EGR options

[orangeboy]

My Focus has thrown up a fault relating to the EGR valve.

The garage have called to say they will have a go at cleaning it, but if that fails then it's a £1000 plus bill fora new inlet manifold / EGR.

Are there any other options? I can't really afford that kind of money.

Annoying thing is it's been blanked.

Brian.

[dezwez]

go else were if the EGR has gone you would just replace that there taking the p***

[DJ_Andy_M]

Get one from a scrappers. Give it a good clean with carb cleaner and stick it on the car or take your exisiting one off and give that a good clean. It's a messy job but I've done it a couple of times with excellent results.

[Tdci-Peter]

4 hours ago, orangeboy said:

The garage have called to say they will have a go at cleaning it, but if that fails then it's a £1000 plus bill fora new inlet manifold / EGR.

Nine times out of ten, it will be the actuator, not the valve itself.

The actuator is dead easy to remove, test, repair or replace. Just take off the plastic panels under the wipers, four bolts hold the actuator to the valve, and a little bracket has to be removed.

The actuator can now be purchased alone, for about £100.

The valve itself is a huge job, turbo, both manifolds, etc etc.

If the valve really was jammed, but blanked, it would probably be possible to destroy the coupling from actuator to valve, and refit it. The actuator must work, it is tested at each turn off of the engine. The valve movement itself does not matter.

I did a pdf about repairing my EGR: http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=38763

An eBay ref to the actuator (1st I found, no particular recommendation!):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EGR-VALVE-For-FORD-Focus-Galaxy-Mondeo-4-S-Max-Transit-1-8-TDCi-1668578-1352475-/272057199632?hash=item3f57df6c10:g:TAAAAOSwUV9WpUC5

(Note title may say "valve", this is wrong, the pictured part is just the actuator.)

 

[orangeboy]

Really appreciate the replies. It's not been the best of starts to 2017 between one thing and another!

My car is a 1.8tdci, and it's been in the Ford dealership today. The fault code showing up is PO409. They have tried cleaning the EGR and checked all the wiring etc but no joy, and I'm £216 lighter for their trouble.

They have quoted £1096 for a new monifold / EGR fitted and I simply can't afford that.

One option that sprung to mind was having the EGR deleted from the ECU. I'm not sure what the cost of that would be but surely can't be as much as a new EGR.

I'm at the stage now I don't know what to do. Leave it? Repair it? Sell it? Trouble is I can't really afford a new car at the minute.

Friday 13th strikes again!

[ajzetecs]

Take my advice and get in deleted of the ecu, i was having issues with mine, was jerking a bit but when cleaned with spray was ok for a few weeks until crap built up, had new remap and egr removal. Was only £100 for remap, plug in job but its amazing. Save your packing in at an inconvenient time and will run better with more mpg

[biff55]

i'd avoid further dealings with this ford dealer personally , they are just quoting telephone numbers for repair prices and will only consider by the book repairs and like for like replacements.

find a decent independant garage who may offer other "non approved" yet cheaper alternatives for fixing the fault

[ajzetecs]

12 minutes ago, biff55 said:

i'd avoid further dealings with this ford dealer personally , they are just quoting telephone numbers for repair prices and will only consider by the book repairs and like for like replacements.

find a decent independant garage who may offer other "non approved" yet cheaper alternatives for fixing the fault

I agree with you there mate were going to charge me £600 to replace both rear arm bushes 

[south_bound]

I would agree with deleting the EGR from the ECU.  I got mine done for about £150 I think, including the blanking plate and solved all the problems and improved performance and fuel consumption.  Stick to the specialists though, who do this type of work day in day out - I would recommend Avon Tuning if you are near Bristol though they also supply and serve other dealers across the country I believe.

[ajzetecs]

15 minutes ago, south_bound said:

I would agree with deleting the EGR from the ECU.  I got mine done for about £150 I think, including the blanking plate and solved all the problems and improved performance and fuel consumption.  Stick to the specialists though, who do this type of work day in day out - I would recommend Avon Tuning if you are near Bristol though they also supply and serve other dealers across the country I believe.

I never put blanking plate on, is there need to do it or not, thought egr removal was the same as blanking it

[Tdci-Peter]

4 hours ago, orangeboy said:

One option that sprung to mind was having the EGR deleted from the ECU.

It could be more expensive than fixing the actuator. And you are utterly reliant on the competence of the re-mapping / re-programming of the ECU. The software in these units is extremely complex and critical. I have heard good and bad reports about re-mapping efforts. And this may need re-programming (altering the software code), rather than just some numbers in a map table.

I agree that replacing the valve is not an option, and is not needed. But I remain suspicious of all the companies offering to tamper with ECUs. Every model of every make car is different, it has to be done right for that car. You would need to ensure the remap had been tested on other 1.8TDCIs of very similar vintage, to have any confidence that it would work.

If you go that route, look for independent testimony from owners of near identical engines & ECUs. If it was combined with a power upgrade, then it might well be more worth the effort, and some extra cost.

