can get a new one for me, this issue for now has had to take precedence over the battery but I will still be having the battery checked out! Apologies for the comedy of errors so far!