[ayup]

i fitted a blanking plate on mine when i first got it about 4 or 5 months ago , the plate cost a couple of quid off eBay i didnt delete anything from the ecu and have had no problems with it whatsoever but getting quoted a grand is daylight robbery

and as an after thought if the egr valve is cream crackered why would they need to replace the inlet manifold

Edited January 14, 2017 by ayup
forgot to add something

[orangeboy]

The EGR is built into the manifold, so must be a complete unit. I think I'm correct in saying that it also uses the same fixings as the exhaust manifold/turbo do its quite an involved job and not one I would consider on my driveway.

Even if I had £1096 sitting doing nothing, I'm not sure I'd like to spend it on this.

Peter, the actuator you talked about, did you have to but any gaskets etc? My engine is a 1.8 TDCI "Lynx", and it looks like there is easy access to this part.

The really annoying thing is I blanked the EGR about 3 years ago, without issue until now.

Thanks once again for the replies, appreciated.

[orangeboy]

The EGR is built into the manifold, so must be a complete unit. I think I'm correct in saying that it also uses the same fixings as the exhaust manifold/turbo do its quite an involved job and not one I would consider on my driveway.

Even if I had £1096 sitting doing nothing, I'm not sure I'd like to spend it on this.

Peter, the actuator you talked about, did you have to but any gaskets etc? My engine is a 1.8 TDCI "Lynx", and it looks like there is easy access to this part.

The really annoying thing is I blanked the EGR about 3 years ago, without issue until now.

Thanks once again for the replies, appreciated.

[orangeboy]

19 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

It could be more expensive than fixing the actuator. And you are utterly reliant on the competence of the re-mapping / re-programming of the ECU. 

This is one thing that puts me off going down that route.

If I fit a new actuator, I assume it doesn't need programming or coding to the car?

One other remedy I was thinking of was that if the mechanical valve was stuck or sticky, and I could not free this off, then it would mean a new manifold. If I was to modify the quadrant gear on the actuator so it didn't actually make contact with the mechanical valve, but the motor still was able to operate, would this be an option? It would think the valve is opening but it actually wasn't. The only thing that would put a halt on this would be if there was a sensor in the manifold/valve itself or the actuator could detect there wasn't any mechanical resistance so it knew there was something wrong.

I suppose this way the valve would remain closed but maybe thats not such a bad thing.

Do any of you guys know if this is possible?

[Tdci-Peter]

37 minutes ago, orangeboy said:

f I was to modify the quadrant gear on the actuator so it didn't actually make contact with the mechanical valve, but the motor still was able to operate, would this be an option?

Yes.

There is no sensor on the valve side of the link, the sensor is at the cable end of the actuator. The quadrant gear has a spring return built in, and works just fine without the valve. The valve, apart from at its end stops, puts hardly any load or resistance on the actuator. Then it is the same as if the valve was blanked, the actuator moves normally, but has no effect on the gas flows. And, as you already know, the car seems quite happy with that.

I can not see any problem with that. I think it would be possible to remove the cross pin linking actuator to valve. You would need to blank the valve as usual, as the valve may stay open, closed or in between, I do not think there is any spring on it. But this would not matter with the plate in.

I have had the actuator off my EGR at least 3 times, to repair the sensor, and to repair the connections to the motor in two different places. I have never found any problems with the valve.

No gaskets were needed. I think I used a smear of silicone grease or sealant to re-seal the joint, but it is not hyper critical, it is only air, and a tiny leak would have no effect.

[Tdci-Peter]

On 14/01/2017 at 6:35 PM, orangeboy said:

actuator could detect there wasn't any mechanical resistance so it knew there was something wrong.

I have thought of one little potential pitfall with my previous reply.

The "closed" position will change.

The quadrant gear stops in both directions, but in the closing direction it must stop on the valve being fully shut before the quadrant gear hits its end stop. So without the valve connected it will move a little further. I have looked on the Forscan site, and most cars have a "reset EGR adaptions" procedure, but the Mk2 1.8TDCI does not seem to have this listed. Forscan is pretty good a providing functions that are needed & exist, so it is likely this procedure is not needed, and this car is self adapting to valve variations. It could be the EML may come on for a few start cycles after disconnection of the valve, and then adapt to the new position & accept it.

To verify if this problem exists, I would try a few ignition on/off cycles or start cycles with the actuator removed from the valve (but still electrically connected to the car), prior to any drastic (irreversible) action to the valve. The lack of sealing will not matter as long as the turbo is not revved right up, which will not happen on the driveway anyway.

When I next connect Forscan up to my car, I will check to see if a reset EGR procedure is present.

If the problem is an electrical problem in the actuator, and the valve does not need to be disconnected anyway, then all of this may not be relevant. In that case, the actuator will have to be repaired or replaced to cure the EML & DTC problem.

[orangeboy]

Just thought I'd give an update on this issue.

I decided to purchase a new actuator as i didn't have the confidence to take the old one apart.

When fitting it the valve itself was fine and i could open and close it by hand. So no stuck valve as the Ford Dealership suggested.

Since fitting the new actuator I've had no issues and no EML, but I'm still not counting my chickens, just yet.

It was an aftermarket part, and I'm not sure Ford sell the actuator separately.

Thanks to TDCI Peter, you probably saved me the best part of £1000.

And as for the Ford Dealership, well I now use an independent.

Brian